I feel just horrible

[EasterJoy]

Well, I have been invited to friend’s house for supper and the husband invited their friend. It was obvious it was a set up neither me or the guy new about. And it was plain awkward. Nothing embarrasses me more than a man trying to get to know me with other people watching

Oh…I did not mean they were supposed to spring this on either of you! That is not a nice thing to do to a teenager, let alone to adults. I also do not mean they were supposed to throw you two together as dedicated conversational partners for some entire event, something they got to gawk at as if they were running a social experiment. I mean that it is better to have a chance to check each other out from a distance first, have yourselves introduced, maybe have a ten minute conversation, and if you keep talking, great, and if you don’t,* everybody leaves you alone about it.* Your friends give you each the contact information of the other (just in case, so you can have it without nosy questions about whether you want it or not), and you two take or do not take it from there. Rarely, however, do friends do so much with so little pressure on those they are trying to set up with someone.

My dad used to have to have a shirt in his closet for about six months before he wanted to wear it. Not to make people into objects, but some of us are like that with friends. We warm up slowly. We come out of our burrows gradually. We want to know someone as an acquaintance for awhile first, and then feel free to* warm up* to the idea of becoming closer friends–or not. It isn’t very “efficient” when it comes to dating, but that is just how some of us operate emotionally.

Whatever *your *emotional style is, choose your dating opportunities with that in mind.

 

[Xantippe]

Personally, I think its pretty bad. No reason to be such a cold person to a guy on a first date whom you describe as genuine with a good heart. Totally unnecessary and plenty of other ways to handle it that are less…well…socially cruel.

Our OP is socially awkward and knows she committed a faux pas. She feels bad about the situation. She’s wondering how to do this better, but she doesn’t know how to do it better, which is why she’s asking for advice.

 

[Miss_Felicity]

I just wanted to throw in, that in my experience shorter first dates tend to go a bit smoother. Before I met my intended I would suggest lunch dates or dessert and coffee. Some of my most awkward dates were long dinner dates but if things aren’t clicking over coffee and desert, your not stuck there for nearly as long. On the other hand if it is working you can stretch coffee, deserts, and appetizers really far to finish conversation.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Yeah I agree with others that your date ending was a little cold on your part.

Other than that sounds like a typical date with someone you didn’t click with.

I also suggest going for coffee. That was my husband and I’s first date. We so enjoyed ourselves that the next day we planned for a movie (we saw Hitch which was a romantic comedy 10 years ago…lol! ). Then we walked along a picturesque cannal and just enjoyed holding hands and walking. We shared our first kiss then and the rest is history! Nine years of marriage and counting…all thanks to good old coffee!

 

[Kelfa28]

I just wanted to throw in, that in my experience shorter first dates tend to go a bit smoother. Before I met my intended I would suggest lunch dates or dessert and coffee. Some of my most awkward dates were long dinner dates but if things aren’t clicking over coffee and desert, your not stuck there for nearly as long. On the other hand if it is working you can stretch coffee, deserts, and appetizers really far to finish conversation.

Exactly.

I didn’t like going for the big dinner date until date number 2 or 3. It’s hard when the conversation goes south and suddenly…the waitress is seemingly no where to be found!

I do like bar dates too. Either early afternoon on a Saturday or during the weekdays. It’s the same thing as coffee…it can be really low key and inexpensive (of course, if you only buy one or two drinks).

The key to bar dates is going to a bar where you a friends with the bartender and it’s not busy. They can help keep an eye on you!

 

[underacloud]

Anglewannabe,

Bad dates are horrible. You feel horrible because you have a bad date, not because you acted badly IMO. Could you have acted better? I’m not entirely sure how.

I mean this in all sincerity. How could I have handled it better?

I might be going out on a limb here, but I really think you handled it pretty well; about as well as possible.

Some people have said the way you ended it was pretty cold. Sure. Maybe some people are blessed with a capacity to find exactly the right words in such a situation. For most people, we don’t have the right words, and mentally fumble about trying to say something nice but in the end just sounding insincere (eg “It’s not you, it’s me”…yeah right).

But sometimes a cold ending is what is needed. In short, you left him with no false hope, and that’s about the best thing any man can ask for after a date with a woman who has simply no interest in him. He sounds like a nice guy, and you’ve spared him from wasting any more time pursuing a woman with no interest in him. Say a prayer for him and move on.

BTW how did you come to be on a date with him? Was it via mutual friends? If so, it will not be hard to make sure he hears back via these friends that you thought he was a lovely guy, but just didn’t feel a connection. Or something to that effect, so that he doesn’t feel too horrible about being rejected (which is unfortunately a natural part of dating).

 

[Xantippe]

Anglewannabe,

Bad dates are horrible. You feel horrible because you have a bad date, not because you acted badly IMO. Could you have acted better? I’m not entirely sure how.

I might be going out on a limb here, but I really think you handled it pretty well; about as well as possible.

Some people have said the way you ended it was pretty cold. Sure. Maybe some people are blessed with a capacity to find exactly the right words in such a situation. For most people, we don’t have the right words, and mentally fumble about trying to say something nice but in the end just sounding insincere (eg “It’s not you, it’s me”…yeah right).

But sometimes a cold ending is what is needed. In short, you left him with no false hope, and that’s about the best thing any man can ask for after a date with a woman who has simply no interest in him. He sounds like a nice guy, and you’ve spared him from wasting any more time pursuing a woman with no interest in him. Say a prayer for him and move on.

BTW how did you come to be on a date with him? Was it via mutual friends? If so, it will not be hard to make sure he hears back via these friends that you thought he was a lovely guy, but just didn’t feel a connection. Or something to that effect, so that he doesn’t feel too horrible about being rejected (which is unfortunately a natural part of dating).

Right.

 

[Anglewannabe]

BTW how did you come to be on a date with him? Was it via mutual friends? If so, it will not be hard to make sure he hears back via these friends that you thought he was a lovely guy, but just didn’t feel a connection. Or something to that effect, so that he doesn’t feel too horrible about being rejected (which is unfortunately a natural part of dating).

It wasn’t really through friends. It is someone I would consider an acquaintance at work and I don’t know how well she knows him or if it is a friend of a friend. If I see this acquaintance, I will be honest and say ‘He seemed like a good guy and I just was not interested and I didn’t want to put him through trying to impress me when he just was not going to succeed’

Now that I had a chance to sleep on it, I see it a bit differently. I have not been in a good job for over 3 years. And I can not count how many resumes I have sent out and interviews I have gone on only to be rejected. And I am in tremendous amount of pain constantly being rejected from what I desperately want. So I guess I was just projecting all my hurt feelings onto this guy and assumed he takes rejection as hard as I do.

Also, growing up, I was always the misfit and I still know I have a lot of healing to do about that. So being in a restaurant with a man (like I said I have not done something like that in years) I felt like a fish out of water. Just the way the waiter was explaining all the specials like the wine (and I don’t drink) or the spices (which I never heard about ) used in certain I dishes, I really had no idea what the waiter was talking about. I felt like the little girl who just didn’t know how to fit it. I think it brought back some feelings I stuffed rather than dealt with positively.

The upside for me is I now know what to write about in my dairy and pray about to God

Angie

 

[Xantippe]

Now that I had a chance to sleep on it, I see it a bit differently. I have not been in a good job for over 3 years. And I can not count how many resumes I have sent out and interviews I have gone on only to be rejected. And I am in tremendous amount of pain constantly being rejected from what I desperately want. So I guess I was just projecting all my hurt feelings onto this guy and assumed he takes rejection as hard as I do.

That’s insightful.

Also, growing up, I was always the misfit and I still know I have a lot of healing to do about that. So being in a restaurant with a man (like I said I have not done something like that in years) I felt like a fish out of water. Just the way the waiter was explaining all the specials like the wine (and I don’t drink) or the spices (which I never heard about ) used in certain I dishes, I really had no idea what the waiter was talking about. I felt like the little girl who just didn’t know how to fit it. I think it brought back some feelings I stuffed rather than dealt with positively.

That sounds scary!

In future, you could look up the menu online (if it’s available) and do a little “studying” so that ordering is not as intimidating a process.

Oh, come to think of it, telling your date, “Could you order for me?” (while risky), would save you the anxiety and he might even like it. “What’s good?” is the lower-key version of this. That way, you’re showing respect for his judgment, as well as avoiding the stress of navigating foodie weirdness.

The only downside that I can see is that it might be misleading as to your personality, as it’s kind of a flirty, girly thing to do and you’re more what-you-see-is-what-you-get (if I’m reading you correctly).

Of course, if you have any food issues, that’s probably off the table.

Good luck!

 

[Xantippe]

On a lighter note, here’s the “Is the chicken local?” sketch from Portlandia.

youtube.com/watch?v=ErRHJlE4PGI

 

[Anglewannabe]

That sounds scary!

Scary? In the sense I really don’t get out a lot? Or in the sense anyone in my situation would feel the same

The only downside that I can see is that it might be misleading as to your personality, as it’s kind of a flirty, girly thing to do and you’re more what-you-see-is-what-you-get (if I’m reading you correctly).

You are right on that one. I would take strong offense to someone who ordered for me

 

[EasterJoy]

It wasn’t really through friends. It is someone I would consider an acquaintance at work and I don’t know how well she knows him or if it is a friend of a friend. If I see this acquaintance, I will be honest and say ‘He seemed like a good guy and I just was not interested and I didn’t want to put him through trying to impress me when he just was not going to succeed’

Now that I had a chance to sleep on it, I see it a bit differently. I have not been in a good job for over 3 years. And I can not count how many resumes I have sent out and interviews I have gone on only to be rejected. And I am in tremendous amount of pain constantly being rejected from what I desperately want. So I guess I was just projecting all my hurt feelings onto this guy and assumed he takes rejection as hard as I do.

Also, growing up, I was always the misfit and I still know I have a lot of healing to do about that. So being in a restaurant with a man (like I said I have not done something like that in years) I felt like a fish out of water. Just the way the waiter was explaining all the specials like the wine (and I don’t drink) or the spices (which I never heard about ) used in certain I dishes, I really had no idea what the waiter was talking about. I felt like the little girl who just didn’t know how to fit it. I think it brought back some feelings I stuffed rather than dealt with positively.

The upside for me is I now know what to write about in my dairy and pray about to God

Angie

I didn’t want to put him through trying to impress me when he just was not going to succeed

I don’t think I’d put it quite like that. There are truths that can go without articulation, and “he was never going to impress me” is one of them. It is too easy for that to be taken the wrong way.

When she asks “how was it?” just say, “He seems like such a nice guy. I’m not interested in dating him, but I feel as if I was just about the worst date he’s ever had. I felt like everything I said was the wrong thing. I hope he didn’t think I was the rudest person he’d ever met in his life. Please give him my apologies…and Sarah, I’m thinking no more blind dates. I just did not enjoy that at all, I felt like a fish out of water, and if I didn’t enjoy a blind date even with a nice guy like Joe, I’m thinking I should just not go on blind dates. I am never going to do that to another human being for as long as I live, not if I can help it. Please give him my apologies.”

Then say, “no, I do not want to try again. I am not going to try again. I am quite sure Joe will find someone nice, but it is not going to be me. Whatever you do, do NOT try to talk him into that. Thanks, but no. Trust me. No. This time, I’m going to trust my own sense of things, period, and my sense is that Joe is going to make a great dating partner* for someone else*.”

 

[Xantippe]

Scary? In the sense I really don’t get out a lot? Or in the sense anyone in my situation would feel the same

**In the sense that that classic recurring nightmare where you need to take a college exam without having attended the course (not realizing that you had been signed up for the course all along) is scary. **

You are right on that one. I would take strong offense to someone who ordered for me

Too bad! It was such an easy out for you, if you were willing to take it.

 

[chevalier]

I am so humiliated by this situation, I just want to burry my head in the sand.

I was set up on a date. I have not been to a restaurant with a man in Lord knows how long. And needless to say, this guy just did not seem to be someone I would care to have as a boyfriend. However, it was very apparent he was a genuine person with feelings and a good heart.

At first I was polite and going along with the small talk. After a while, I just no longer cared to share anything about myself with him. I think he sensed I was nervous and just kept talking about himself. I suspect he is one of those people who just does not like silence.

The more he talked, the more I felt guilty. This poor man was obviously on his best behaviour and there was just no way he was going to win me over. He asked me if I wanted desert to which I replied ‘I think we should get the bill, should we ask for separate bills’, he said ‘it is OK, I asked you’

So when it was time to leave, I said ‘I am very sorry for any inconvenience I have caused you’ and walked to my car and left.

I feel so bad, but I just did not want to get into a long discussion about making future plans or an akward good bye. I just wanted to leave ASAP. To be honest, I think what I feel the worse about is this poor man ended up paying for my meal. I am not in the best of financial situations so I just assume everybody is as low on cash as me.

Not sure there is anything amends I could possible make here. I almost feel like I need to go to confession here

Angie

He was prepared, you gave him an honest chance, you were still giving him polite and somewhat kind treatment after realizing he was of no immediate interest to you (meaning you respected his worth as a fellow human being, giving him justice for some positive traits of character), you even apologized, and you did nothing to string him and his emotions along. It was all fair, and class act.

EDIT: As for picking up the bill, chances are it allowed him to save some face. It’s man’s thing to do to pick up the tab, and if you let him, you’re letting him be a man.

 

[Xantippe]

EDIT: As for picking up the bill, chances are it allowed him to save some face. It’s man’s thing to do to pick up the tab, and if you let him, you’re letting him be a man.

Eh, there are a lot of misunderstandings about this.

At least in US culture, it’s a HOST’s place to pick up the tab. If I invite somebody out to dinner, be they male, female, or ???, then I need to pay for them, just as if I invited them to my home for dinner I would provide them with a meal free of charge, unless there’s some sort of specific prior agreement to go Dutch or do a potluck.

People get very confused about this and mad about the unfairness of it all, but the rules are actually pretty simple. The reason people believe it’s traditionally the man’s role to pay is that traditionally the man was asking the woman out, and asking out and paying does naturally go together. If one wishes to pay, one should be the one making the initial invitation.

This has been your etiquette minute!

 

[Rico_S]

I mean this in all sincerity. How could I have handled it better?

I guess I would start here:

At first I was polite and going along with the small talk. After a while, I just no longer cared to share anything about myself with him. I think he sensed I was nervous and just kept talking about himself. I suspect he is one of those people who just does not like silence.

So after a few minutes of chatting, you just decided you were done with him? And that was that? (I am a bit curious as to what shut you off…was it his looks, his desire to chat with you, the stories he shared? ) I totally understand that nobody really wants to share their life story and very personal experiences with someone on a first date, even if it goes well, very much less so on a bad date; but your comment makes it sound like its only one extreme or another…either you have to share your inner most personal stories, or you say nothing. That just seems bizarre. Look, if he was a bit of ogre, making crude remarks etc. , then I am all for cutting him off and not participating in conversation… heck get up and leave in the middle of dinner would be warranted in some situations; but this guy was kind with a good heart. I don’t believe this guys deserves that same response simply b/c there is no spark and you decide you are done with him. Even though you have decided he is not boyfriend material, I still feel that you have an obligation to carry on a conversation with guy beyond answering direct questions. (not saying you have to share deep personal details, but one can have a conversation with someone without doing so.)

I’d also like to point out that you seem irritated that he kept talking…asserting that perhaps he is one of those who doesn’t like silence. I think it is more likely that he was talking b/c that is how people get to know one another and he was on a first date. And, to be honest, long stretches of silence on a first date are awkward, especially when one seems intent on ensuring that they happen. Perhaps his talking did go into overdrive as a response to this.

Take this story fwiw, but it is one reason why I posted in this thread. My daughter recently attended prom. She is fairly social, but does not date, and had plans with a bunch of her friends to attend together (apparently, that is how it is done now). Anyway, she ended up getting asked by this very smart, very nice, but very shy guy. She accepted not really knowing that he was interested in her in a romantic way (there were plenty of guys asking girls who were all just friends). My daughter was not interested in him that way and it became an issue. She was making plans with her friends about prom and was reluctant to include her date in the discussion b/c, in her mind, she was sort of done once she found out he liked her. She didn’t want to lead him on and felt all sorts of tremendous pressure, so she just set him aside as though he didn’t exist and would deal with it as it came. I explained that her behavior was unacceptable, she accepted his invitation and this was his prom too. This super nice guy deserved better. We had many many many conversations trying to get her to see that she didn’t need to “like” him romantically to have a fun date, nor does having a fun date mean that she is necessarily leading him on. She doesn’t have to like him, but she has to respect him and his feelings. He isn’t some object that she can cast aside b/c she doesn’t know how.or want to deal with it.

Anyway, I see some similarities here, and coupled with the fact that most posters were saying how everything was handled ok… I felt compelled to jump in.

 

[EasterJoy]

Eh, there are a lot of misunderstandings about this.

At least in US culture, it’s a HOST’s place to pick up the tab. If I invite somebody out to dinner, be they male, female, or ???, then I need to pay for them, just as if I invited them to my home for dinner I would provide them with a meal free of charge, unless there’s some sort of specific prior agreement to go Dutch or do a potluck.

People get very confused about this and mad about the unfairness of it all, but the rules are actually pretty simple. The reason people believe it’s traditionally the man’s role to pay is that traditionally the man was asking the woman out, and asking out and paying does naturally go together. If one wishes to pay, one should be the one making the initial invitation.

This has been your etiquette minute!

This is true, but it is OK when invited out to dinner to say, “I’ll go, but only if I get to pay” or “That sounds like fun, but you have to let me pay for half.”

The assumption is that the host pays for everything unless established otherwise, but it should also be remembered that not everyone has gotten the memo. The assumption can’t safely be assumed to be universal, because some well-meaning people operate on the “going halves unless we’ve established otherwise” principle. The wise guest does not leave her wallet at home, then. Adults should also be ready for the unfortunate dinner host who opens his or her wallet and realizes too late that “I seem to be caught a bit short.” Put yourself in the position to be gracious and turn a huge disaster into a small embarrassment that is shifted to “next time will be your turn” or “don’t worry, you can host me twice in a row next time.” Be ready to chip in at least what your own meal costs, and bring some small bills so you can at least offer to pick up the tip.

 

[Xantippe]

This is true, but it is OK when invited out to dinner to say, “I’ll go, but only if I get to pay” or “That sounds like fun, but you have to let me pay for half.”

The assumption is that the host pays for everything unless established otherwise, but it should also be remembered that not everyone has gotten the memo. The assumption can’t safely be assumed to be universal, because some well-meaning people operate on the “going halves unless we’ve established otherwise” principle. The wise guest does not leave her wallet at home, then. Adults should also be ready for the unfortunate dinner host who opens his or her wallet and realizes too late that “I seem to be caught a bit short.” Put yourself in the position to be gracious and turn a huge disaster into a small embarrassment that is shifted to “next time will be your turn” or “don’t worry, you can host me twice in a row next time.” Be ready to chip in at least what your own meal costs, and bring some small bills so you can at least offer to pick up the tip.

Right.

But no matter what, there is no “the man always pays” rule.

 

[Xantippe]

I guess I would start here:

So after a few minutes of chatting, you just decided you were done with him? And that was that? (I am a bit curious as to what shut you off…was it his looks, his desire to chat with you, the stories he shared? ) I totally understand that nobody really wants to share their life story and very personal experiences with someone on a first date, even if it goes well, very much less so on a bad date; but your comment makes it sound like its only one extreme or another…either you have to share your inner most personal stories, or you say nothing. That just seems bizarre. Look, if he was a bit of ogre, making crude remarks etc. , then I am all for cutting him off and not participating in conversation… heck get up and leave in the middle of dinner would be warranted in some situations; but this guy was kind with a good heart. I don’t believe this guys deserves that same response simply b/c there is no spark and you decide you are done with him. Even though you have decided he is not boyfriend material, I still feel that you have an obligation to carry on a conversation with guy beyond answering direct questions. (not saying you have to share deep personal details, but one can have a conversation with someone without doing so.)

I’d also like to point out that you seem irritated that he kept talking…asserting that perhaps he is one of those who doesn’t like silence. I think it is more likely that he was talking b/c that is how people get to know one another and he was on a first date. And, to be honest, long stretches of silence on a first date are awkward, especially when one seems intent on ensuring that they happen. Perhaps his talking did go into overdrive as a response to this.

Take this story fwiw, but it is one reason why I posted in this thread. My daughter recently attended prom. She is fairly social, but does not date, and had plans with a bunch of her friends to attend together (apparently, that is how it is done now). Anyway, she ended up getting asked by this very smart, very nice, but very shy guy. She accepted not really knowing that he was interested in her in a romantic way (there were plenty of guys asking girls who were all just friends). My daughter was not interested in him that way and it became an issue. She was making plans with her friends about prom and was reluctant to include her date in the discussion b/c, in her mind, she was sort of done once she found out he liked her. She didn’t want to lead him on and felt all sorts of tremendous pressure, so she just set him aside as though he didn’t exist and would deal with it as it came. I explained that her behavior was unacceptable, she accepted his invitation and this was his prom too. This super nice guy deserved better. We had many many many conversations trying to get her to see that she didn’t need to “like” him romantically to have a fun date, nor does having a fun date mean that she is necessarily leading him on. She doesn’t have to like him, but she has to respect him and his feelings. He isn’t some object that she can cast aside b/c she doesn’t know how.or want to deal with it.

Anyway, I see some similarities here, and coupled with the fact that most posters were saying how everything was handled ok… I felt compelled to jump in.

Weeeell, I’ve read a lot of the OP’s threads, and I feel confident saying that the OP used up all of her social resources on this date.

I suspect the OP is one of those people that have no small talk at all–hence her belief that the only alternative to total silence would be sharing deeply personal information. My husband also has almost no small talk for use on casual acquaintances, so I understand.

Long term, I think the OP ought to work on developing her small talk, but I’m pretty sure that on this particular occasion, she did everything she could with what she had available. She’s not your uber social daughter.

Oh, and this is off-topic and it’s probably too late, but I think it would be a good idea not to go to prom with a boy that’s super interested in her if she isn’t interested in him and wants to spend time with her friends instead. If they’re going to go out at all, how about something lower pressure and lower stakes…like coffee. Everything that has been said about the problem of long awkward dinners applies 3X more to prom.

 

[chevalier]

Eh, there are a lot of misunderstandings about this.

At least in US culture, it’s a HOST’s place to pick up the tab. If I invite somebody out to dinner, be they male, female, or ???, then I need to pay for them, just as if I invited them to my home for dinner I would provide them with a meal free of charge,

Let’s say there are two competing rules. The host does pay, which means for example that I sometimes end up paying for other guys. Under that principle a woman could indeed pay for the man. On the other hand, it tends to be a gentlemanly thing to do to pick up the bill whenever the situation is not too clear and sometimes also when it’s quite clear anyway (but silently, without making a show of it).

A woman who wants to emphasize that her current companion is not a romantic prospect will typically insist on paying her own part, it’s a way of marking distance. In this sense allowing a man to pay the bill is a sign of favour. Not necessarily implying any sort of romantic tension, more comparable to just accepting someone’s company, being escorted home, using someone as a crying shoulder, taking his jacket when it’s cold etc. Like I said, it demonstrates a certain trust, lack of distance, it also allows the man to show some generosity, hence it works as a face-saving measure for a rejected man. Again, just like giving up his jacket in (i.e. despite) a similar sort of situation.

unless there’s some sort of specific prior agreement to go Dutch or do a potluck.

My personal opinion is that those things are best not specifically discussed.

People get very confused about this and mad about the unfairness of it all, but the rules are actually pretty simple. The reason people believe it’s traditionally the man’s role to pay is that traditionally the man was asking the woman out, and asking out and paying does naturally go together. If one wishes to pay, one should be the one making the initial invitation.

Again, it’s not that simple.

This has been your etiquette minute!

Thank you for your kindness, but I don’t think my knowledge of etiquette was inferior or in need of clarification.

But no matter what, there is no “the man always pays” rule.

It’s not about rules, it’s about kindness.