I feel sick...potential convert

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Your very welcome…

I myself am a “convert”…more than 20 years…

You can always PM if I can be of any help…

The most important week of the entire year is next week…

when we see Jesus of Nazareth our Lord …beaten and mocked…spit upon…

and crucified

and placed in a tomb

with the Apostles …and disciples running away…even denying they know him

and weeping…

but then came the Resurrection!

and angels…

the news that he was risen…the tomb was empty…they had seen him…

and then

he was among them…

peace be with you…
 
freerf said:
I guess I’m what you would call a potential Catholic. I’ve been recently attending Mass with my wife and children but am being increasingly persuaded that the Catholic Church is deeply flawed.
Juxtapose the recent media coverage of pediphile priests with the Church’s recent decision to kick-out children of gay parents from Catholic schools and what do you get? A Church that appears morally confused. (at best). I want to believe the Catholic Church is God’s Church, is the universal Church. I really do. But why should I? Then I hear a poll on Catholic Radio that shows Catholics among the worst at knowing the reason for the season of Easter. Ouch. Protestants were among the best. Big surprise.

How can I convert to Catholicism among these scandles? How could I possibly truhfully say that I believe all the Catholic Church teaches is from God? I can’t. I just can’t.
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My brother,

Like all Catholics especially those who practice their faith are hurt, sick, tired, annoyed by the sex scandal in Europe (Ireland, Germany, Netherland). If you look at these cases they happen around the same time the sex scandal struck the United States and Canada. Mid-1970s-1980s. Some of the priests who have committed these crimes are dead like Fr. Murphy.

The pattern is priest commits the pedophilia against minors, gets transfer, and the local bishop trying to cover it up. As you know the Scandal in the US have done more than enough by having programs that provide awareness of sexual predators and report them.

The sex scandal also prove that priests are human beings and like us, they can sin. There are 400,000 priest world wide and according to the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith 300 of the priest have been found guilty of the crime. They make up the minority, and the Catholic Church is doing what it can to fix the problem. It isn’t a “NEW problem” because the crimes that have been committed by priest have reach their “statue of limitation” (since the accusations have come from victims who are now grown adults).

I am Catholic man discerning the priesthood since 2006 and I am in the Army. I am also remain chaste for my entire 34 yrs on earth (since my birth). Some might ponder why are you thinking about becoming a priest with these scandals?

I have never been ask this question but if I am ever presented with this question. I would answer, God is calling me to a diocesean priesthood. I cannot allow the actions of a few priests to discourage me. The thing we can do now is pray for better priest. Offer a Mass for priests. Do a Holy Hour before the Blessed Sacrament for priests. Pray for better bishops in our Church. Most of all, pray for the Pope. Pope Benedict XVI is doing what he can. I do believe the Vatican can do better and could change strict policy to control and prevent sexual crimes. The Pope and the Church have zero toleration for pedophilia. You read his Letters and his predecessor, Pope John Paul II.
 
Bookcat said:
The media is often does not get things right…and remember Jesus said as they treated him so they will do with his disciples…

And Jesus said they called him Belelzbub …what will the call his followers…

Go read the Homilies and Audiences of Pope Benedict XVI…read the Catechism and the Compendium…

etc…

There are Many Many Catholics in the world…with so large a number you will find some who are grave sinners…some who do horrible things…some who do not know their faith…

but these are some.

if you lived during a period in the Old Testament when there were scandals because of some Priests etc…would you say…man this is not the people of God …and go somewhere else?

If one judges by some mens sins…one will have no where to go…

(but then again look too at the holiness of the Church! the saints! the self giving etc…)

1/12 th of the Apostles turned out not well…

many disciples of Jesus walked away from him when he spoke of the Eucharist…eating his flesh…

do not let the sins of some keep you from full communion with the his Church…
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And 1/3 of all the angels actually left Heaven to go follow Satan.
 
freerf said:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Particularily Bookcat, for all your effort. It did not go without fruit. All your answers were just what I needed: a reminder of God’s heart and Grace and the enemies efforts to destroy.
JaredR, a good reminder to keep my thoughts on righteousness!
Shondrea, too true. too true.
Whitacre, funny quote, “to study church history is to…” I’ve found this true about myself. … like I said, potential convert.
GeorgeSword, thank you. Brought tears to my eyes.
Lux, Amen Brother!
Wolfgang, everybody needs a helping hand once in a while.

I do love the Catholic Church, but you can imagine the spiritual battle for a 10 year non-denominational christian convert.:o

Thank you!
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Friend, thank you for this thread. You had the courage to ask and say things that are on my mind as well, and no doubt on the minds of many who are drawn to (or at least curious about) the Catholic Church. I’m in the same boat that you’re in. Prayers are in order!
 
freerf said:
I guess I’m what you would call a potential Catholic. I’ve been recently attending Mass with my wife and children but am being increasingly persuaded that the Catholic Church is deeply flawed.
Juxtapose the recent media coverage of pediphile priests with the Church’s recent decision to kick-out children of gay parents from Catholic schools and what do you get? A Church that appears morally confused. (at best). I want to believe the Catholic Church is God’s Church, is the universal Church. I really do. But why should I? Then I hear a poll on Catholic Radio that shows Catholics among the worst at knowing the reason for the season of Easter. Ouch. Protestants were among the best. Big surprise.

How can I convert to Catholicism among these scandles? How could I possibly truhfully say that I believe all the Catholic Church teaches is from God? I can’t. I just can’t.
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Here are some excellent links on the sex scandal:
Code: 
* [catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm](http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm)
* [gkupsidedown.blogspot.com/2010/03/pedophile-priests.html](http://gkupsidedown.blogspot.com/2010/03/pedophile-priests.html)
* [independent.ie/national-news/falsely-accused-priest-highlights-abuse-dilemma-892574.html](http://www.independent.ie/national-news/falsely-accused-priest-highlights-abuse-dilemma-892574.html)
* [insurancejournal.com/news/national/2007/06/18/80877.htm](http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2007/06/18/80877.htm)
* [catholicexchange.com/2010/03/25/128529/](http://catholicexchange.com/2010/03/25/128529/)
No kids were “kicked-out” of school. For very good reasons given by the priest responsible for the school (and I believe their archbishop), they will not be admitted for the next year. This is in the interest of the child involved as well as all other children at the school. With this large advance notice, the gay custodians of the child have more than enough time to chose another private (or public) school in their area - from which there are many.

Please do not believe the depictions of the Catholic Church from the mainstream media. They have a distinct anti-Catholic agenda.
 
freerf said:
I guess I’m what you would call a potential Catholic. I’ve been recently attending Mass with my wife and children but am being increasingly persuaded that the Catholic Church is deeply flawed.
Juxtapose the recent media coverage of pediphile priests with the Church’s recent decision to kick-out children of gay parents from Catholic schools and what do you get?..
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Remember that guy Judas? We don’t leave Peter because of Judas.

Do you think Jesus knew Judas would betray him? Of course he did. So why did he choose him? To remind us that there will always beJudas Priests in every generation. And do you think you will find a church full of sinless people elsewhere? You are being led by the nose right where the lame-stream media wants to lead you: Out of the Church.

For God’s sake, the people in the Liberal media are the LAST people you should be listening to… Trust God: Trust the Church. Do your part, and if other people screw up, remember that your faith is not in them but in God.

The Catholic Church is the true household of the Lord, and its right where you need to be my friend.
 
I have not heard a single case of anyone renouncing their American citizenship due to the American leadership in one President Bill Clinton’s shameful & lascivious White House affair with Miss Lewinsky. That man angrily wagged his finger at the American people in denial - telling us that he was innocent. Then of course was proven to be a liar and impeached then hailed by the liberal press as a great leader.

Yet the Catholic Church has never denied the truth that we are not (yet) perfect and have about 1.8% cases of illicit sex; with about 80% of those involved with young men age 16-18 (which is not even illegal in Europe) and its nearly always with consent. Nonetheless it’s morally repugnant and intolerable to permit even 1 case for The Catholic Church and we are doing a good job pre-screening our seminary students before they are called into service.

The news we are hearing is mostly OLD replays - and NOT “news” by any stretch of the imagination. It’s an active global media smear campaign and revisionist history meant to take attention off the pathetic decline of the west’s economy and civil system and incompetent western leadership. It’s also an attempt to sensationalize to gain revenues - since no one is buying print media any more and the newspapers are fighting for their lives to stay financially solvent as advertising dollars fall due to bad economy. What we are really seeing is the death spasms of the news media who are desperate for anything new to stimulate sales and viewership.

In the day (60s-70s) The Church often took the bad advise of liberal psychologists who told the Church that these sick priests were “cured”. That was the mistake the church made - believing incompetent psychologists who put forward the notion that psychological counseling could cure these sickos. There was no real active cover-up - they were trying to be humane and merciful to protect men who swore they had repented and who the psychologists assured the Church were “cured”. We know better now - that certain kinds of thse abusive priests (the few true pedophiles) are not curable and need to be isolated (in my opinion in jail for life).

Why is it that we never hear about “pedophile pastors (non celibate)”? The reason is not because there are none - quite the contrary they are at least as high as Catholic priests (not to mention spouse abuse/violence - non-existent in the Catholic Church). The reason is that the Protestants are so fragmented that they can’t be sued in block and made to pay large legal settlements. The other reason is somone has to buy the news and the natural targeted consumer are those who are in conflict with the Catholic Church - Protestants and the leftist groups (homosexual and pro-death groups). The Catholic Church is large enough and easy enough to victimize (since we don’t counter-suit the newspapers for slander - a mistake in my mind) to gain a large emotional drama effect. We Catholics have a LOT of enemies since we are one of the few out there that stands up against the immoral zeitgeist that the seculars are abusing us with everytime we turn our backs to them. The abuse the media is inflicting the Catholic Church with is at least as bad as that which was caused by a few bad priests many decades ago.

Enough said…

James
 
JVD said:
I have not heard a single case of anyone renouncing their American citizenship due to the American leadership in one President Bill Clinton’s shameful & lascivious White House affair with Miss Lewinsky…
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That is an EXCELLENT analogy
 
Bookcat said:
Your very welcome…

I myself am a “convert”…more than 20 years…

You can always PM if I can be of any help…

The most important week of the entire year is next week…

when we see Jesus of Nazareth our Lord …beaten and mocked…spit upon…

and crucified

and disciples running away…even denying they know him

…
Click to expand...
The media echos this on the Pope:

“Crucify him!”
 
freerf said:
I guess I’m what you would call a potential Catholic. I’ve been recently attending Mass with my wife and children but am being increasingly persuaded that the Catholic Church is deeply flawed.
Juxtapose the recent media coverage of pediphile priests with the Church’s recent decision to kick-out children of gay parents from Catholic schools and what do you get? A Church that appears morally confused. (at best). I want to believe the Catholic Church is God’s Church, is the universal Church. I really do. But why should I? Then I hear a poll on Catholic Radio that shows Catholics among the worst at knowing the reason for the season of Easter. Ouch. Protestants were among the best. Big surprise.

How can I convert to Catholicism among these scandles? How could I possibly truhfully say that I believe all the Catholic Church teaches is from God? I can’t. I just can’t.
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sure you can. obey the teachings of the Church and dont sin like the others do.

we need one more holy soldier in the battle field.
 
freerf said:
I guess I’m what you would call a potential Catholic. I’ve been recently attending Mass with my wife and children but am being increasingly persuaded that the Catholic Church is deeply flawed.
Juxtapose the recent media coverage of pediphile priests with the Church’s recent decision to kick-out children of gay parents from Catholic schools and what do you get? A Church that appears morally confused. (at best). I want to believe the Catholic Church is God’s Church, is the universal Church. I really do. But why should I? Then I hear a poll on Catholic Radio that shows Catholics among the worst at knowing the reason for the season of Easter. Ouch. Protestants were among the best. Big surprise.

How can I convert to Catholicism among these scandles? How could I possibly truhfully say that I believe all the Catholic Church teaches is from God? I can’t. I just can’t.
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I’m right with ya’ brother. It can be a tough pill to swallow.

I am a convert/candidate and will be confirmed next week.

But I ask you to stick with it. It is a beautiful church, that, like all, is filled with confused and conflicted members that are flawed as you and me. The problem is, take birth control, I know that most of 'em don’t practice the ‘no birth control’. The families, at the Mass, are too small. 2 plus 2 still makes 4. There are couples in my church, in their 50’s, that have 1 or 2 kids and are cradle Catholics. So, by the very nature of the Churches doctrines, they are going to have ‘conflicted’ members.The members have to deal with reality. ‘I can’t afford another child’. Further, the Churches doctrines are not always compatible with what is acceptable in society. There is a difference between a sin, and a crime or what is acceptable in society. What it teaches, is unattainable for most. A line in the sand that IF you were a ‘perfect’ Christian, this is how you live. It’s not something any of us, or few of us, can attain. I will say any. What I like about the Church is more than other Church’s, it’s doctrines and traditions serve to remind us of our selfish nature and imperfections rather than, in many other Churches, justify them by renaming and accepting greed as ‘prosperity theology’ and lust as ‘love’, which is what what many of them teach, amounts too. The Catholic church understands that you’re going to sin, and gives you a way to forgiveness, grace and salvation rather than simply saying, ‘Okay,we give up. People sin, we’ll just not call this a sin.It makes people feel bad. They don’t want to hear that.’ and throw in the towel as many Protestant or 'non-denomination churches have. In the Catholic church, I feel as though I have a discipline to follow and strive for. I did not feel that way before. Plus, I just do not believe in sola scriptura. I have learned a LOT reading about the Saints. The breadth and depth of the Catholic Church is mind boggling.

With that, I leave with a joke:

I have a good friend who is Catholic and when I told him I was converting he told me this:

You know what is wrong with the Catholic Church ?

It’s filled with Catholics. 😃
 
freef
Another thing to consider. Jesus said that if they world hated him it would hate us too. Look at the news, which is the Church that is attacked more by the media, by the world, by the enemy, and by many Hollywood celebreties? And who is behind those attacks?

This reminds me of a story (not real of course but food for thought).
There was this Catholic Church where the faithful were constantly harassed by the devil. Across the street from the Church was a bar where all sorts of debauchery and sin was going on. The devil was asked why he kept pestering those people coming out of the Church and not go over to the bar. His reply, was that “those people at the bar I already have them. It’s these people coming out of the Church that I want” In very much the same way, the Church is constantly under attacked and regrettably many fall by the wayside. Peter and John were glad to suffer for Christ and in the same manner we as Catholics should be prepared to suffer and be attacked. This is one battle that will not end until the coming of Christ and the Catholic Church is the one carrying the Truth so that’s why is constantly under attacked. Study the Catechism, study the Church’s history especially the Early Church and the writings of her fathers and you will see that going back to the early years of the Church before we had a bible, the CC is still teaching the same Truths and fighting the good fight.

God Bless = you are in my prayers.
 
To put the feeding frenzi of the news media into perspective and to prove their complete complete lack of balance in reporting sexual abuse only in the Catholic Church consider these statistics:
  • “The physical sexual abuse of students in public schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.” (ref: Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft).
  • A federal report said 422,000 California public-school students would be victims of sexual abuse (all kinds - fellow students and teacher-student) before graduation — a number that dwarfs the state’s entire Catholic-school enrollment of 143,000.
  • According to a major 2004 study commissioned by the U.S. Department of Education – the most in-depth investigation to date – nearly 10 percent of U.S. public school students have been targeted with unwanted sexual attention by school employees.
  • Comparing the incidence of sexual misconduct in public schools with the Catholic Church scandal, Shakeshaft notes that a recent study by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops concluded 10,667 young people were sexually mistreated by priests between 1950 and 2002. While even a single case is outrageous for Catholics this just reflects the MUCH larger societal problem here in the USA. This rate is 205 cases of reported cases per year (admittedly alarming) and has been aggressively addressed by the Catholic Church with a zero-tolerance ban now that we know how bad it was. But compare this with what is extrapolated to have happened in only a 9 year period in the US Public Schools from data regressed from a national survey conducted for the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation. In 2000 roughly 290,000 students experienced some sort of physical sexual abuse by a public school employee between 1991 and 2000. **That works out to 32,222 sexual abuse incidents per year in public schools!! **WHERE’S THE SWARM OF MEDIA REPORTING AND OUTRAGE?? That’s 157 times more sexual abuse cases in just ONE SINGLE PUBLIC sector institution than in Catholic Churches/Schools. Add in what goes on at private homes of parents (incest, parent abuse, family friend abuse etc.) and other social events and its clear that Satan is attacking our kids. Any wonder why Planned Parenthood is coaching our children that they have a right to pleasurable sex and reproductive rights independent of parental concern and are now using the girl scouts to peddle their sexual propaganda?
  • More than 4.5 million students are subject to sexual misconduct by an employee of a school sometime between kindergarten and 12th grade, says the government report. Where’s the news media?
If the motive of the press was to serve the public with actionable & useful news why don’t we see headline news like: “Nationwide Teacher Molestation Cover-up” or “Are Ed Schools Producing Pedophiles?” 🤷

It’s clear that the motives are NOT public service but rather to almost exclusively single out the Catholic Church for attack and discrediting. The greater problem, by two orders of magnitude, are in the public schools - yet this is almost entirely ignored by the press and news media.

Yet, during the first half of 2002, the 61 largest newspapers in California ran nearly** 2,000 stories about sexual abuse in Catholic institutions**, mostly concerning past allegations. During the same period, those newspapers ran just four stories **about the federal government’s discovery **of the much larger — and ongoing — abuse scandal in public schools.

When was the last time anyone heard someone call for the resignation of the Secretary of Education, the head of the National Education Association, or of any teacher union for the widespread and increasingly prevalent sexual abuse of children in public schools?

And guess what our liberal judges are doing when the few abuses cases by public school officials actually gets persecuted? They are being let go! This is mostly the situation with the rampant sexual abuse of female-teacher sexual predators with young male student sex (age 35-45 with 14-16 year old boys).They judges are simply letting these public school sexual predators GO (ref. What’s behind today’s epidemic of teacher-student sex?). The judges are telling them ‘well no harm was really done here to the boy - it was consensual sex and the boy was just acting out a common sexual fantasy with an older woman who wanted to give him his fantasy - a thing all boys secretly want.’. Blatant double standard liberal tripe.

At least the Catholic Church has taken massive corrective action steps. Now, when there is a credible complaint about abuse the Catholic Church is turning it over to civil authorities. The US Catholic Church is also no longer ordaining priests who have any proclivity for homosexuality - even when swearing an oath of celibacy.

James
 
Here’s the bottom line on this.

Do you believe that human nature has changed significantly over several thousand years ?

Yes or no ?

Do not even respond with anything but yes or no.

The correct answer, by the way, is no.

This type of thing, and even this specifically, has gone on for thousands of years and I would BET, MY LIFE in the same numbers/percentages as it does now.

Nothing has changed about human beings.

Nothing. Jesus is eternal. His message is eternal and the condition of man is eternal.

A human being is a human being. Ugly. Why is this stuff such a shocker ?
 
As James has just stated sexual abuse is rampant in schools.If you want to be free of sexual abuse scandals then you better just resign from the human race.Child pornography, sexual abuse, slavery is up and astronomical.Non Asians go to Asia so that that they can fornicate freely with some poor child.where is the outrage? The mostly like place for a child to be sexual abused is in his own house by a member or friend of the family, a new boyfriend or /-]girlfriend that their parents bring home.Uncle Bob, cousin Joe etc.Families deny culpability or knowledge and avoid or move away from said abusive person.Does that sound familiar? Again-where is the outrage?There are children suffering all over the world from this sin-yet the world focuses on a tiny, tiny amount of people.What about the rest of the kids and predators that have no one scrutnizing them?They walk and the sad part is that nobody gives a damn what happens to those kids because their perpetrators don’t sell papers or have people glued to the tv.If it doesn’t have some kind of twisted “entertainment” properties then the media is not interested.
I’m not making excuses for the pervs but this is not a Catholic problem alone.This is an enormous worldwide problem that is getting short shrift from the media because it can’t make political points with those ubiquitous , generic creeps.It stinks for Catholics but more for the hundreds of millions of kids that are fare game because the media can’t or won’t be bothered with them. I haven’t met anyone abused by clergy but I know many, many friends and just plain folks that have been damaged by family and friend related outrages.They have no help. no aid, no money given to them help in recovery.They are just out there trying to make the best the can out of a damaged life that nobody , but fellow survivors, really cares about.It is all rather pathetic.disclosing wrongdoing one place while ignoring the massive amount of people who suffer in silence helps no one . Unless the problem is attacked without prejudice unilaterally without any preconceptions then these kids are doomed by the society that claims to care but really walks with blinders on.They can see straight ahead and see one form of injustice while the vast majority of injustice is ignored or put to the side-for “consideration” at a later date.
 
freerf said:
How can I convert to Catholicism among these scandles? How could I possibly truhfully say that I believe all the Catholic Church teaches is from God? I can’t. I just can’t.
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Hello freerf,

Worse than the scandals is the unbiblical teaching of the Roman Church. There are numerous problems with its core doctrine, transubstantion. We just can’t seem to get an an answer as to why we need to perpetuate Jesus’ final sacrifice at mass. And, there is no justification for the papacy.

Go find a good Bible church!

John
 
johnladder said:
Hello freerf,

Worse than the scandals is the unbiblical teaching of the Roman Church. There are numerous problems with its core doctrine, transubstantion. We just can’t seem to get an an answer as to why we need to perpetuate Jesus’ final sacrifice at mass. And, there is no justification for the papacy.

Go find a good Bible church! Go advertise somewhere else! What a good Bible church is I’ll never know since Bible interpretation switches from place to place. Again your obsession with the Eucharist! Jack chick must be your homeboy!

John
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