I feel the Pope should let Priests get Married

[JB_Brother_4446]

How does Phillip equal “all of the apostles except John”?

How does a married deacon show celibacy was the general rule?

 

[GEddie]

How does a married deacon show celibacy was the general rule?

Apples and pebbles.

We have married deacons now. The rule is still that priests and above are celibate.

ICXC NIKA

 

[at9009]

Apples and pebbles.

We have married deacons now. The rule is still that priests and above are celibate.

ICXC NIKA

I think a slight addendum to that is this. As far as I know, a deacon can only be married prior to becoming a deacon. Once a deacon he cannot marry or remarry (if his spouse dies). There might be exceptions but as far as I know that is the rule I think.

 

[eddie_too]

the work and mission of the Church is better served by men and women who give themselves totally to living and proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ. it is not that marrying and bearing children is in any way bad. it is a God given vocation. we are talking about the Church and not only about the faith.

i may have missed them, but what again are the best reasons we have been given for why the Church should abandon her millenium old discipline of only ordaining those given the gift of celibacy?

 

[GEddie]

the work and mission of the Church is better served by men and women who give themselves totally to living and proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ. it is not that marrying and bearing children is in any way bad. it is a God given vocation. we are talking about the Church and not only about the faith.

i may have missed them, but what again are the best reasons we have been given for why the Church should abandon her millenium old discipline of only ordaining those given the gift of celibacy?

Earlier in the thread, I presented two of them, and their rebuttals:

A). “The priestly shortage would be cured if seminarians didn’t have to face celibacy.”

First of all, the priestly shortage is mostly a European/NA issue, but the Church is worldwide. Also, celibacy is 1000 years old, but the supposed shortfall in priests is far more recent.

And as was said, priests never “get married.” The deepest change that could occur would be the normative admission of married men to formation. I’d expect that, if celibacy were really such a red flag, we would see men rush out of formation to “find a wife.” This would result, for a generation at least, in fewer priests, not more.

B) “Celibacy is the reason for all the sexual stuff in the recent past.”

No it’s not. Other subsectors that tend to kids (and have never practiced celibacy) have long generated the same problems.

To this I would add:

C) “The Church already has married priests, who converted as ministers and bring their wives and families with them. So what is being changed?”

True, but this is an exceptional case, and it is not automatic when a married minister converts, either. To propose the normative ordination of married men represents a very serious change, and should reflect an equally serious reason.

D) “The Eastern and Orthodox Churches have always had married priests.”

True, but that is neither here nor there.

E) “There is just something wrong when a man gives up having a wife and family.”

A subjective argument and therefore unarguable.

It goes without saying that I, for one, find all these arguments unconvincing.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Wesrock]

How does a married deacon show celibacy was the general rule?

Not celibacy. Continence. After accepting his ordination as a deacon.

 

[Abu]

GEddie #144
Also, celibacy is 1000 years old, but the supposed shortfall in priests is far more recent.

D) “The Eastern and Orthodox Churches have always had married priests.”

True, but that is neither here nor there.

The fallacy that “celibacy is 1000 years old” only, has been refuted totally by the relatively recent and enormous contributions of Fr Christian Cochini, S.J., Cardinal Stickler, Fr Stephen Heid and others.

From the beginning, continence was required for priest and bishop – for Early Church Tradition among the most important studies are: Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy, Fr Christian Cochini, S.J, 1981, (translated from French, Ignatius Press, 1990); The Case for Clerical Celibacy, by Alfons Maria Cardinal Stickler (Ignatius, San Francisco, 1995); Celibacy in the Early Church, by Fr. Stefan Heid, (Ignatius, San Francisco, 2000).

The book, written by Fr Christian Cochini, S.J., merited this remarkable encomium from the late Henri Cardinal de Lubac: ‘This work is of the first importance. It is the result of serious and extensive research. There is nothing even remotely comparable to this work in this whole 20th century.’ And Curator of the Vatican Library, Fr. Alfons M. Stickler (later Cardinal) wrote: ‘This authoritative work is fully in accordance with the tradition of the Society of Jesus in the area of high-level scientific apostolate’ (Foreword to Cochini’s book).

**The Apostolic Norm was recognized by the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith, in Non latet (1858):
“Whoever ponders diligently the true tradition of celibacy and clerical continence will indeed find that, from the first centuries of the Catholic Church, if not by a general and explicit law, at least by behavior and custom, it was firmly established that not only bishops and priests, but [all] clergy in holy Orders were to preserve inviolate virginity or perpetual continence.”

Married priests in the East began with the rebellion against celibacy at the Council of Trullo.