I finally understand masturbation

[PennitentMan]

Let’s quote our familiar phrase:

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the** deliberate stimulation **of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure.

I have been praying about understanding this teachings for so long and I finally realsed something. Call it a revelation, if you will, but let’s look at that bolded areas.

In the definition, it calls for the deliberate stimulation in order to gain sexual pleasure.

So, what they are saying is that if one engages in this act with the prime purpose of sexually gratifying one’s self, it’s gravely wrong and immoral.

However, what if you engage in this act for other purposes.

Like health reasons.
To prevent prostate cancer. Enough studies have been done to show it does have benefits.
Or to relief stress- emotional or physical stress and anxiety.

On top of that, there will be added benefits of combating premature ejaculation, or at least redice those “2 minute intercourse sessions” that Catholic men have since they are so excited just to do it, it’s over so quickly.

So, as long as you do it for the primary purpose if medical or emotional benefits, being careful not to fantasize about anything, all’s good and I can see no harm in it. Its not even a sexual act in this instance.

PM

 

[PauloFreire2]

I think masturbation is normal. Yeah…it can get excessive and addictive, and yeah…I suppose it’s a sin, too. But, we’re human, after all. It’s victimless sex.

 

[water]

Like health reasons.
To prevent prostate cancer. Enough studies have been done to show it does have benefits.
Or to relief stress- emotional or physical stress and anxiety.
PM

There are different ways to prevent the cancer and to relief stress, why one must select the ways that also provide his own pleasure and that might led him to sins?

 

[PennitentMan]

There are different ways to prevent the cancer and to relief stress, why one must select the ways that also provide his own pleasure and that might led him to sins?

The only other way to actively prevent prostate cancer is to essentially massage the prostate gland manually…how many of you guys do that?

If I eat, I provide nourishment to my body…and as a secondary effect it provides pleasure.
The only other way to gain nourishment is to stick a tube in my gut…

 

[baltobetsy]

On top of that, there will be added benefits of combating premature ejaculation, or at least redice those “2 minute intercourse sessions” that Catholic men have since they are so excited just to do it, it’s over so quickly.

Well, this rationalization won’t work. It’s the same as saying artificial birth control is OK for medical reasons, when the medical reasons in question are the danger of a pregnancy to the wife and the supposed necessity of preventing pregnancy. The ABC is used to prevent pregnancy, which is forbidden. Very different from using the pill to correct some entirely different medical problem with the unintended side effect of sterility.

In this case, you would be getting your sexual pleasure ahead of time in order to prolong the act of intercourse. But the reason for the act would still be sexual pleasure, which is forbidden.

It also appears that it would be the sexual pleasure that relieves the stress and anxiety.

And I wonder if the possible prevention of prostate cancer would have the same importance if it involved something really unpleasant.

Betsy

 

[water]

The only other way to actively prevent prostate cancer is to essentially massage the prostate gland manually…how many of you guys do that?

If I eat, I provide nourishment to my body…and as a secondary effect it provides pleasure.
The only other way to gain nourishment is to stick a tube in my gut…

I don’t do the massage stuff - I don’t even know where to do it
Yesterday, I came to visit a family, and they told me that their dad had had prostate cancer. They prayed to Saint Joseph for awhile before he had the surgery. The doctor said that if the cancer had spread to other parts, they would stop operating on him. Thanks to St. Joseph, it wasn’t spreading. He later just took medicine, and he is now doing great. He only needs to checkup once every 6 months.

That is how I see how to prevent and/or cure the cancer.

Another question for you? Could one get drunk to prevent being nervous?

 

[guanophore]

I think masturbation is normal. Yeah…it can get excessive and addictive, and yeah…I suppose it’s a sin, too. But, we’re human, after all. It’s victimless sex.

If you mean normal in the sense that it is characteristic of those living in the flesh, this is true. But we are called to live in the spirit. Also, sin is an offense against God, and in this case, against the self, and the sacredness for which God created sex. Therefore, it can hardly qualify as victimless. Any time someone deliberately engages in behavior that separates themselves from God, they become a victim of the evil one.

 

[PennitentMan]

I don’t do the massage stuff - I don’t even know where to do it
Yesterday, I came to visit a family, and they told me that their dad had had prostate cancer. They prayed to Saint Joseph for awhile before he had the surgery. The doctor said that if the cancer had spread to other parts, they would stop operating on him. Thanks to St. Joseph, it wasn’t spreading. He later just took medicine, and he is now doing great. He only needs to checkup once every 6 months.

That is how I see how to prevent and/or cure the cancer.

Another question for you? Could one get drunk to prevent being nervous?

He possible could have avioded the whole ordeal with prevenative care?

It’s not nervousness…when did I say that?
Stress. Long, intense, prolonged stress. Plently of people use alchohol to releve stress…

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Let’s quote our familiar phrase:

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the** deliberate stimulation **of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure.

I have been praying about understanding this teachings for so long and I finally realsed something. Call it a revelation, if you will, but let’s look at that bolded areas.

In the definition, it calls for the deliberate stimulation in order to gain sexual pleasure.

So, what they are saying is that if one engages in this act with the prime purpose of sexually gratifying one’s self, it’s gravely wrong and immoral.

However, what if you engage in this act for other purposes.

Like health reasons.
To prevent prostate cancer. Enough studies have been done to show it does have benefits.
Or to relief stress- emotional or physical stress and anxiety.

On top of that, there will be added benefits of combating premature ejaculation, or at least redice those “2 minute intercourse sessions” that Catholic men have since they are so excited just to do it, it’s over so quickly.

So, as long as you do it for the primary purpose if medical or emotional benefits, being careful not to fantasize about anything, all’s good and I can see no harm in it. Its not even a sexual act in this instance.

PM

PM,

Again, I know your struggles with this and the ways in which you have struggled, but based upon this I can see that you continue to struggle.

This would be like saying that sex before marriage is okay because we are bringing new life into the world and that is what God wants.

Again, I think that you are searcing for that elusvie “loophole” that would allow one to mastubate without the guilt. Masturbation is self love, it is a selfish act, there are no ways around it. Whether you are doing it for the orgasm or for your “health” it is still a selfish act that is against what the church teaches.

 

[water]

He possible could have avioded the whole ordeal with prevenative care?

Yes, he could. But if his preventive care harms him his soul, he should not do. He prayed and his prayer got answered.

It’s not nervousness…when did I say that?
Stress. Long, intense, prolonged stress. Plently of people use alchohol to releve stress…

yes, I meant stress. You are right, people use alcohol to relieve stress. Do you believe that too? or when you are being stressful, you go to pray? Which way you prefer - the material way or the spiritual way?

 

[guanophore]

He possible could have avioded the whole ordeal with prevenative care?

It’s not nervousness…when did I say that?
Stress. Long, intense, prolonged stress. Plently of people use alchohol to releve stress…

Yes, and it is an inherently dangerous practice.

 

[fear_n0_evil]

To prevent prostate cancer. Enough studies have been done to show it does have benefits.
Or to relief stress- emotional or physical stress and anxiety.

On top of that, there will be added benefits of combating premature ejaculation, or at least redice those “2 minute intercourse sessions” that Catholic men have since they are so excited just to do it, it’s over so quickly.

So, as long as you do it for the primary purpose if medical or emotional benefits, being careful not to fantasize about anything, all’s good and I can see no harm in it. Its not even a sexual act in this instance.

I think it’s total rationalization. Think of the consequences of this rationale:
If a man has a friend who has friend who had a rough day, should offer to massage his prostate? By this logic, it’s not a homosexual act, it just a guy concerned with the prostate health of another. Sorry, that dog don’t hunt.

 

[wacky_wonderful]

QUOTE
And I wonder if the possible prevention of prostate cancer would have the same importance if it involved something really unpleasant. Betsy

My ex was prone to severe prostate infections. High doses of anti-biotics were required and he also had to undergo a trans-urethral biopsy that caused him to lose all color in his face from the discomfort. I was there during the procedure, I had to alert the doctor that they were losing him.

Ultimately the Rx was sex 3 times a week. Since he was a selfish lover and he was always satisfied and I never was, you can bet that it was unpleasant for one of us!!

Thanks for the laugh, Betsy.

 

[Genesis315]

Let’s quote our familiar phrase:

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the** deliberate stimulation **of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure.

I have been praying about understanding this teachings for so long and I finally realsed something. Call it a revelation, if you will, but let’s look at that bolded areas.

In the definition, it calls for the deliberate stimulation in order to gain sexual pleasure.

So, what they are saying is that if one engages in this act with the prime purpose of sexually gratifying one’s self, it’s gravely wrong and immoral.

However, what if you engage in this act for other purposes.

Like health reasons.
To prevent prostate cancer. Enough studies have been done to show it does have benefits.
Or to relief stress- emotional or physical stress and anxiety.

On top of that, there will be added benefits of combating premature ejaculation, or at least redice those “2 minute intercourse sessions” that Catholic men have since they are so excited just to do it, it’s over so quickly.

So, as long as you do it for the primary purpose if medical or emotional benefits, being careful not to fantasize about anything, all’s good and I can see no harm in it. Its not even a sexual act in this instance.

PM

Stop trying to justify such a perverse sin. Just suffer the temptations faithfully. That is the path to Heaven–not rationalization.

 

[wacky_wonderful]

Can you tell me when this became church teaching? Where did this teaching specifically originate? Celibacy wasn’t always mandatory, so is this teaching in place to guarantee that more babies (future priests/nuns) are born? Why would anyone care about what someone does when alone behind closed doors? Do they think that we would somehow prefer self love to partner sex? Only someone who never had partner sex could think that.

The asexuals and those with a low sex drive sure have it easy!

 

[wacky_wonderful]

Stop trying to justify such a perverse sin. Just suffer the temptations faithfully. That is the path to Heaven–not rationalization.

I could see it as a sin if a person were married, but why is it a sin if you are single?

 

[water]

I could see it as a sin if a person were married, but why is it a sin if you are single?

As a married man, he should not commit adultery, does this mean an unmarried man is ok to commit adultery?

 

[PennitentMan]

Can you tell me when this became church teaching? Where did this teaching specifically originate?

They can’t.

It was not spoken of by Jesus.
None of the apostles preached about it.
It is not written about in the Bible. Sexual sins are so very extremely well analized in the Bible and yet masturbation is not mentioend at all…ever.

It first made it’s appearance in Catholocism in the 6th century.

So, for the first 600 years it was okay.

 

[PennitentMan]

Let me say again. This is not about the sexual part of the act itself, but the end goal that you have in mind.

No fantasizing about anything, purely for medical preventative purposes…

 

[mercygate]

I think masturbation is normal. Yeah…it can get excessive and addictive, and yeah…I suppose it’s a sin, too. But, we’re human, after all. It’s victimless sex.

Except the victim is yourself.

I guess suicide is victimless murder.