I got in trouble for kneeling to receive Communion

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Yes, but in your quote, it said communion cannot be denied. Hamburgler was not denied, but the GIRM specifically states that the person should be catechised on why standing is the norm.
Catechized yes! Chastised on the way back to the pew no! Again the GIRM talks about pastoral care.

According to the OP the supervisor also made false statements to prove his point. What I am debating in this thread is the fact that the supervisor abused his power and made false statements. Anything else is up to the priest.
 
You forget that the Youth minister is her boss and if she is being insubordinate to authority, the parish would have every right to dismiss her from her duties.
Only in matters of youth ministry…

not in matters of posture.

The Bishop is also the boss…and higher up the food chain. But even the bishop CANNOT mandate that posture.

.
 
I would personally like to see people stop chewing the Host after receiving whether they stood or knelt.

And FWIW, I think the youth minister was out of line.
 
The other thing I have to say is this:

The OP stated in her opening that she has been kneeling for the past year. Not past day, or past week or past month but past year. Now in that time I would think/hope that the Youth Minister would have been at Mass and seen her do that prior to this incident. Yet nothing was said or done until you have a special Youth “Service week” where probably a large contigent of teenagers are there and the Youth minister decides it is wrong for her to kneel and speaks to her before she even gets back to her seat and he has to tell her that. Very very uncharitable.
 
Well, the GIRM may say that standing is the “norm” for receiving Holy Communion in the US, but I know of one wonderful church in my city, Baltimore, MD., where one does not stand.

St. Alphonsus Church has never opened the altar rail for people to stand; Communion is distributed with the faithful kneeling at the rail.

This Church is the home of Baltimore’s only Tridentine Mass; St. John Neumann served as pastor and was consecrated a bishop at St. Alphonsus; Blessed Francis Xavier Seelos, CSsR was also a pastor at St. Alphonsus Church.

This is not my parish church but it is a wonderful church with devotions and novenas and shrines and statues with vigil candles and a separate chapel for Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament.

Stand, sham, what more could one want in a church? They also have Forty Hour Devotion when appropriate.

🤷 👍
 
Hi “hamburglar”. It happened to me, too. In fact… my very first post at CAF… was due to this heartbreaking topic.

My former Pastor informed me, in front of everyone (no pulling me aside, quietly)… the same way… “we don’t do that, in this parish”. I remember walking back to my seat, in a state of shock. “We don’t do that, in this parish”? And I thought, we don’t kneel before our Creator “in this parish?”. :nope:

I was shocked, saddened and scandalized. But I decided that perhaps Our dear Lord was testing my obedience. And I felt it best to obey my Pastor. The forum members at CAF… pointed out to me, that sometimes for good reasons… they don’t allow kneeling. Such as the possibility of tripping an elderly person, behind you… etc.

That is why I’m so happy to see that our Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI… is starting to use a KNEELER in giving Holy Communion. I hope that kneelers will reappear in every parish. And that no longer, will anyone be made to feel that they can NOT kneel to receive their Lord and Creator, Jesus Christ.

God bless you. He knows what is in your heart… and how much you love Him and honor Him. 🙂
 
Yes, but in your quote, it said communion cannot be denied. Hamburgler was not denied, but the GIRM specifically states that the person should be catechised on why standing is the norm.
But she wasn’t.

Hamb. was told “We don’t do that here”. Which is false. What Hamburgler did is permitted everywhere. It isn’t even how the GIRM is to be interpreted, according to Rome.

So what was called for by the GIRM did not happen.
 
Well, the GIRM may say that standing is the “norm” for receiving Holy Communion in the US, but I know of one wonderful church in my city, Baltimore, MD., where one does not stand.
Standing for Communion is not common practice at my (OF) Church either.

We have had our bishop, Cardinal Maida, visit on several occasions and he has given Communion to those (majority) who knelt and had nothing but high praise for our parish.

He, being a Cardinal himself, certainly would know more about how Cardinal Arize desires the GIRM to be interpreted. Far more than a youth minister.
 
Well, Hamburgler, if this continues to bother you, you should coordinate a meeting including you, the presiding priest and the youth minister. Get it resolved. I can see your point, but also that of the youth minister. I think it’s up to the priest, in this case. You have to remember context. Perhaps it’s simply inappropriate for that setting. Try to be patient and tolerant of others. Good luck. I hope it works out for you.🙂
 
Well, Hamburgler, if this continues to bother you, you should coordinate a meeting including you, the presiding priest and the youth minister. Get it resolved. I can see your point, but also that of the youth minister.** I think it’s up to the priest, in this case**. You have to remember context. Perhaps it’s simply inappropriate for that setting. Try to be patient and tolerant of others. Good luck. I hope it works out for you.🙂
Not unless the priest has petitioned the CDWDS and recieved a recognitio for any decision contrary to it’s current rulings. 😉
 
Hi,

The instruction says that no one can be denied, but it does say they are to be instructed as to the reasons for the norm.

One is uniformity of posture (as well as the tripping, and difficulty for some), which I can definitely understand for the youth minister at a function.

Fr McNamara on Zenit

Many people who kneel feel that they are more reverent than those who participate in a solemn Communion procession. Only God knows the heart, but I feel disrupting a procession is certainly not more reverent than participating. Kneeling is ok, if there are provisions, but it does not seem the best choice if everyone else is processing.

Lux
With all due respect, it seems as though you are judging the hearts of those of us who wish to recieve Jesus Christ from a kneeling position. Does it make me feel more reverant if I kneel rather than stand? Yes. And I have often prayed to Jesus while waiting in line to make me invisible to those who might see me as being prideful or self righteous. I am not doing it for them, I simply have a difficult time standing to recieve my Jesus. He deserves much more than just kneeling…so kneeling is the least I feel that I should do. Do you not feel the same way? Then don’t kneel. I am not trying to force you into it, so why should you try to force me out of it?
In my opinion, the reason that kneeling is a controversial subject is two things. People cannot stand to see someone else be reverant if they themselves feel guilty about not being reverant enough. That has nothing to do with the communicant that is kneeling…that is all about the one standing.
Or the other reason would be that they are in a rush to get out of Mass, and they do not want It to last one moment longer than necessary.
I concede the point that there may be more reasons, but those are the two that strike me (very fallible) in this debate.
 
I have no problem with kneeling while receiving (though I do believe that I would be literally run-over by other parishoners if I tried it).

What I do have a problem with is people who “bow profoundly” to the back of the person ahead of them in the que - exactly to whom are they bowing? Does it take more time to bow when you actually get to the front of the line? Are you really in that big of a hurry?

Seems to me that kneeling for receiving would completely solve this bad habit! Bring back the communion rail!
👍 👍 👍
 
Okay, I realize I am about to voice an unpopular position, so I have already assumed the ducking position. (But should I kneel in order to duck or stand and duck? I still haven’t decided. ;))

We should start with the passage from the GIRM in question. Here is what GIRM 160 says (in part; emphasis added):

I should say, first off, that I fully understand the desire to kneel to receive Communion. I sincerely wish that that was the norm (and it may soon be). And, of course, the Eucharist should never be denied to someone who kneels (nor should they receive even the threat of denial).

However, for whatever reason in the United States, the norm is to stand while we receive Communion. If the Pope is making it standard to kneel for the reception of the Eucharist at the papal liturgies, well that is certainly his right. Perhaps that means that a change is coming. But the fact remains, we are not there yet, at least not in the U.S.

All the GIRM says is that the norm is standing. There is no little asterisk saying that people may also kneel if they wish. All that is said is that they shouldn’t be denied for kneeling. These are two very different things. Of course the Church is not in the practice of denying Communion to anyone based solely on posture. That would be quite silly. But I find it very telling that the GIRM does not say something like “People may kneel for the reception of Holy Communion if they wish” or “The local bishop may make an exception for his diocese by allowing people to kneel for the reception of Holy Communion.” Nothing of the sort is stated.

Further, it goes on to say that instances where people kneel should be addressed pastorally, providing those who kneel with catechesis on why standing is the norm. Thus, the GIRM asks priests to confront those who kneel and explain to them the norm. So no one should feel offended if the priests asks to speak with them after Mass. They are just following the GIRM.

Now, is it the place of the Youth Minister to do this? I don’t know. Maybe the pastor asked him to. In any case, by virtue of his position (appointed by the pastor), the Youth Minister is (in part) responsible for the catechesis of the youth of the parish. The fact that the OP works for him indicates that the OP is also in a leadership position (not to mention the fact that the Youth Minister is responsible for those who work under him). As such, I find it reasonable for the Youth Minister to expect that the OP respect and follow the norms established by the bishops.

Do some priests take it too far by threatening to deny Communion, or by inappropriately confronting the person about it during Mass? Sure. And they shouldn’t do that. But it is their right, nay, their duty as a pastor to ask that their parishioners follow the norms established in the GIRM.

In my mind, the real issue here is fidelity to those who have legitimate authority over us. What a great example we can be to those around us by saying, “Yes, I believe it is more proper to kneel to receive Our Lord in the Eucharist. But I humbly submit myself to the norms established by my local bishops, because their authority comes from Christ, and my obedience to them is obedience to Christ.” I believe that that is what we are called to do.
And if the Catholic bishops said that the “norm” would be for people to go to Mass only once a week, yet the Pope is saying Mass for everyone in Rome once a day, should we not go to Mass every day if we so wish?
 
With all due respect, it seems as though you are judging the hearts of those of us who wish to recieve Jesus Christ from a kneeling position. Does it make me feel more reverant if I kneel rather than stand? Yes. And I have often prayed to Jesus while waiting in line to make me invisible to those who might see me as being prideful or self righteous. I am not doing it for them, I simply have a difficult time standing to recieve my Jesus. He deserves much more than just kneeling…so kneeling is the least I feel that I should do. Do you not feel the same way? Then don’t kneel. I am not trying to force you into it, so why should you try to force me out of it?
In my opinion, the reason that kneeling is a controversial subject is two things. ** People cannot stand to see someone else be reverant if they themselves feel guilty about not being reverant enough. That has nothing to do with the communicant that is kneeling…that is all about the one standing. **
Or the other reason would be that they are in a rush to get out of Mass, and they do not want It to last one moment longer than necessary.
I concede the point that there may be more reasons, but those are the two that strike me (very fallible) in this debate.
And this is not judgmental? Do whatever you feel called to do, but do not judge me because I participate in th communion procession, and feel this and following the instructions of the celebrant is what is pleasing to my Lord.

Lux
 
The posture of standing requires permission of the Apostolic See. **Granted, such permission has been given to the USCCB; **however, to deny that kneeling when one receives Holy Communion is a very bad misunderstanding of what the norm indicates.

The Youth Minister needs a serious lesson on catechesis as far as the reception of Holy Communion is concerned.
Sometimes it is more humble to do as you are told, rather than demand a right.

Lux
 
However, you are ignoring a very important fact here. Inasmuch as standing to receive Holy Communion is the norm for the United States, the question of kneeling to receive Holy Communion has been resoundlingly answered by Rome. Kneeling is the universal norm and if the communicant wishes to make use of that posture, it is his right. Kneeling to receive Holy Communion is not restricted to Papal Masses where the communicant receives Our Lord from the Holy Father.
Actually, standing or kneeling as instructed by the conference of bishops is the universal norm.

A letter (which does not supercede the GIRM) has recognized the right of any communicant to receive kneeling, but the norm in the US has mentioned they be instructed in the norm of standing.

If you believe that this would indicate that Jesus (who died, rather than defy local custom) would be pleased by kneeling in disregard of the request of a priest or superior, then kneel. It is your right.

Lux
 
After re-reading the content quoted from other sites and provided by Brendan, I stand corrected. I don’t know why they don’t emphasize in the GIRM more on receiving communion while kneeling. By reading the GIRM alone, it can be interpreted as communion will not be denied but the communicant should be catechised on why they should stand in the United States. After reading the letters from the CDWDS, I see where this is clarified. There is too much room for error on these matters.
 
It seems to me today that people have problems with authority. If you are in a position of leadership, you should be obediant to those in authority over you. Hamburgler was not denied communion. The youth minister told her that she was not supposed to be doing this. As stated, the norm is standing in the United States. When you are working in a position for the church and setting examples for the youth especially, you should follow the norms and do what is asked of you within reason.
I agree. What the youth minister demanded was NOT within reason.
 
Follow Your heart my friend.
Will you obey God, or Man.
Your Heart obviously convicts you to kneel.

If their is a “Scene” let it begin with the Youth minister.
You are on solid Ground both by conviction and by Church teaching.

Peace
James
Quite right, my friend. Quite right.
Thanks for hitting the nail on the head.
 
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