I got in trouble for kneeling to receive Communion

[LRThunder]

I wonder how many people would be defending my rights here, if I were to go to a TLM and insist on standing and receiving in the hand?

Except when you receive communion at the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, you kneel and receive it on the tongue.

In the Ordinary Form, you can stand and receive on the hand or on the tongue, or kneel and receive on the tongue. Those who do the latter, according to Rome, cannot be punished for doing so even if the preference in the U.S. is to stand. And yet, that’s what the OP’s youth minister tried to do, even though he did not have the authority to do so.

 

[MrS]

The parish is St. Robert of Newminster in Ada, Michigan. Here’s our website: strobertchurch.org

Looks like a very big parish… and lots going on.

I notice in the bulletin they have up to a dozen “Eucharistic Ministers” at the 11 Mass on Sunday.

That is a lot of ordinations.

You may be fighting an uphill battle, depending on just what your pastor means by this, from last week’s bulletin:

“…Another idea in Paul is simply that religion is always based on the personal encounter with Christ…that is why we have over the 2,000 years of the church’s existence retooled the ceremonies from time to time. The ceremonies must capture and express that relationship in new cultures and in new life experiences…”

 

[MrS]

Just a thought…

hamburgler… be the last in line… then you cannot disrupt anyone.

.

 

[MrS]

Fine. Kneel, stand on your head, whatever…but then don’t whine when others take notice. When you do something that stands out from the rest, and then complain when others take note, you asked for it.

Like the woman who is well-endowed, and wears skin-tight blouses with plunging necklines, then feigns offense when men ogle…

hahahahahahah

What is the saying… pot meet kettle?

 

[MrS]

I did have an interesting conversation with one of the principles in this matter.

I will respond by PM if asked… but not just to everyone

 

[Brendan]

I wonder how many people would be defending my rights here, if I were to go to a TLM and insist on standing and receiving in the hand?

Actually, you do not have that right under the General Instructions for the EF. If you feel otherwise, please point out extactly where it says so. Otherwise, you are merely confusings General Instructions.

But one DOES have that right under the GIRM for the OF in the United States, and I would defend your right to do.

 

[Joe_5859]

Wow, a lot of action on this thread since yesterday. There is a lot I want to reply to, but I will limit myself because of time and length (and because I’m sure no one wants to see ten posts in a row from me! ).

The document is quoted in post #17. It’s the second letter sent to the US by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments on this subject in response to inquiries by the faithful.

“Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion”.

Thank you for that clarification, Phemie. I accept the CDWDS’s statement and I will refrain from implying that those who kneel are disobedient or acting illicitly.

And if the Catholic bishops said that the “norm” would be for people to go to Mass only once a week, yet the Pope is saying Mass for everyone in Rome once a day, should we not go to Mass every day if we so wish?

Since this was directed toward me, I figured I should respond. As this hasn’t happened, this is really a non-argument. You can’t build arguments based on “what if…” scenarios.

 

[Joe_5859]

UPDATE: Please read all of the post, this issue is really troubling for me.

(edited for length)

Wow, that is a really tough situation (and sorry for referring to you as “she”…I was following the crowd). It doesn’t seem like your Youth Minister is handling the whole thing as well as he should (and the personal comments about you being a bad priest unless you change is a little uncalled for).

Now the question is, what do you do? I’d like to piggyback off of what Ted in Charlotte said:

Actually my opinion is since it is not mandatory to kneel and standing is the norm, why even make this an issue? Sounds like the OP is the one that is on tenious ground wanting to prove a point that “he is right” and is using the church as his weapon.

First, to be fair, I’m not sure that it is the OP that is trying to prove that “he is right”. Rather, it seems more that some other posters are indingnant on his behalf.

That said, we cannot approach this situation in a vaccuum of Church documents and CDWDS letters. Yes, the Youth Minister did not handle the situation as well as he could have. And, yes, perhaps you are correct that you have every right to kneel and not be denied Communion. But, the fact is, in real life, people don’t always respond the way they should. So here are your options as I see them:

Talk to the pastor about the situation. And what are the possible results from this?

1. 
   *]The pastor agrees with you 100 % and immediately fires the Youth Minister for stepping out of line. This seems unlikely.
   *]The pastor agrees with the Youth Minister 100% and tells you exactly the same thing: stand or leave your position.
   *]The pastor takes some sort of pastorally middle ground. He doesn’t fire the Youth Minister, but he sits both of you down to talk (either separately, together, or both) and allows you to receive while kneeling without losing your position.
   *]The pastor does nothing and tells you to work it out amongst yourselves (thereby leaving you in the exact position you are in right now).
   
   Result #3 may look good on the surface, but you have to keep in mind that, even if you succeed in getting your way and not losing your position, your relationship with your Youth Minister will never be the same. This will have repercussions in that your working relationship will be strained (which may hurt the effectiveness of your Youth Ministry program as a whole). You may find your Youth Minister making things more difficult for you in other things.
   
   Your second option is:
   
   Follow the Youth Minister’s request. Based on the interaction you have posted, it seems likely that, even if you pull out a notarized, signed copy of the CDWDS’s letter, he still will not change his mind. So, if you opt not to take the issue to your pastor, it seems you will not likely convince the Youth Minister to change his mind. Maybe it would be “unjust” for the Youth Minister to let you go over this. That doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
   
   Your third option is:
   
   Voluntarily leave your position of Youth Ministry. This does not seem to be what you want to do, but it is an option, nonetheless.
   
   It’s easy for us here on the internet to shake our heads in righteous indignation that your “rights” are being violated, point to this or that Church document or Curial statement, and say “You’re right, OP. Case closed. Now, tell that Youth Minister where to get off!”
   
   But the reality is not so simple. You have to live with the consequences, and there are no easy answers. You have to decide what is likely to happen, what might possibly happen, and what you can live with. Can you stand your ground (no pun intended) and kneel, knowing that you will not be able to minister to the youth of your parish? Can you (perhaps temporarily) let go of your desire to kneel in favor of keeping the peace and keeping your position? Would you really rather not receive Jesus at all rather than receive Him standing? What’s more important, the posture, or the Sacrament?
   
   I can’t tell you what to do. No one here can. But I think it does you a disservice to paint the picture as clear cut, black and white. You could be 100% in the right. That doesn’t mean you still won’t get fired.
   
   IMO, it comes down to what is most important to you: the posture in which you receive? Your working relationship with your Youth Minister? The great privilege and responsibility of working with the youth of the parish to bring them closer to Christ? Only you can answer these questions.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Originally Posted by Lux et Tenebrae
As I said, sometimes it is best to give up a right, especially when you wish to work for someone who does not believe there is a right.

That is the most ridiculous statement I have heard on this thread.
It makes no difference if the “boss” doesn’t believe there is a right.

He did mention that he is concerned about keeping his position.

Originally Posted by Lux et Tenebrae
Did you read the response from Fr McNamara in the Zenit article?

com:

Have you read the CDWDS Official Church Documents and how it substantiates the OP’s position?

I am speaking of a resolution to a problem, and reverence, not about being right.

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hamburglar,

Please let us know how you are handling this problem.

God’s peace to you.

Lux

 

[ethelzguy]

Immodesty in dress is not at all comparable to kneeling to receive Holy Communion.

It clearly IS the same.

Someone exercising their just right, and then getting offended when someone else takes note in a manner they don’t like.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I was posting the same time as Joe.

Good assessment of the situation.

Lux

 

[Conservative]

Hamburglar -
You’ve gotten some great responses - probably better than I could.
I’d be in the midst of distress - wanting to KNEEL as I was taught - not wanting to be disobedient - trying to do what I FEEL is appropriate - and then embarrassed at having been reverent brought to my attention - but also, I think I would have made a stink - not on the premises but afterwards / elsewhere. I don’t know how we’re supposed to not be in argument where Our Lord is concerned and yet stand up for ideals…and would appreciate a priest, cleric - or Deacon Ed (I havent’ read all replies so maybe he’s answered you) - someone could advise us.

Phernie has given you a quote, which solves it ROYALLY.

But while I don’t think The Blessed Sacrament should be in midst of debate - it’s difficult for me and yet - I’d tell them - offsite, of course - “who made you Pope?”…To the “we don’t do that here” - I’d say 'isn’t this a Catholic Church? We kneel to Our Savior." But I’d hesitate putting Our Lord’s name in the midst of an argument / dispute.

I’ve watched more inconsistences when it comes to receiving in the hand - where people don’t seem to have the reverence / understanding to some point…at least kneeling…BRINGS us to the point of understanding that this isn’t just something EXTRAordinary …something Holy.

I find it amazing. We’ve gotten so adamant about being democratically ecumenical in various situations - unless reverence comes into play - then, suddenly there’s rules limiting our displaying it. Sorry, but this got me upset.

 

[Conservative]

In followup to my post - a correction:

I messed up in my last paragraph and didn’t want to be misunderstood. It should have read:

"…this isn’t just something EXTRAordinary…it’s something HOLY."

 

[childofmary1143]

While I don’t know the OP personally, when I see incidents such as these I tend to agree. When you have 700 people lined up for Communion, and one (or two or three) decide they must kneel at the front of the line, it creates a clear disruption for others, and brings attention to ones self, at a time that we are supposedly focused on Christ in the Eucharist.

There are countless other ways to demonstrate one’s reverence without making a scene to prove a point and bring attention to one’s self.

[Edited]

First off where did it say there was 700 people lined up for communion in this incident?

Where does it say that the OP was at the front of the line?

As for disruptions, a baby crying, can be disruptive, so should babies be banned from the church then?

[Edited]

There are many ways to be reverent and kneeling for communion is at the top of it.

 

[MrS]

[Edited]

First off where did it say there was 700 people lined up for communion in this incident?

Where does it say that the OP was at the front of the line?

As for disruptions, a baby crying, can be disruptive, so should babies be banned from the church then?

[Edited]

There are many ways to be reverent and kneeling for communion is at the top of it.

I suggest that hamburgler respond to the numbers, the particular Mass in question, and more detail as to this particular request. Perhaps there is more to the story.

In any event, h/b should know that if his priestly vocation is real, he will face much greater opposition and “anger” than this.

.

 

[childofmary1143]

I suggest that hamburgler respond to the numbers, the particular Mass in question, and more detail as to this particular request. Perhaps there is more to the story.

In any event, h/b should know that if his priestly vocation is real, he will face much greater opposition and “anger” than this.

.

From what the CDWDS has said, its really irrelevant how many people are at Mass. I would imagine that the OP wouldn’t mind going at the end of the line to receive Communion kneeling. I do the same myself.

Yes he will face much greater opposition and “anger” than this but that doesn’t excuse the YM from his culpability.

 

[japhy]

It clearly IS the same. Someone exercising their just right, and then getting offended when someone else takes note in a manner they don’t like.

Immodesty is a sin; what “just right” does a person have to sin? Kneeling to receive Holy Communion is not.

 

[Joe_5859]

Yes he will face much greater opposition and “anger” than this but that doesn’t excuse the YM from his culpability.

So what do you suggest that Hamburglar do?

 

[childofmary1143]

So what do you suggest that Hamburglar do?

I would speak to the Priest first about this, give a complete history of what the YM did and the ultimatum that he gave and ask him (Priest) what he can do.

If the Priest doesn’t do anything or sides with the YM then I would proceed to write the Bishop of his Diocese and ask for his help.

If the Bishop doesn’t want to do anything or supports the YM position then I would write to the Vatican for help in this matter.

He could also write to the St. Joseph Foundation which handles these types of situations.

st-joseph-foundation.org/

I might further add it would be best to keep it in writing as it can provide for proof in the substantiating of the OP’s claims.