I got in trouble for kneeling to receive Communion

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Are you suggesting that those advocating uniformity of posture are to be likened to those who slaughtered the early martyrs???

I pray I never see the Parish you find acceptable.end quote

In principle yes, that is correct. And I find acceptable all Roman Catholic Churches…as in, those who follow the traditions of the One Holy and Apostolic Chuch where the Pope is the Vicar of Christ.

 

[childofmary1143]

I can easily understand. But the OP brought him a copy of the letter, and the youth minister totally denied it,and demanded obedience to himself. So I am pretty sure that it wasn’t just a matter of “I didn’t know”. It was, you do it the way I say it, or hit the road. There was no charity. And there wasn’t even an “I’ll check into it, do you have more information that I can look at.” It was a matter of, “HOW DARE YOU EVEN THINK TO GAINSAY WHAT I COMMAND?” If that wasn’t his attitude, why did he make the threats and say that he needed to change before becoming a priest or be a bad priest? It didn’t just lack charity, it was overbearing and threatening. And the youth minister did not mention the priest or what the priest thinks or says about it. And the OP has been recieving this way for a year. Surely the priest had time to talk to him about it if it is an issue to himself. It obviously is not. It is an issue to the youth minister.

:clapping: :clapping:

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Cherie,

It is easy to sit at a keyboard, spouting off dire opinions about what other people should do in retribution for being wronged.

The problem is, (back to the real world of the OP), every action has a reaction. Every action elicts a response.

The reaction…good or bad, right or wrong, fair or unfair, may be a price that the OP is not willing to pay, just for the sake of “being right on this one”.

There will always be other fish to fry, and battle lines to be drawn. My advice would be…“Don’t burn up your spiritual capital on this issue, unless you really think it will be worth it in the end.”

Is it worth derailing a possible vocation, just to show up someone who made an incorrect assertion?

With all due respect, would he have even posted here if it wasn’t something serious to him? And there are other places that he can go to be trained and ordained as a priest. This is not the only place.
This is something coming from the youth minister, a lay person who just so happens to have a job in this parish. He should not bow down to him.
And, if it wasn’t a big deal to him, he wouldn’t have been so upset. He is being given options. He can right the wrong done to the members of the Church without losing his ability to become a priest and work with the youth. He may have to go somewhere else, but he may think it is worth it. I am not demanding that he fight, I was trying to help him see that he is in the right, and there are ways to fight the injustice done to him…a member of the Roman Catholic Church.
Just because something may be difficult doesn’t mean it should be shunned.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Lux et Tenebrae;3968351:

Are you suggesting that those advocating uniformity of posture are to be likened to those who slaughtered the early martyrs???

I pray I never see the Parish you find acceptable.end quote

In principle yes, that is correct. And I find acceptable all Roman Catholic Churches…as in, those who follow the traditions of the One Holy and Apostolic Chuch where the Pope is the Vicar of Christ.

Yes, and the posture for HC is kneeling or standing, as the bishops instruct in all of these.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Cherie,

It is easy to sit at a keyboard, spouting off dire opinions about what other people should do in retribution for being wronged.

The problem is, (back to the real world of the OP), every action has a reaction. Every action elicts a response.

The reaction…good or bad, right or wrong, fair or unfair, may be a price that the OP is not willing to pay, just for the sake of “being right on this one”.

There will always be other fish to fry, and battle lines to be drawn. My advice would be…“Don’t burn up your spiritual capital on this issue, unless you really think it will be worth it in the end.”

Is it worth derailing a possible vocation, just to show up someone who made an incorrect assertion?

The reaction may not be easy, or even likable. But the OP is young and unattached by family obligations…like a wife and 4 kids. He has the ability to move if necessary. He would not have to have his vocation derailed. He could go to any number of Archdiocese and become a priest. He would of course choose one with a Bishop who shares his views of obedience to Rome. There are also communities like the Fransciscans, Benedictines, Jesuits, Brothers of the Sacred Heart, Carmelites, etc. where you can become a priest. If Jesus is calling him, and if his answer is a real yes, then he will seek until he finds…as Jesus promised to all who seek.
He obviously feels strongly about it from the emotion in his post.
It is a worthy fight, not just for him, but for the youth of the parish, and all who come after him. The youth minister has acted in direct disobedience to Rome, and should not have a position of authority in the parish, unless he changes.

 

[AMDGtoo]

Yes, and the posture for HC is kneeling or standing, as the bishops instruct in all of these.

I hope you aren’t saying that a committee of Bishops “trump” the Pope. And I’m sure that you must have noticed that the Youth Minister (who made the fuss) is a layman. He’s not the pastor and he’s certainly not the Bishop.

 

[Phemie]

Canada is becoming a scary place for Roman Catholics. I am continuing to hear more and more Roman Catholics losing their ability to practice their faith in accordance with Rome.

Let it be said that in the the case I noted is old and it was the Bishop who had them arrested. That had nothing to do with Canada but everything to do with various levels of clergy abusing an indult.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Lux et Tenebrae;3968351:

Are you suggesting that those advocating uniformity of posture are to be likened to those who slaughtered the early martyrs???

I pray I never see the Parish you find acceptable.
end quote

In principle yes, that is correct. And I find acceptable all Roman Catholic Churches…as in, those who follow the traditions of the One Holy and Apostolic Chuch where the Pope is the Vicar of Christ.

My point is that this youth minister was not advocating uniformity of posture. He was using his position of authority to demand an obedience to his words and "laws"

that are in direct opposition to Rome. He even went so far as to threaten the OP by stating he would fire him, kick him out of the group, and never allow him to be a part of the youth group again in any manner.

My point is also that the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church are under attack from within. The fight that we who are loyal to the traditions of the Church are to be compared with all of those who have faught the same kinds of battles.
And those who seek to destroy the Church from within are certainly in league with those who slaughter(ed) the martyrs.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I hope you aren’t saying that a committee of Bishops “trump” the Pope. And I’m sure that you must have noticed that the Youth Minister (who made the fuss) is a layman. He’s not the pastor and he’s certainly not the Bishop.

Trumps? I am not saying anything. I am relaying the instructions in the GIRM. The Bishops conference does have much authority, which was given by the vatican.

Lux

 

[Michael_Neal]

However, regardless of that authority given to the Bishops, the Vatican says that you can receive communion on your knees.

So my question is, why do you care? If it is legal to kneel why make a big fuss about it? Why do you feel the need to control people when what they are doing is OK.

Nobody should critisize people who stand or kneel, it is a valid choice either way.

I personally don’t kneel in order to make a public statement or anything, it feels right to me and since it is a valid choice I do so.

I find it sad that there are probably people watching me kneel wringing their hands and grinding their teeth at me.

 

[Phemie]

thank you

How many posting here realize what the universal norm actually states?

Lux

Once again, the UNIVERSAL norm is kneeling – that is, it is OK to kneel everywhere in the world. Standing is NOT a universal norm since it is not licit to stand in many, many countries. What don’t you understand about the term UNIVERSAL?

 

[rinnie]

yea but it doesn’t matter, they won’t stop until they force us to be like them. They will liken us to their 87 year aunt that they can’t stand, then accuse us of being rigid and mean spirited LOL

Oh My Please accept my appolgy. If this was on my account please forget what I said. Please understand what my point was. There are some people in this world who can take little things and blow them up because they are very unhappy discontented people. Why I dont know. Know I am speaking just about her. What my point was Priests have such a stressful life. And it is getting harder and more difficult for them every day. We as Christians have to pull together and help them the best we can, and give them the benefit of the doubt. They are wonderful people and cant please everyone. They are doing Gods work and doing the best they can. I only mentioned her because it struck a cord. But I never wanted to make this out to be mean, I just wanted to lighten things up a little and show people another side. And that other side is to be a Priest, A Priest today is supposed to read peoples minds and be perfect. Remember they have a Bad day too. They are called to do Gods work but they are human too. Again please if this is about me im sorry. Please forget what I said.

 

[Brendan]

Trumps? I am not saying anything. I am relaying the instructions in the GIRM. The Bishops conference does have much authority, which was given by the vatican.

Lux

But not enought authority to block a kneeling person from recieving Communion, or consider him in being disobedient in doing so.

And since a conference of bishops does not have the authority to do what the YM did, why should the YM?

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi Brendan,

Not sure how many of the posts you’ve read, but this is really not about right or wrong, but more about the best choice in a difficult situation.

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Once again, the UNIVERSAL norm is kneeling – that is, it is OK to kneel everywhere in the world. Standing is NOT a universal norm since it is not licit to stand in many, many countries. What don’t you understand about the term UNIVERSAL?

The universal norm is as I have stated. if you look it up, you’ll see the instruction.

Lux

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Let it be said that in the the case I noted is old and it was the Bishop who had them arrested. That had nothing to do with Canada but everything to do with various levels of clergy abusing an indult.

Point taken. And Canada is becoming a scary place for those who are loyal to Rome.

 

[the_phoenix]

For hamburglar, the OP:

May the Holy Spirit lead you and guide you in this matter of kneeling. Will say a quick prayer for you, my friend. And may God bless you abundantly as you discern your vocation.

My own general musings:

When I attend the OF Mass in English, I stand to receive Communion. If I were to see someone kneel, that would be perfectly fine with me … I would be happy to see somone called to such devotion. The OF form of the Mass allows both options. Therefore, both ought to be respected. Simple logic, yes?

When I attend the EF Mass in Latin, I kneel to receive Communion. The EF form of the Mass calls for kneeling. I have no trouble at all “switching gears” and going from a standing position (at my home parish) to a kneeling position (at the downtown parish) to receive Communion.

Now if I saw someone stand to receive Communion at the EF Mass, as a layperson, I would defer to the priest as to how he wished to deal with this irregular posture, and would also in charity do my best to silently and peacefully ascribe a good motive to the standing posture, for example, maybe the person is physically unable to kneel for health reasons.

As for hamburglar’s youth minister, what kind of example was the YM providing to the youth? IMHO, in the moments directly after receiving Communion would be the absolute WORST time to interrupt the recipient and call him out for public criticism, when he may in fact be in the middle of intimate prayer.

~~ the phoenix

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Trumps? I am not saying anything. I am relaying the instructions in the GIRM. The Bishops conference does have much authority, which was given by the vatican.

Lux

But not when it contradicts Rome.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

However, regardless of that authority given to the Bishops, the Vatican says that you can receive communion on your knees.

So my question is, why do you care? If it is legal to kneel why make a big fuss about it? Why do you feel the need to control people when what they are doing is OK.

Nobody should critisize people who stand or kneel, it is a valid choice either way.

I personally don’t kneel in order to make a public statement or anything, it feels right to me and since it is a valid choice I do so.

I find it sad that there are probably people watching me kneel wringing their hands and grinding their teeth at me.

Thank you.

 

[childofmary1143]

For hamburglar, the OP:

May the Holy Spirit lead you and guide you in this matter of kneeling. Will say a quick prayer for you, my friend. And may God bless you abundantly as you discern your vocation.

My own general musings:

When I attend the OF Mass in English, I stand to receive Communion. If I were to see someone kneel, that would be perfectly fine with me … I would be happy to see somone called to such devotion. The OF form of the Mass allows both options. Therefore, both ought to be respected. Simple logic, yes?

When I attend the EF Mass in Latin, I kneel to receive Communion. The EF form of the Mass calls for kneeling. I have no trouble at all “switching gears” and going from a standing position (at my home parish) to a kneeling position (at the downtown parish) to receive Communion.

Now if I saw someone stand to receive Communion at the EF Mass, as a layperson, I would defer to the priest as to how he wished to deal with this irregular posture, and would also in charity do my best to silently and peacefully ascribe a good motive to the standing posture, for example, maybe the person is physically unable to kneel for health reasons.

As for hamburglar’s youth minister, what kind of example was the YM providing to the youth? IMHO, in the moments directly after receiving Communion would be the absolute WORST time to interrupt the recipient and call him out for public criticism, when he may in fact be in the middle of intimate prayer.

~~ the phoenix

Brilliantly said ‘phoenix’:clapping: :clapping: