I guess i'm a bit of a feminist

[angell1]

i think women can do any jobs that men do (not talking about priesthood, ther’s a whole differnt issue) or study the same things in school

and if married, the women should be able to choosre’s to have a career if they want to if it doens’t neglect children. and also to decide how many children they should have. i feel like it’s a sippery slope though, on the one hand, the church says we can decied, on the other “grave reason” is needed for nft. makes me feel like we’re just supposed to have as many kids as possible unless theere is a really big reasons. what if they just want time for other stuff or to provide better education or proper care for just a few? then you get told you’re selfish. catholic families all used to have like 12 kids, now no one is doing that anymore. but i think people are getting married later too.

it’s all very confusing. any thoughts?

 

[SuperLuigi]

i think women can do any jobs that men do (not talking about priesthood, ther’s a whole differnt issue) or study the same things in school

I suppose they can, but many times they don’t.

and if married, the women should be able to choosre’s to have a career if they want to if it doens’t neglect children. and also to decide how many children they should have. i feel like it’s a sippery slope though, on the one hand, the church says we can decied, on the other “grave reason” is needed for nft.

 

[PennyinCanada]

Trusting God begins when you’re single. The ability to put your feet on the floor in the morning, every breath you draw, is by the mercy of God. When that sinks in, that God loves you and cares for you, and you walk in that every day, marriage and children can come into that too.

Let me tell you about my neighbors. They were in their 80’s, had 8 children, who married and had children. I loved to visit them at lunchtime, when they both were sitting at the kitchen table, and see a bouquet of flowers on the table. The phone was always ringing, there were family around to cut the grass, shovel the snow, take the car in for an oil change or put on new tires. Family was always bringing food over and the dad, who had a sweet tooth, had a never ending supply of baking around. I’m not kidding, there always was fresh flowers in the winter and flowers outside in the summer. They loved their family when it was growing, and in their 80s, they enjoyed the extended family, and it was a joy to see.

The dad recently got cancer, and was able to stay home in his final months. He died in his own bed, surrounded by family, with the rosary being recited.

I think we’ve lost this example of family. A husband and wife, married over 60 years, surrounded in love. They never once mentioned their employment and the people there but they had a lot of joy remembering their children. Who took care of them? Their children and grandchildren. My parents have both passed away now, both had cancer. They basically had me, and although I treasure their last years and their last days, it was the lonesomest place on earth to be holding my dad’s hand as he passed on, and left me there by myself, alone. A very different ending to a life.

Now people have 2 children and get sterilized. It’s a very short sighted decision. That’s all we see now and we don’t know any different. I wish you could have been praying the rosary with my neighbor and seen what that was like. He had a blessed life, and may he pray for us.

 

[Graceejou]

From your writing style, I’m guessing you’re pretty young. As you mature more, you’ll see the benefit of each one of the items you listed. I’m in awe of women who stay home and raise their own children…it is the most important job in the entire world and far more important than any career. The fact that there are families out there who sacrifice so mom or dad can stay home and raise their own children reminds me there is good in the world. Even when those children are the ones screaming through mass and throwing their toys at the backs of the heads of those of us in front of them

Don’t focus so much on what you “should” be doing because you’re female or male and instead focus on the gifts and talents God has given you. I assure you, they are perfect and are exactly what He intends for you. Even if that means you’re the one doing the home repairs and your husband does all of the cooking (like in our house). God will give you the amount of children you’re supposed to have, that’s the point of NFP. Obviously, if you have 4 kids and you’re overwhelmed, He doesn’t intend for you to just keep popping them out willy-nilly and expect that blessings will just fall from the sky. He gives you brains to know when enough is enough and to abstain from sex during your fertile times. Live your life day-by-day keeping your eye on eternity, do what you know is right instead of trying to skirt around it by arguing semantics or making excuses and you’ll be absolutely fine.

 

[angell1]

From your writing style, I’m guessing you’re pretty young. As you mature more, you’ll see the benefit of each one of the items you listed. I’m in awe of women who stay home and raise their own children…it is the most important job in the entire world and far more important than any career. The fact that there are families out there who sacrifice so mom or dad can stay home and raise their own children reminds me there is good in the world. Even when those children are the ones screaming through mass and throwing their toys at the backs of the heads of those of us in front of them

Don’t focus so much on what you “should” be doing because you’re female or male and instead focus on the gifts and talents God has given you. I assure you, they are perfect and are exactly what He intends for you. Even if that means you’re the one doing the home repairs and your husband does all of the cooking (like in our house). God will give you the amount of children you’re supposed to have, that’s the point of NFP. Obviously, if you have 4 kids and you’re overwhelmed, He doesn’t intend for you to just keep popping them out willy-nilly and expect that blessings will just fall from the sky. He gives you brains to know when enough is enough and to abstain from sex during your fertile times. Live your life day-by-day keeping your eye on eternity, do what you know is right instead of trying to skirt around it by arguing semantics or making excuses and you’ll be absolutely fine.

oh, i already know that i’m not called to marriage and having children at all, so ti’s not really an issue for me. was just hearing different things from different people so was confused. thanks for your answer though

 

[Robert_Sock]

i think women can do any jobs that men do (not talking about priesthood, ther’s a whole differnt issue) or study the same things in school

and if married, the women should be able to choosre’s to have a career if they want to if it doens’t neglect children. and also to decide how many children they should have. i feel like it’s a sippery slope though, on the one hand, the church says we can decied, on the other “grave reason” is needed for nft. makes me feel like we’re just supposed to have as many kids as possible unless theere is a really big reasons. what if they just want time for other stuff or to provide better education or proper care for just a few? then you get told you’re selfish. catholic families all used to have like 12 kids, now no one is doing that anymore. but i think people are getting married later too.

it’s all very confusing. any thoughts?

I hope I’m not going on a tangent, but the feminist movement is like the mass transportation of society from point ‘A’ to point ‘B.’ Was it all planned? I think so.

I’m a strong believer in equal rights, but I would choose staying at home with the kids!)

LOVE!

 

[snowflakeinlove]

I consider myself a feminist as well.
I don’t think it’s about having as many children as possible though, or that women have to stay at home-I think it’s more about trusting God’s plan for your family, career, etc. and being open to His will - men and women both

 

[wendiek]

The feminists spent 40 plus years making sure they were sexually free and could kill their own babies. I’m embarrassed to be an American woman in her 40’s listening to the “equal pay” noise in the news today. Really? Its 2014 and we are talking about this? Shameful - they too should be embarrassed. Don’t call yourself a feminist - nothing to be proud of there.

 

[Graceejou]

The feminists spent 40 plus years making sure they were sexually free and could kill their own babies. I’m embarrassed to be an American woman in her 40’s listening to the “equal pay” noise in the news today. Really? Its 2014 and we are talking about this? Shameful - they too should be embarrassed. Don’t call yourself a feminist - nothing to be proud of there.

TRUTH!!!

 

[AlTheCollegeGal]

The feminists spent 40 plus years making sure they were sexually free and could kill their own babies. I’m embarrassed to be an American woman in her 40’s listening to the “equal pay” noise in the news today. Really? Its 2014 and we are talking about this? Shameful - they too should be embarrassed. Don’t call yourself a feminist - nothing to be proud of there.

I feel like this issue just keeps going round in circles: the original intent of feminism (a.k.a. first wave feminism) had a noble cause and many great women such as Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony who were ardently pro-life. In fact, even today, there is a wonderful group called Feminists for Life which echoes the same ideals that feminism once was associated with. Lumping several heterogenous individuals under one, uniformly negative blanket term is ridiculous.

 

[on_the_hill]

I’m embarrassed to be an American woman in her 40’s listening to the “equal pay” noise in the news today.

I don’t see the connection between ‘equal pay’ and abortion. Can one be a supporter of equal pay and not be a supporter of “choice?”

 

[Miss_Felicity]

First of all feminist is a bad word around here, just so you know. I am also feminist identified (womanist to be specific). You can be religious, you can be pro life and still believe strongly in your right to decide what type of life is right for you. You can choose your education, your career. If you feel called to marriage, you can prayerfully select a spouse who is supportive of you and whose life goals are similar to and compliment yours.

To my knowledge there is nowhere in the catechism that says you MUST homeschool children. My mother heavily supplemented my education with projects and assignments of her own and from books and other resources but I did go to a regular school. Many of these things are not either or prepositions. You may use NFP, I do not know nearly as much about it as some other posters here so I won’t detail that but to my knowledge as long as you prayerfully welcome children that are conceived even when you were practicing NFP you are not in sin.

My “advice” is to learn to separate facts from opinions, and base your decisions on the facts of your religion and spiritual and what you are called to do over the opinion of others.

 

[Kamaduck]

i think women can do any jobs that men do (not talking about priesthood, ther’s a whole differnt issue) or study the same things in school

and if married, the women should be able to choosre’s to have a career if they want to if it doens’t neglect children. and also to decide how many children they should have. i feel like it’s a sippery slope though, on the one hand, the church says we can decied, on the other “grave reason” is needed for nft. makes me feel like we’re just supposed to have as many kids as possible unless theere is a really big reasons. what if they just want time for other stuff or to provide better education or proper care for just a few? then you get told you’re selfish. catholic families all used to have like 12 kids, now no one is doing that anymore. but i think people are getting married later too.

it’s all very confusing. any thoughts?

Welcome to the “I guess I’m a feminist because I think that women’s issues are important and I’d like to see less systemic sexism, but on the other hand I’m reeeeeally not a fan of the extremely powerful sex-positivity movement and I am really not OK with this whole murdering babies thing” club.

There are many of us in it. I’m not going to tell you where to stand, because that’s something you’ll have to figure out on your own. The important thing is to educate yourself on things that you care about, so you’ll know what kind of changes we need to help make. There are a ton of resources out there and a ton of feminists who disagree with each other, so you really just have to sift through it.

I think that family size and organization is one of those things where there are a lot of “right” ways of doing things, and the best solutions are often different for different people. There are some people who are happy with twelve kids, and can support them. There are some people who can only handle two or three, and there are all kinds of reasons why that might be. There are some people who don’t want to get married at all, and that’s fine, too.

For what it’s worth, I consider myself a sex-negative feminist. Not exactly the most popular label out there, but I suppose we don’t look into these things to become popular.

 

[angell1]

where does the church stand in this club is what i really care about

 

[Kamaduck]

where does the church stand in this club is what i really care about

I would consider it supportive of it. We’re supposed to care about the human dignity of everyone, and that naturally includes women. Fighting rape, pay discrimination, poor media representation, etc. is absolutely compatible with Catholic teaching, as are some of the other stances that tend to go along with it (helping the poor, ending racism, etc).

For me, I am a feminist largely because of my faith. I think it’s wrong that some people have dramatically lowered quality of life because of their gender, and I don’t think Christ would have wanted it this way.

Most of the problems with “feminism” (not all, but most) are actually only problems for sex-positive feminists. They’d be the ones who would support unrestrained sex, which leads to contraception and abortion, and then in turn leads to supporting same-gender sexual activity. That is incompatible with Catholicism, but it is not the only branch of feminism out there. Every feminist disagrees with some other feminist on pretty much every issue. To be a feminist is to think about rather uncomfortable things and hold rather uncomfortable opinions, and ultimately we have to decide for ourselves what we think is going on in the world, and how best to fix it. None of that is incompatible with Catholicism.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

i think women can do any jobs that men do (not talking about priesthood, ther’s a whole differnt issue) or study the same things in school

and if married, the women should be able to choosre’s to have a career if they want to if it doens’t neglect children. and also to decide how many children they should have. i feel like it’s a sippery slope though, on the one hand, the church says we can decied, on the other “grave reason” is needed for nft. makes me feel like we’re just supposed to have as many kids as possible unless theere is a really big reasons. what if they just want time for other stuff or to provide better education or proper care for just a few? then you get told you’re selfish. catholic families all used to have like 12 kids, now no one is doing that anymore. but i think people are getting married later too.

it’s all very confusing. any thoughts?

i think women can do any jobs that men do (not talking about priesthood, ther’s a whole differnt issue) or study the same things in school

Other than professional sports this is not a problem in the North America I am familiar with. Is it where you live?

and if married, the women should be able to choosre’s to have a career if they want to if it doens’t neglect children. and also to decide how many children they should have. i feel like it’s a sippery slope though, on the one hand, the church says we can decied, on the other “grave reason” is needed for nft. makes me feel like we’re just supposed to have as many kids as possible unless theere is a really big reasons.

Again, I don’t really know why this would be a problem. “grave” reason is not needed to use NFP to space. But a “just” reason is. That should be made by the couple with prayer and a relationship with God. NFP is not a requirement and perhaps not even the default but it is licit and can be used. As long as you are open to life and sexual relations are ordered toward procreation, there is no problem there either. But your perspective seems like one that is not married yet. In marriage it is a couple’s decision about kids, it really is not a woman’s issue at all. Perhaps you are misunderstanding what being open to life, NFP, and procreating is really all about. The Church has never taught to have as many as possible.

what if they just want time for other stuff or to provide better education or proper care for just a few? then you get told you’re selfish. catholic families all used to have like 12 kids, now no one is doing that anymore. but i think people are getting married later too.

I don’t know what you mean by provided education. If this means that a couple should not morally have a child unless they can pay for college or Catholic school for each and every child then I would not agree. This is an interesting issue for me and we have talked often on these boards about the seeming discrepancy between NFP in the first world and NFP in the third world. But, taking a cue from Pope Francis and the Bishops who marry people in the third world to have children in poverty I think perhaps we need to make sure our reasons are not as materialistic as our society would have us believe. But again, it is up to the couple.

I say this as a stay at home dad and husband to a scientist wife. So, women pretty much have the rule of the roost around my house… But still, I doubt very much any of my daughters are interested in their exclusion from the football field on Sundays.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I hope I’m not going on a tangent, but the feminist movement is like the mass transportation of society from point ‘A’ to point ‘B.’ Was it all planned? I think so.

I’m a strong believer in equal rights, but I would choose staying at home with the kids!)

LOVE!

I had a few really great “zingers” for this thread…but here we are in agreement soooo it wouldn’t be much fun.

Carry on the good work, Robert.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

but i think people are getting married later too.

it’s all very confusing. any thoughts?

And contracepting a lot. People might not be getting married at the same time in life but that is not stopping 20 somethings from having sex. Contraception may not be the reason for a particular family’s number of children, but it is the biggest reason of societies.

My wife was on a plane with my infant son a week ago.
The woman sitting next to her was nervous, visibly. She started talking to my wife and then told her that she was visiting her baby daddy who was just getting out of jail. She offered that she had three kids with three fathers. My wife politely said congratulations and the woman asked if my son was my wife’s first. My wife smiled and said, no, it is her fourth. The woman’s eyes got real big and she said “All with the same Guy?!” My wife said, Yes, he is my husband!" And the woman said “Wow! Good for you that is amazing”

My wife related this conversation to me and my reaction sadly was not one of surprise. But I do lament the world we live in that doing it right has become the anomaly.

 

[AnnArbor]

The feminists spent 40 plus years making sure they were sexually free and could kill their own babies. I’m embarrassed to be an American woman in her 40’s listening to the “equal pay” noise in the news today. Really? Its 2014 and we are talking about this? Shameful - they too should be embarrassed. Don’t call yourself a feminist - nothing to be proud of there.

I’m assuming what you mean is that it is shameful that women don’t yet receive equal pay … and that the embarrassment would be on the part of those who oppose it.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m assuming what you mean is that it is shameful that women don’t yet receive equal pay … and that the embarrassment would be on the part of those who oppose it.

Who opposes equal pay. Honestly. Equal pay for equal work seems to be the vast majority of thought. Are there politicians or CEO’s who have actually said, No! Women should not get equal pay!"?