I guess I'm not Catholic anymore

[SMHW]

I think this matter is both incredibly simple and somewhat complex at the same time.

I think this might be more complex than simple when judged by Western Catholic standards. While this is definitely a question that fits under the category of Liturgy and Sacraments the OP might get better suggestions for who to contact in the Eastern Catholics forum.

First off, if both of your parents are Eastern Catholics, then you are an Eastern Catholic as well even if you were baptised and raised in the Latin Church. Church membership is transferred through the parents, not through the minister of baptism. So there may be a little legalese to work through. I don’t know if the Latin Church would have legal competency to hear your case, you might need to speak with an Eastern Church Canon Lawyer. You should definitely look into that, and your local Latin diocese will be able to help you with this.

She definitely needs to look into this. She needs to clearly understand to which Catholic Church she belongs.

Secondly, if you did not know that you were marrying an Orthodox Christian, if you did not know that it was an Orthodox wedding, and if you did not have the permission of the Church to marry outside of the Church then you were not validly married. This seems like a clear cut case. If you were given permission to marry outside of the Catholic Church, then I still ponder the validity of the permission, assuming that a Latin ordinary may not have the authority to dispense an Eastern Catholic from Canon Law, since you would be bound by the Eastern Codes, not the Latin Codes.

I’m not sure things are this black and white. But she does need to check out what is required for Eastern Catholics to marry Orthodox and whether or not those rules were followed in a way that would affect validity of the marriage.

**

Everything I’ve said here may not necessarily be the case. This is the best reading possible from the information I have. What I am trying to show you is that your case is not hopeless. You’ve not even begun to explore your options! So keep your chin up!

**

She definitely should not give up!

 

[Cider]

Whether you are married in the church has no bearing on whether your children can be baptized, at least not for Pope Francis.

There are, however, many sources that attribute to him the following statement, also when he was still Cardinal Bergoglio:
In our ecclesiastical region, there are priests who don’t baptize the children of single mothers because they weren’t conceived in the sanctity of marriage.
These are today’s hypocrites. Those who clericalize the church. Those who separate the people of God from salvation. And this poor girl who, rather than returning the child to sender, had the courage to carry it into the world, must wander from parish to parish so that it’s baptized.
This would, again, indicate that he thinks that babies coming from problematic family situations should be baptized.
ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/did-pope-francis-baptize-a-baby-whose-parents-arent-married-12-things-to-kn

This thread has nothing to do with who is currently Pope.

 

[Gorgias]

First off, if both of your parents are Eastern Catholics, then you are an Eastern Catholic as well even if you were baptised and raised in the Latin Church. Church membership is transferred through the parents, not through the minister of baptism.

This is probably true, but not necessarily true. At the time of baptism, it’s possible for the parents to assert that they want the child being baptized to be baptized into the Latin Rite Church rather than the rite of the parents. If such an assertion was made, there should be a notation in the sacramental register for the OP’s baptism. (If this didn’t happen, then you’re correct – she’s a member of the Church of her father (most likely, but that’s yet another bit of legal minutiae)).

Secondly, if you did not know that you were marrying an Orthodox Christian, if you did not know that it was an Orthodox wedding

Let’s see what the OP responds, but it seems that she didn’t say what you wrote here – but rather, merely that she didn’t understand the ceremony. One would presume that when a Catholic walks into an Orthodox Church to be married, one understands (at least at that particular moment, if not earlier) that one’s fiance is Orthodox and the ceremony is, as well.

, and if you did not have the permission of the Church to marry outside of the Church then you were not validly married.

This is not true. There are Orthodox Churches with whom the Catholic Church has sacramental reciprocity; therefore, a marriage in these Orthodox Churches would be presumed valid, if proper form was followed. (That doesn’t mean that a nullity case can’t be made, but it does mean that you cannot assert, a priori, that a valid marriage can not exist.)

Everything I’ve said here may not necessarily be the case. This is the best reading possible from the information I have. What I am trying to show you is that your case is not hopeless. You’ve not even begun to explore your options! So keep your chin up!

Absolutely!

The OP should talk to her parish priest; he would probably ask her, first, to find out if her first husband is still alive. Then they can proceed with any necessary nullity proceedings. In the meantime, there’s no reason why her children cannot be baptized in the Church!

If, as I suspect, your initial marriage was indeed valid, you can very easily then proceed to have your current marriage blessed by the Church.

I think you mean “invalid”, not “valid.”

 

[Cider]

I think this matter is both incredibly simple and somewhat complex at the same time.

First off, if both of your parents are Eastern Catholics, then you are an Eastern Catholic as well even if you were baptised and raised in the Latin Church. Church membership is transferred through the parents, not through the minister of baptism. So there may be a little legalese to work through. I don’t know if the Latin Church would have legal competency to hear your case, you might need to speak with an Eastern Church Canon Lawyer. You should definitely look into that, and your local Latin diocese will be able to help you with this.

Secondly, if you did not know that you were marrying an Orthodox Christian, if you did not know that it was an Orthodox wedding, and if you did not have the permission of the Church to marry outside of the Church then you were not validly married. This seems like a clear cut case. If you were given permission to marry outside of the Catholic Church, then I still ponder the validity of the permission, assuming that a Latin ordinary may not have the authority to dispense an Eastern Catholic from Canon Law, since you would be bound by the Eastern Codes, not the Latin Codes.

Everything I’ve said here may not necessarily be the case. This is the best reading possible from the information I have. What I am trying to show you is that your case is not hopeless. You’ve not even begun to explore your options! So keep your chin up!

Now, if the above is true, it is also true for your current marriage. If you married outside of the Church without dispensation, then you are not validly married. You have not formed a sacramental bond with your husband right now. This isn’t meant to devalue your relationship, and the mutual love you have for one another. And nor is it the end. If, as I suspect, your initial marriage was indeed valid, you can very easily then proceed to have your current marriage blessed by the Church.

Actually the marriage is not considered invalid for that reason according to this document from the USCCB

1. what kind of preparation do we
   need to marry?

In keeping with the friendly relationship between our churches, a Catholic-Orthodox couple considering marriage should work closely with both of their pastors regarding appropriate mar- riage preparation courses. Each will also need to obtain the permission of his or her local bishop (or his delegate) to marry the other, and the Catholic will need a special dispensation from the Catholic bishop if the wedding is to take place before an Orthodox priest. During this process, the Catholic will be asked to state that he or she intends to remain a Catholic. The dispensation to marry in an Orthodox service is necessary only for the lawfulness of the marriage. If it takes place without the dispensation, the Catholic Church still considers the marriage to be valid if both parties were free to marry.

 

[O_Sapientia]

Actually the marriage is not considered invalid for that reason according to this document from the USCCB

Hm. I’m not sure how right that is. No source is cited for this statement. An illicit yet valid marriage? I want to see something from a higher authority which states the same.

 

[HelenRose]

I think that you should talk to another priest. First, I don’t think that the annulment process requires a ten page paper from your first husband. If he cannot be located or doesn’t want to cooperate, then the process can still go forward. Second, because your first marriage was to a non-Catholic, it may not have been valid if you did not receive a dispensation for your local bishop. If that is the case, then your annulment is easy–it’s basically filling out a form, and your first husband would not even be contacted. Third, if illicit orthodox weddings are recognized in the Catholic Church, then the fact that you have an orthodox annulment should help you get receive a catholic annulment because it means that the wedding was not properly celebrated. I strongly encourage you to investigate it further.

Additionally, please remember to put the annulment process in perspective. The Church is trying to protect the sacred institution of marriage.

God bless you and your family.

My son and his first wife were married far to young. Neither were Catholic but they were married in a Protestant Church. Several years ago, he was dating a Catholic girl and thought that he would marry her. So… he applied for an annulment. I have no idea how this works in other parishes but for my son this was the best, most healing thing he has ever done. He received the annulment. Studying all the wrong reasons why he married her and studying all the wrong reasons why she married him, gave him wonderful insight as to what a real marriage could be. As it turned out he did not marry this Catholic girl but it gave him a firm foundation for marrying his now lovely wife. They are married for all the right reasons.

The decree of annulment was so kind and explained with great charity why their union was not a valid marriage. I do hope, that if you seek an annulment you will find the same compassion and concern that my son found.

 

[Gorgias]

Hm. I’m not sure how right that is. No source is cited for this statement.

There are sources listed right in the document itself.

An illicit yet valid marriage?

Yes. It is possible for a sacrament to be valid, yet celebrated illicitly, you know…

I want to see something from a higher authority which states the same.

Right. 'Cause a national conference of Catholic bishops probably doesn’t know what it’s talking about…