I have a book can I start my own religion?

[TLara]

So if I bought a copy of the Torah can I start my own sect of Judaism or if I bought a Quran could I start my own sect of Islam? The reason I ask is because that is exactly what is happening with the Catholic faith. The Holy Bible is our Bible written for our religion for use in our church. We were first called Christians by non-Christians because we followed Christ. They used the term to single us out so they would know who to persecute. What gives you non-Catholics(excluding orthodox) the right to take our Bible, start your own religion and call yourselves by our persecuted name. To truly have Faith in Christ is to trust and believe in the Church he founded. In almost every debate on this forum Catholics will defend their reasoning by saying Jesus said this and non-catholics will almost always say but Paul said this!

 

[Sister_Amy]

Why does it bother you?

 

[TemplarKnight]

So if I bought a copy of the Torah can I start my own sect of Judaism or if I bought a Quran could I start my own sect of Islam? The reason I ask is because that is exactly what is happening with the Catholic faith. The Holy Bible is our Bible written for our religion for use in our church. We were first called Christians by non-Christians because we followed Christ. They used the term to single us out so they would know who to persecute. What gives you non-Catholics(excluding orthodox) the right to take our Bible, start your own religion and call yourselves by our persecuted name. To truly have Faith in Christ is to trust and believe in the Church he founded. In almost every debate on this forum Catholics will defend their reasoning by saying Jesus said this and non-catholics will almost always say but Paul said this!

I would not be opposed to addressing this with you in more detail but I’m afraid I need a more specific question and/or example of what and why this is bothering you. Are you talking about the various protestant denominations or are you speaking about jews and muslims?

 

[justinthemartyr]

You can start any religion you want. That does not make it valid in the sight of God though. There are thousands of religions in the world, lutheranism, calvinism(presbyterianism) etc…
the list is never ending.

 

[fbl9]

So if I bought a copy of the Torah can I start my own sect of Judaism or if I bought a Quran could I start my own sect of Islam? The reason I ask is because that is exactly what is happening with the Catholic faith. The Holy Bible is our Bible written for our religion for use in our church. We were first called Christians by non-Christians because we followed Christ. They used the term to single us out so they would know who to persecute. What gives you non-Catholics(excluding orthodox) the right to take our Bible, start your own religion and call yourselves by our persecuted name. To truly have Faith in Christ is to trust and believe in the Church he founded. In almost every debate on this forum Catholics will defend their reasoning by saying Jesus said this and non-catholics will almost always say but Paul said this!

well sure why not…if you are going to start a christain church make sure the book you have has the words Holy Bible printed on the front though.and make sure you wave it around in the air as if it was some magic tailsman.

 

[wisdomseeker]

So if I bought a copy of the Torah can I start my own sect of Judaism or if I bought a Quran could I start my own sect of Islam? The reason I ask is because that is exactly what is happening with the Catholic faith. The Holy Bible is our Bible written for our religion for use in our church. We were first called Christians by non-Christians because we followed Christ. They used the term to single us out so they would know who to persecute. What gives you non-Catholics(excluding orthodox) the right to take our Bible, start your own religion and call yourselves by our persecuted name. To truly have Faith in Christ is to trust and believe in the Church he founded. In almost every debate on this forum Catholics will defend their reasoning by saying Jesus said this and non-catholics will almost always say but Paul said this!

No you may not. we have too many already. from now on nobody can make up another religion. i had enough it.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

However, as God points out to Homer Simpson, “Nine out of ten religions fail in their first year”.​

So there you have it - from the Big Cheese Himself.

 

[LilyM]

Why does it bother you?

Would it not bother you if someone took your Holy Book, your Quran, revealed to your Prophet, and began a new cult misinterpreting and reading things into the Quran that simply weren’t there (say that Mohammed was a reincarnation of Moses, that Mohammed was God, that Muslims should pray facing Rome because Islam sprang from Catholicism, instead of Mecca) ???

 

[J_C]

However, as God points out to Homer Simpson, “Nine out of ten religions fail in their first year”.​

So there you have it - from the Big Cheese Himself.

wow, just like restaurants.

but, yeah, i think that is true. I made up my own religion once. I was the pope of it. and for awhile I was even the very god of it. but it failed really bad, and i was forced to go on my knees to the One True God. he was real forgiving.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

So if I bought a copy of the Torah can I start my own sect of Judaism or if I bought a Quran could I start my own sect of Islam? The reason I ask is because that is exactly what is happening with the Catholic faith. The Holy Bible is our Bible written for our religion for use in our church.

**The expressions “our Church” & “my Church” should be avoided - the Church is no man’s, but God’s, & God’s alone. We are in no sense its creators, makers, owners or lords - God is all of these, & God alone. If we think of it as ours, there is the danger that shall into thinking of it as “our project, that we have thought up & are entitled to meddle with”. If it is thought to be “ours”, there is the danger of treating it as a purely worldly organisation existing for purely worldly ends (such as its own glory & splendour), & not as the creation of God’s grace that it is. And if we think in a worldly way, we will degrade it What is a degraded Church good for ? **​

We were first called Christians by non-Christians because we followed Christ. They used the term to single us out so they would know who to persecute. What gives you non-Catholics(excluding orthodox) the right to take our Bible,

**But it’s not: if it “belongs to” anyone, it belongs to God; not to any man or Church or any other created thing. Christians are stewards - not owners. And the unfaithful servant, who wronged & beat his master’s other servants, when his master came back suddenly was judged, condemned, and “thrown into outer darkness where there is ****wailing and gnashing of teeth”. So the CC is in no position to domineer over anyone - it will be punished if it does: just like anyone else. **​

start your own religion and call yourselves by our persecuted name.

**Protestants have often suffered cruelly at the hands of Catholics - this does not mean that both groups have not suffered at one another’s hands; but is just the point - neither can claim a monopoly of persecution by the other, each has persecuted & otherwise wronged the other, & neither can accuse the other as though it alone had blood on its hands. And - of course - there were excellent reasons for each to wrong or kill the other: there always are. But hasn’t Christ taught us a better way than this ? **​

**St. Paul is very relevant here, for he saw that Gentile and Jew were alike & equally subject to the Righteousness of God condemning them as sinners. God’s Righteousness cuts through our divisions: & applying that to this, it is a waste of time for Catholics & Protestants to find complain against each other : both are guilty when measured by that Righteousness - so these sectarian squabbles are pointless. **

To truly have Faith in Christ is to trust and believe in the Church he founded. In almost every debate on this forum Catholics will defend their reasoning by saying Jesus said this and non-catholics will almost always say but Paul said this!

**The only way we know of either’s words, is through the Holy Bible. People who disparage St. Paul, Christ’s “chosen vessel” (a description applied to no-one else in all Scripture) do not know what they are missing. Catholics who do this are exactly like their Protestant counterparts who disparage the BVM - neither has eyes to see what is unmistakable to the other. **​

**Catholics who set Paul against His Saviour are like those Evangelicals who set the sacraments against Christ; both groups make the same mistake, of setting secondary causes against the Cause of all secondary causes. **

 

[Swan]

**The expressions “our Church” & “my Church” should be avoided - the Church is no man’s, but God’s, & God’s alone. We are in no sense its creators, makers, owners or lords - God is all of these, & God alone. If we think of it as ours, there is the danger that shall into thinking of it as “our project, that we have thought up & are entitled to meddle with”. If it is thought to be “ours”, there is the danger of treating it as a purely worldly organisation existing for purely worldly ends (such as its own glory & splendour), & not as the creation of God’s grace that it is. And if we think in a worldly way, we will degrade it What is a degraded Church good for ? **​

**But it’s not: if it “belongs to” anyone, it belongs to God; not to any man or Church or any other created thing. Christians are stewards - not owners. And the unfaithful servant, who wronged & beat his master’s other servants, when his master came back suddenly was judged, condemned, and “thrown into outer darkness where there is ****wailing and gnashing of teeth”. So the CC is in no position to domineer over anyone - it will be punished if it does: just like anyone else. **​

**Protestants have often suffered cruelly at the hands of Catholics - this does not mean that both groups have not suffered at one another’s hands; but is just the point - neither can claim a monopoly of persecution by the other, each has persecuted & otherwise wronged the other, & neither can accuse the other as though it alone had blood on its hands. And - of course - there were excellent reasons for each to wrong or kill the other: there always are. But hasn’t Christ taught us a better way than this ? **​

St. Paul is very relevant here, for he saw that Gentile and Jew were alike & equally subject to the Righteousness of God condemning them as sinners. God’s Righteousness cuts through our divisions: & applying that to this, it is a waste of time for Catholics & Protestants to find complain against each other : both are guilty when measured by that Righteousness - so these sectarian squabbles are pointless.

**The only way we know of either’s words, is through the Holy Bible. People who disparage St. Paul, Christ’s “chosen vessel” (a description applied to no-one else in all Scripture) do not know what they are missing. Catholics who do this are exactly like their Protestant counterparts who disparage the BVM - neither has eyes to see what is unmistakable to the other. **​

**Catholics who set Paul against His Saviour are like those Evangelicals who set the sacraments against Christ; both groups make the same mistake, of setting secondary causes against the Cause of all secondary causes. **

Fantastic response!

 

[Sister_Amy]

Would it not bother you if someone took your Holy Book, your Quran, revealed to your Prophet, and began a new cult misinterpreting and reading things into the Quran that simply weren’t there (say that Mohammed was a reincarnation of Moses, that Mohammed was God, that Muslims should pray facing Rome because Islam sprang from Catholicism, instead of Mecca) ???

Actually, people do in fact do this. They take the Qur’an and create new cults misinterpreting it, and reading things into it that aren’t there. It happens, and I’m resigned to the fact. Just like with other holy scriptures, by the way.

But it doesn’t bother me that much, because I know that God is in control, and I believe that God will preserve the religion that is for Him, and nothing can harm Him. So it doesn’t bother me if people find new and various ways to fall into error. Isn’t that what Satan does, lead people astray?

 

[LilyM]

Actually, people do in fact do this. They take the Qur’an and create new cults misinterpreting it, and reading things into it that aren’t there. It happens, and I’m resigned to the fact. Just like with other holy scriptures, by the way.

But it doesn’t bother me that much, because I know that God is in control, and I believe that God will preserve the religion that is for Him, and nothing can harm Him. So it doesn’t bother me if people find new and various ways to fall into error. Isn’t that what Satan does, lead people astray?

Of course they do - but don’t you feel inclined to do anything to help them see that they’re in error? They’re condemning their eternal souls by continuing on their Satanic path, and you can help (potentialy) save them.

Why are you here if not to discuss your religion with us? Why discuss it if you’ve no hopes that at least some of us will be drawn towards it and away from Satan’s clutches?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Of course they do - but don’t you feel inclined to do anything to help them see that they’re in error? They’re condemning their eternal souls by continuing on their Satanic path, and you can help (potentialy) save them.

Why are you here if not to discuss your religion with us? Why discuss it if you’ve no hopes that at least some of us will be drawn towards it and away from Satan’s clutches?

Muslims believe that God guides whom He wills. I can’t save anyone, or as you put it ‘help’ save them. If God guides them, nobody can lead them astray, and if God lets them go astray then nobody can guide them. Mind you, none of us who know who will be guided or not.

There is a verse in the Qur’an:

And if Allah should afflict you with harm, then there is none to remove it but He; and if He intends good to you there is none to repel His grace; He brings it to whom He pleases of His servants; and He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

I tell people about Islam because I am commanded to do that. But I know that I can’t force it on anyone, and I know that most people won’t accept it. I just tell people about it because that’s kind of what I’m supposed ot do. But guidance is only from God.

 

[LilyM]

Muslims believe that God guides whom He wills. I can’t save anyone, or as you put it ‘help’ save them. If God guides them, nobody can lead them astray, and if God lets them go astray then nobody can guide them. Mind you, none of us who know who will be guided or not.

There is a verse in the Qur’an:

And if Allah should afflict you with harm, then there is none to remove it but He; and if He intends good to you there is none to repel His grace; He brings it to whom He pleases of His servants; and He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

I tell people about Islam because I am commanded to do that. But I know that I can’t force it on anyone, and I know that most people won’t accept it. I just tell people about it because that’s kind of what I’m supposed ot do. But guidance is only from God.

But what is the point of you telling me about Islam then? If only Allah will guide me to the Muslim faith, and then only if he wants to, how can any words of yours have any effect at all? Aren’t you just kinda wasting your breath?

 

[Sister_Amy]

But what is the point of you telling me about Islam then? If only Allah will guide me to the Muslim faith, and then only if he wants to, how can any words of yours have any effect at all? Aren’t you just kinda wasting your breath?

Maybe God will guide you. Or someone else who is posting. Or someone who is reading but not posting. And maybe something I say inspires them to go seek out more knowledge about Islam, and Muslims, and then later they become Muslim. I’m not here thinking that I’m going to be able to just talk you into converting.

But more importantly, it’s a commandment from God. So I believe, as a Muslim, that if I obey God’s commandments that there is a reward with Him. And if I disobey, then I am accountable to Him. That simple, really.

 

[bengal_fan]

i have a computer, can i start a thread where i just rant and don’t really contribute anything of substance?

 

[LilyM]

Maybe God will guide you. Or someone else who is posting. Or someone who is reading but not posting. And maybe something I say inspires them to go seek out more knowledge about Islam, and Muslims, and then later they become Muslim. I’m not here thinking that I’m going to be able to just talk you into converting.

But more importantly, it’s a commandment from God. So I believe, as a Muslim, that if I obey God’s commandments that there is a reward with Him. And if I disobey, then I am accountable to Him. That simple, really.

‘Maybe something I say inspires them’ - in other words God can work through you to infuence others, just as He may possibly work through me to influence those I talk to, so for that reason I talk about my faith to those with whom I disagree, including yourself.

So you think God commands you to do something that could ultimately be totally meaningless and unreasonable, and you don’t care whether or not there is any reason behind it? We believe that faith works together with reason, and that everything we believe God commands is reasonable - even if we have to think and study to understand the reason.

And you obey simply because you hope for a reward from Him or fear having to make account to Him? Not, for example, because you love Him unselfishly for His goodness, and want to do His will for its own sake, regardless of whether He rewards or punishes you or not?

 

[Sister_Amy]

‘Maybe something I say inspires them’ - in other words God can work through you to infuence others, just as He may possibly work through me to influence those I talk to, so for that reason I talk about my faith to those with whom I disagree, including yourself.

So you think God commands you to do something that could ultimately be totally meaningless and unreasonable, and you don’t care whether or not there is any reason behind it? We believe that faith works together with reason, and that everything we believe God commands is reasonable - even if we have to think and study to understand the reason.

Actually I believe that God only commanded something that is beneficial. There wouldn’t be a command to do it if it were meaningless or unreasonable. Even if I don’t know all the reasons, I do believe that everything that has been commanded in Islam is to benefit to Muslims. Likewise, everything that has been forbidden is because it is harmful. So I believe everything has wisdom (not just a reason, but wisdom!) behind it. I can try to comprehend that wisdom but I trust in God, but I do believe that everything has the wisdom and reason behind him, even if I don’t understand.

And you obey simply because you hope for a reward from Him or fear having to make account to Him? Not, for example, because you love Him unselfishly for His goodness, and want to do His will for its own sake, regardless of whether He rewards or punishes you or not?

Let me give you this analogy. A very early scholar of Islam described a bird–it has a head and two wings. He said that love of God is the head, and that the two wings are hope, and mercy. Meaning everything has to work together–the right intention, which is the love of God, and then fear equal to the hope in mercy. But above that still is the love of God.

So if you don’t love God then you don’t know where you’re going. Without hope and fear in equal portions then you won’t be able to get there.

 

[Gara3987]

So if I bought a copy of the Torah can I start my own sect of Judaism or if I bought a Quran could I start my own sect of Islam? The reason I ask is because that is exactly what is happening with the Catholic faith. The Holy Bible is our Bible written for our religion for use in our church. We were first called Christians by non-Christians because we followed Christ. They used the term to single us out so they would know who to persecute. What gives you non-Catholics(excluding orthodox) the right to take our Bible, start your own religion and call yourselves by our persecuted name. To truly have Faith in Christ is to trust and believe in the Church he founded. In almost every debate on this forum Catholics will defend their reasoning by saying Jesus said this and non-catholics will almost always say but Paul said this!

I think that I understand what you are saying exactly. The Bible (Greek for the books) is a Catholic book, why would one revolt against Christ Church?

The answer is simple, people begin to believe that The Roman Catholic Church has fallen into complete error, and that they will be able lead people to heaven themselves (Martin Luther is a perfect example). The problem with this thought process is that these Protestants would be saying that our Lord has lied to us; for we must remember what Our Lord Declared:

“And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Matthew 16: 18 DRB]
&
“Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.” Matthew 28: 20 DRB]

Our Lord Christ promised us that His Church (the Roman Catholic Church) will never fall, and that he will be with us till the end of time.

We must also remember that Our Lord said, “I am the Truth.” What is truth? Truth omits error, it is conformity to reality or actuality. He founded his Church and said, “And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen” [Matthew 18: 17]. Again He told His Apostles, “he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me” [Luke 10: 16] and, “He that is not with me, is against me” Luke 11:23; Matth. 12:30]. Would you come to believe that if Our Lord is truly present in the Holy Eucharist, would He be every bit as pleased with the doctrine of those who deny that He is present there?

Our Lord Founded His through Pope Saint Peter alone, not Martin Luther, or Henry VIII, etc. and then He says **if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen **[Matth. 18, 17]

Saint Paul, in his Second Epistle to the Thessalonians, [1 : 7–10], states:

    “And to you who are troubled, rest with us when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven, with the angels          of his power: In a flame of fire, giving vengeance to them who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of          our Lord Jesus Christ.   Who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord,          and from the glory of his power: When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be made wonderful in          all them who have believed; because our testimony was believed upon you in that day.”

Also, in the same Epistle [2 : 8–11] Saint Paul says:

    “And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and          shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him, Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in          all power, and signs, and lying wonders, And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they          receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore **God shall send** them the operation of error, to believe lying:          That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity.”

                             Those who break away from Rome contravene what our Lord has ensured us about his Church, that She will never fall.