I have a new Mormon friend who is trying to convert me I think

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Hi everyone. The bishop (pastor) of the Mormon church that I used to go to gave my phone number (and address I think) to a lady from the Mormon church. She contacted me and she acted like she was trying to convert me back to Mormonism which I most certainly do not want to do. I am willing to be friends with her but I do not want to be converted back to Mormonism. I am not sure what to do. She is a former Catholic. She asked me what my main reason was for leaving the Mormon church and I told her it was because I did not believe in the “Great Apostasy”. I told her that there was absolutely no evidence that the “Great Apostasy” ever occurred and that Catholics go all the way back to Jesus and the apostles to which she responded that Mormons do too. Obviously that is not true but I don’t know how to respond to that. What should I say to her? How do I handle this situation?

P.S. I didn’t know what forum to put this in so I chose this one. Help! 😊
 
I’d ask her to explain how the Mormon church dates itself back to Christ, and also be ready with a (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm) of popes dating back to Peter.

I know it must be a little bit scary considering you’re a new convert, but consider it a privilege to be the spark that just might lead a wayward Catholic back to the faith! Invite her to come to mass with you!
 
Hey Holly,

I think the answer is going to be on how secure you are in your faith.

If you’re real secure and confident in your faith, this may be an opportunity to witness to this woman. This forum and the main website www.catholic.com have great resources for talking to Mormons.

If you’ve just become Catholic a while ago, you might want to steer clear.

If she’s an older woman it’d be easy to say you’re not interested in being friends - ie you aren’t the same age so it’d be obvious WHY she wants to be friends with you.

If you are close in age, just be honest with her. Tell her that you don’t mind being friends but you’re not going to talk about religion right now. Then learn, learn, learn.

When I first met my first Mormons I went to my local seminary/monaster and checked out a book on Mormons (that was before Catholic Answers or least before I was aware of them). Now CA is usually the first place I go.

Way back when I got some of the “Beginning Apologetics” series from CA. The 2nd one is on mormons & JWs. Not a bad investment.

SIDENOTE: Thanks for your post, as I looked to make sure there was one for Mormons, I saw I have one on JWs and I’ve been entertaining some JWs lately.

Once you get a little more secure in your faith and are able to readily defend it, I like engaging those kinds of people.

Good luck and God bless!
 
Hey Holly,

I think the answer is going to be on how secure you are in your faith.

If you’re real secure and confident in your faith, this may be an opportunity to witness to this woman. This forum and the main website www.catholic.com have great resources for talking to Mormons.

If you’ve just become Catholic a while ago, you might want to steer clear.

If she’s an older woman it’d be easy to say you’re not interested in being friends - ie you aren’t the same age so it’d be obvious WHY she wants to be friends with you.

If you are close in age, just be honest with her. Tell her that you don’t mind being friends but you’re not going to talk about religion right now. Then learn, learn, learn.

When I first met my first Mormons I went to my local seminary/monaster and checked out a book on Mormons (that was before Catholic Answers or least before I was aware of them). Now CA is usually the first place I go.

Way back when I got some of the “Beginning Apologetics” series from CA. The 2nd one is on mormons & JWs. Not a bad investment.

SIDENOTE: Thanks for your post, as I looked to make sure there was one for Mormons, I saw I have one on JWs and I’ve been entertaining some JWs lately.

Once you get a little more secure in your faith and are able to readily defend it, I like engaging those kinds of people.

Good luck and God bless!
Oh okay. Thank you. I think I will simply ask her not to debate with me on Mormonism or Catholicism until I am stronger in the Faith and until I know more about how to defend Catholicism against Mormonism. 🙂
 
Not that I’m an expect or anything, but I always think the one book that may be helpful to a Mormon would be A Father Who Keeps His Promises by Scott Hahn. You might want to take a look at it and maybe share it with her. She might appreciate it especially since she’s a former Catholic. In it, Dr. Hahn gives an interesting take on Covenant History.

Kathy
 
Not that I’m an expect or anything, but I always think the one book that may be helpful to a Mormon would be A Father Who Keeps His Promises by Scott Hahn. You might want to take a look at it and maybe share it with her. She might appreciate it especially since she’s a former Catholic. In it, Dr. Hahn gives an interesting take on Covenant History.

Kathy
Thank you for this post Kathy. I will look in to the book. Unfortunately, I don’t have nearly enough money to buy the book at this time I don’t think and I’d have to buy it online most likely because I do not have a credit card and I doubt that my Grandma would let me use her credit card to buy religious material online. I don’t even have a checking account anymore so I can’t use my check card either.
 
I’m not sure the advice to stay clear of your friend is the answer.

This is the sort of advice the Mormons gave my friends, who converted to them. They were to stay clear of devote Catholics and associate only with Mormons. We lost our friends do to this.

Are we advising the same thing here?

If you are strong in your faith, you should have no worry. In fact, just be a good Catholic, and perhaps your friend will be inspired to follow you into the Catholic Faith.

God Bless
Jim
 
I’m not sure the advice to stay clear of your friend is the answer.

This is the sort of advice the Mormons gave my friends, who converted to them. They were to stay clear of devote Catholics and associate only with Mormons. We lost our friends do to this.

Are we advising the same thing here?

If you are strong in your faith, you should have no worry. In fact, just be a good Catholic, and perhaps your friend will be inspired to follow you into the Catholic Faith.

God Bless
Jim
Okay. Thank you for this post Jim. This lady is a former Catholic. She believes that all priests have a “high and mighty” as if they were “god” type of demeanor. This is unfortunate. I told her that every priest I have ever met was humble and that is the truth. I also told her that perhaps they were just very devout priests and she’s like “Oh no, they thought they were god. You could tell it by the way they performed Mass and such.” This is all paraphrasing by the way. :mad:

Anyway, thanks!
 
Holly,
keep in mind that this woman needs to justify to herself, why she left the Catholic Church. She use any misconception she experienced when she was in the Church, as well as misconceptions and rumors of other Catholics.

When she does such a thing, ask her if faith in Jesus Christ has opened her heart? She’ll answer yes of course, then you can ask why she holds on to the misconceptions she had, when she was a Catholic, instead of learning the truth ?

Jim
 
Hi everyone. The bishop (pastor) of the Mormon church that I used to go to gave my phone number (and address I think) to a lady from the Mormon church. She contacted me and she acted like she was trying to convert me back to Mormonism which I most certainly do not want to do. I am willing to be friends with her but I do not want to be converted back to Mormonism. I am not sure what to do. She is a former Catholic. She asked me what my main reason was for leaving the Mormon church and I told her it was because I did not believe in the “Great Apostasy”. I told her that there was absolutely no evidence that the “Great Apostasy” ever occurred and that Catholics go all the way back to Jesus and the apostles to which she responded that Mormons do too. Obviously that is not true but I don’t know how to respond to that. What should I say to her? How do I handle this situation?

P.S. I didn’t know what forum to put this in so I chose this one. Help! 😊
Wow. Sounds like a double whammy. 🙂

You’ve got your work cut-out for ya’. However, instead of waiting for your friend to “push” mormonism on you, you should take the lead and ask her, “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?” See what reaction that gets. Depending on how long she was a catholic it may or may not illicit a reaction of remorse or nostalgia in her.

Now, if the cultic nature of mormonism has taken its toll on her, you may want to try another approach. “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.” This is the way to test the spirit in her. She must repeat verbatim. Not just agree with you, but repeat without variation.
Go with what you know, the basics: The Divinity of Jesus Christ, the True and Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, “I and the Father are one”. Mormons have a poly-theistic confusion about the Triunicity and Unicity of the Godhead.

When she attempts to take the lead on mormon rhetoric…simply tell her what your articles of faith are. The Creed. When you say it to her, say it as conversation but recite it exactly…Well, I believe in One God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth etc etc.
If she interrupts you, pick it back up where you left off - "well, I also believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord the giver of life etc etc.

Sometimes a simple verbal resolution of how firm your catholicism is will suffice to deflect the attempts of any mormon or jehovah witness.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
 
Thank you for this post Kathy. I will look in to the book. Unfortunately, I don’t have nearly enough money to buy the book at this time I don’t think and I’d have to buy it online most likely because I do not have a credit card and I doubt that my Grandma would let me use her credit card to buy religious material online. I don’t even have a checking account anymore so I can’t use my check card either.
I was cruising around in order to find something specific you could show her and discovered something I think would be useful. Here’s the link. It deals with “The Great Apostosy” which is a theory that all Mormons believe in. Hopefully it will help you at least a bit. Maybe you can do a bit more searching on your own and find some more helpful articles.

catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9203fea.asp

Kathy
 
Hi Holly. Maybe this link from EWTN (Global Catholic Network) will help you to be able to answer this lady’s questions. It describes the doctrinal errors of Mormon Baptism (which would be at least a starting point… to explain why you’ve come Home to the Catholic Church). Trust in God, for He is with you.

ewtn.com/library/theology/mormbap1.htm
 
Wow. Sounds like a double whammy. 🙂

You’ve got your work cut-out for ya’. However, instead of waiting for your friend to “push” mormonism on you, you should take the lead and ask her, “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?” See what reaction that gets. Depending on how long she was a catholic it may or may not illicit a reaction of remorse or nostalgia in her.

Now, if the cultic nature of mormonism has taken its toll on her, you may want to try another approach. “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.” This is the way to test the spirit in her. She must repeat verbatim. Not just agree with you, but repeat without variation.
Go with what you know, the basics: The Divinity of Jesus Christ, the True and Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, “I and the Father are one”. Mormons have a poly-theistic confusion about the Triunicity and Unicity of the Godhead.

When she attempts to take the lead on mormon rhetoric…simply tell her what your articles of faith are. The Creed. When you say it to her, say it as conversation but recite it exactly…Well, I believe in One God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth etc etc.
If she interrupts you, pick it back up where you left off - "well, I also believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord the giver of life etc etc.

Sometimes a simple verbal resolution of how firm your catholicism is will suffice to deflect the attempts of any mormon or jehovah witness.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
Oh okay. Should I just simply say “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.” and then she should automatically repeat that exact phrase or what? :confused: Also, thanks for your other advice.
I was cruising around in order to find something specific you could show her and discovered something I think would be useful. Here’s the link. It deals with “The Great Apostosy” which is a theory that all Mormons believe in. Hopefully it will help you at least a bit. Maybe you can do a bit more searching on your own and find some more helpful articles.

catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9203fea.asp

Kathy
Thanks Kathy. I will check it out. 🙂
Hi Holly. Maybe this link from EWTN (Global Catholic Network) will help you to be able to answer this lady’s questions. It describes the doctrinal errors of Mormon Baptism (which would be at least a starting point… to explain why you’ve come Home to the Catholic Church). Trust in God, for He is with you.

ewtn.com/library/theology/mormbap1.htm
Thanks MarieVeronica. That looks helpful. 🙂
Here’s another link that may be helpful. It’s a website that was put together by a former Mormon. I hope it’s helpful.

transporter.com/apologia/mormcath.htm

Kathy
Thanks again Kathie. I will check this out as well. 🙂
 
Holly,
you should avoid debating with your friend. Just explain that you have your faith and you have no desire to leave. As her to please respect your faith, and let it be.

Debate will only drive the two of you apart with less chance for reconciliation.

Jim
 
Okay. Thank you for this post Jim. This lady is a former Catholic. She believes that all priests have a “high and mighty” as if they were “god” type of demeanor. This is unfortunate. I told her that every priest I have ever met was humble and that is the truth. I also told her that perhaps they were just very devout priests and she’s like “Oh no, they thought they were god. You could tell it by the way they performed Mass and such.” This is all paraphrasing by the way. :mad:

Anyway, thanks!
I don’t know if there is a tactfull way, or if it is even wise, to to say this to your new friend, but aren’t Mormon men the one’s who think they will be Gods (literally)?

Anyway, maybe this link will help you.

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0112.html

There are a couple other articles on this site that can be found by searching with the word “mormon”

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
Oh okay. Thank you. I think I will simply ask her not to debate with me on Mormonism or Catholicism until I am stronger in the Faith and until I know more about how to defend Catholicism against Mormonism. 🙂
fI agree that is a good idea. However don’t let that stop you learning ALL there is about the Holy Spirit.
I used to have a lot of Mormans Jws around and I would converse all my strength on the bible.
Two points that stood out to be were that they only know what they are aloud to know. Meaning that they don’t get into the Holy Spirit, and if they mention a point from the bible that is the only point they know. I would ask them to read the point leading to their point and they would say that they didn’t know it, and i would ask how they came about thinking that what they knew was exact since Jesus tell’s us that His ways are not our ways, so how can the mormam way be correct. Also how can any of their understanding have truthful fruit since they donot accept the leading by the Holy Spirit.

Godbless.
 
Hi everyone. The bishop (pastor) of the Mormon church that I used to go to gave my phone number

P.S. I didn’t know what forum to put this in so I chose this one. Help! 😊
Hi, what fun. What an opportunity for you to learn and teach. I wouldn’t pass it up if I were you. Mormonism is a very easily proved fraud. The LDS church has repeatedly directly and indirectly admitted Joseph Smith wrong, duped etc. Start out with the following example:

The Kinderhook Plates… In official LDS Church History a fraud was perpetrated against Joseph Smith. A group of men brought Joseph a set of plates they at first claimed they found buried. Joseph Smith accepted these plates as authentic and even claimed that he had translated a portion of them. History of the Church vol. 5, p. 372. The following is attributed to Joseph Smith:
Code:
    "I insert fac-similes of the six brass plates found near Kinderhook,...

    "I have translated a portion of them and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the Ruler of heaven and earth."   If Joseph Smith had not been murdered in June 1844, it is very possible he might have published a complete "translation" of these  plates. Just a month before his death it was reported that he was "busy in translating them. The new work... will be nothing more nor less than a sequel to The Book of Mormon;..." (Warsaw Signal May 22, 1844) The fact that Joseph Smith was actually preparing to print a translation of the plates is verified by a broadside published by the Mormon newspaper, The Nauvoo Neighbor, in June 1843. On this broadside, containing facsimiles of the plates, we find the following: "The contents of the Plates, together with a Fac-Simile of the same, will be published in the 'Times and Seasons,' as soon as the translation is completed."
After the plates were found, nine “citizens of Kinderhook” certified that R. Wiley took the “six brass-plates” from “a large mound, in this vicinity.” Unfortunately for the Mormon position, it was later revealed that the plates were forgeries. On April 25, 1856, W. P. Harris, who was one of the nine witnesses to the discovery of the plates, wrote a letter in which he stated that the plates were not genuine: “…I was present with a number at or near Kinderhook and helped to dig at the time the plates were found… I… made an honest affidavit to the same… since that time, Bridge Whitten said to me that he cut and prepared the plates and he… and R. Wiley engraved them themselves… Wilbourn Fugit appeared to be the chief, with R. Wiley and B. Whitten.” (The Book of Mormon?, by James D. Bales, pp. 95-96)

As proof these plates were a fraud, later close examinations were done as the story resurfaced, and the LDS church tried to defend Joseph Smiths original claims. George M. Lawrence, a Mormon physicist was given permission to examine and make “some non-destructive physical studies of the surviving plate.” In his “Report of a Physical Study of the Kinderhook Plate Number 5,” George Lawrence wrote: The dimensions, tolerances, composition and workmanship are consistent with the facilities of an 1843 blacksmith shop and with the fraud stories of the original participants." Since Mr. Lawrence was only allowed to make non-destructive tests, some Mormon scholars would not accept his work as conclusive. In 1980, however, the Mormon scholar Stanley P. Kimball was able “to secure permission from the Chicago Historical Society for the recommended destructive tests.” Professor Kimball described the results of the tests in the official Mormon Church publication, The Ensign, August 1981, pp. 66-70: “A recent electronic and chemical analysis of a metal plate… brought in 1843 to the prophet Joseph Smith… appears to solve a previously unanswered question in Church history, helping to further evidence that the plate is what its producers later said it was - a nineteenth-century attempt to lure Joseph Smith into making a translation of ancient-looking characters that had been etched into the plates… As a result of these tests, we concluded that the plate… is not of ancient origin… we concluded that the plate was made from a true brass alloy (copper and zinc) typical of the mid-nineteenth century; whereas the ‘brass’ of ancient times was actually bronze, an alloy of copper and tin.”
Here we see that LDS experts in the most official magazine of the LDS church admitted that Joseph was duped into making a translation of forged plates set up to catch him as a fraud. Joseph showed great ability and imagination in doing this translation. Easily with his talent he created the BOM in the same manner.
I would start here then move on to the Papyrus of the Book of Abraham (which the LDS church also admits indirectly is a fraud) then on to Josephs prophecies in the D&C (most of which failed) You should find ample ammunition for these discussions on the web. However if you have trouble just ask I have hard hitting arguments on these and many other points that I have all ready to go…

Tiber diving team of 2004 (we go deeper!)
 
Hi, what fun. What an opportunity for you to learn and teach. I wouldn’t pass it up if I were you. Mormonism is a very easily proved fraud. The LDS church has repeatedly directly and indirectly admitted Joseph Smith wrong, duped etc. Start out with the following example:

The Kinderhook Plates… In official LDS Church History a fraud was perpetrated against Joseph Smith. A group of men brought Joseph a set of plates they at first claimed they found buried. Joseph Smith accepted these plates as authentic and even claimed that he had translated a portion of them. History of the Church vol. 5, p. 372. The following is attributed to Joseph Smith:
Code:
    "I insert fac-similes of the six brass plates found near Kinderhook,...

    "I have translated a portion of them and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the Ruler of heaven and earth."   If Joseph Smith had not been murdered in June 1844, it is very possible he might have published a complete "translation" of these  plates. Just a month before his death it was reported that he was "busy in translating them. The new work... will be nothing more nor less than a sequel to The Book of Mormon;..." (Warsaw Signal May 22, 1844) The fact that Joseph Smith was actually preparing to print a translation of the plates is verified by a broadside published by the Mormon newspaper, The Nauvoo Neighbor, in June 1843. On this broadside, containing facsimiles of the plates, we find the following: "The contents of the Plates, together with a Fac-Simile of the same, will be published in the 'Times and Seasons,' as soon as the translation is completed."
After the plates were found, nine “citizens of Kinderhook” certified that R. Wiley took the “six brass-plates” from “a large mound, in this vicinity.” Unfortunately for the Mormon position, it was later revealed that the plates were forgeries. On April 25, 1856, W. P. Harris, who was one of the nine witnesses to the discovery of the plates, wrote a letter in which he stated that the plates were not genuine: “…I was present with a number at or near Kinderhook and helped to dig at the time the plates were found… I… made an honest affidavit to the same… since that time, Bridge Whitten said to me that he cut and prepared the plates and he… and R. Wiley engraved them themselves… Wilbourn Fugit appeared to be the chief, with R. Wiley and B. Whitten.” (The Book of Mormon?, by James D. Bales, pp. 95-96)

As proof these plates were a fraud, later close examinations were done as the story resurfaced, and the LDS church tried to defend Joseph Smiths original claims. George M. Lawrence, a Mormon physicist was given permission to examine and make “some non-destructive physical studies of the surviving plate.” In his “Report of a Physical Study of the Kinderhook Plate Number 5,” George Lawrence wrote: The dimensions, tolerances, composition and workmanship are consistent with the facilities of an 1843 blacksmith shop and with the fraud stories of the original participants." Since Mr. Lawrence was only allowed to make non-destructive tests, some Mormon scholars would not accept his work as conclusive. In 1980, however, the Mormon scholar Stanley P. Kimball was able “to secure permission from the Chicago Historical Society for the recommended destructive tests.” Professor Kimball described the results of the tests in the official Mormon Church publication, The Ensign, August 1981, pp. 66-70: “A recent electronic and chemical analysis of a metal plate… brought in 1843 to the prophet Joseph Smith… appears to solve a previously unanswered question in Church history, helping to further evidence that the plate is what its producers later said it was - a nineteenth-century attempt to lure Joseph Smith into making a translation of ancient-looking characters that had been etched into the plates… As a result of these tests, we concluded that the plate… is not of ancient origin… we concluded that the plate was made from a true brass alloy (copper and zinc) typical of the mid-nineteenth century; whereas the ‘brass’ of ancient times was actually bronze, an alloy of copper and tin.”
Here we see that LDS experts in the most official magazine of the LDS church admitted that Joseph was duped into making a translation of forged plates set up to catch him as a fraud. Joseph showed great ability and imagination in doing this translation. Easily with his talent he created the BOM in the same manner.
I would start here then move on to the Papyrus of the Book of Abraham (which the LDS church also admits indirectly is a fraud) then on to Josephs prophecies in the D&C (most of which failed) You should find ample ammunition for these discussions on the web. However if you have trouble just ask I have hard hitting arguments on these and many other points that I have all ready to go…

Tiber diving team of 2004 (we go deeper!)
Thank you xMormon. Anyway, she is coming over to visit tomorrow and I will defend the Church to the best of my ability. Thank you all for your help and your prayers.
 
Hi again, One more suggestion. If you need in depth answers to tough questions about our church (Catholic) go to www.catholic.com they have concise right to the point answers for even the hardest questions…
 
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