I have a question- Enlighten Me

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Mr.Koehler said:
Sorry if I ask , but if yours sins are forgiven , then why is there purgatory ?
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Sins are forgiven when we take advantage of the Sacrament of Reconcilliation. It is here we seek God’s mercy and forgiveness. We seek to come back to God, to say Yes to His love. We still have the penalty to pay so to speak. We still have some penance to do in our Salvation. That is where purgatory comes in, its for our purification so we are made pure and can see the Beatific vision.

Indulgences, partial and full, help remit that penance we might have that we owe in purgatory.
 
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There are certain plenary indulgences that you can get all the time, for example praying the rosary with family or with a group, reading sacred scripture for 30 minutes, or going to adoration for 30 min. (There are other requirements for gaining any indulgence in addition to the required act, like going to confession, receiving communion, praying for the Pope, etc… You can look up all the requirements.)

There are other plenary indulgences you can only get on a certain day, like praying the Tantum Ergo on the Feast of Corpus Christi. Or praying for the Holy Souls at a cemetery during the first week of November. (After All Souls’ Day.) You can look up a list of other examples.

You can also get a partial indulgence instead of a plenary. A plenary indulgence has more requirements like I mentioned above, but it gets rid of temporal punishment for ALL sin. A partial indulgence, as the name implies, is just partial remittance of sin. Here’s an article that explains it.

 
Yes thank you. So , If I understand rightly , when a man asks for forgiveness , it is forgiven , but he owes Christ reparations for the sin ? Lutheranism says that once a man asks for forgiveness , that is it , so this is a new concept for me , but I think Lutheranism is wrong here grounded on those verses
 
That is what happens. We still owe reparation to God. In His mercy God allows us to work it off by indulgences.
 
Mr.Koehler said:
Yes thank you. So , If I understand rightly , when a man asks for forgiveness , it is forgiven , but he owes Christ reparations for the sin ? Lutheranism says that once a man asks for forgiveness , that is it , so this is a new concept for me , but I think Lutheranism is wrong here grounded on those verses
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Let’s say I steal a five dollar bill from you. I have sinned. Later, I am contrite, and I confess my sin with a contrite heart and am forgiven by God. Am I now totally clean? No–I still have the ill-gotten five dollars in my wallet. I still carry with me that injustice. What is the fruit worthy of my repentance for stealing? To give it back, or, if that is not possible, to give it as alms or make some other amends. A sin should not make me come out ahead–Jesus’ sacrifice does not mean we get to benefit unjustly from sin. I think even a staunch Lutheran would agree with this.

Every sin carries with it some kind of stain of injustice, even if intangible, including honor we should have given to God which we did not. Yes, Christ reconciles us as only He can, but we should still try and give back to God what we should have given Him (even though we can’t really completely–it’s the good will in it that “satisfies”) just as we would our neighbor we have sinned against. Most priests assign prayer as a penance for this reason, since by it we give honor and love to God. As the passage from Hebrews explained, sometimes God exacts this Himself through chastisements, which bring his children the “fruit of justice.”

Indulgences are help for the weak brother (most of us, really), who is truly contrite but may have difficulty making satisfaction, while others merit overabundantly. The contrite incestuous man in Corinth was an example of the former, and St. Paul the latter. Christ tells us to help bear each other’s burdens so we help each other expiate that injustice–like St. Paul says in the verse from Colossians I posted in a prior post, St. Paul filled up what was lacking in the rest of the body, that is, in the other members of the Church, the Body of Christ (nothing is lacking in Christ Himself). An indulgence is the bishops stewarding and distributing this to those who need it. It applies the superabundant fruit of some members, to where it is lacking in others.
 
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The Catechism has this
An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints…
To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence . Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain…
The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the “old man” and to put on the "new man.
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Mr.Koehler said:
I never thought of it like that. Does a man still go through Purgatory if he ask for forgiveness ?
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I’m not sure I like most of the answers here, so I’ll add my 2¢ worth.

You rob a store. You are arrested and brought to trial. At the trial you say you are sorry. The judge believes you. You still go to jail. Saying you are sorry doesn’t eliminate the punishment for a crime / sin.
Purgatory is punishment for sin–but not mortal sin. But note that sorrow for sin (confession) must come before an indulgence. And if you commit a mortal sin, confession does reduce the punishment from Hell to Purgatory,.

Indulgences: today you generally see things like “one year’s indulgence” etc. Some misinterpret that as taking one year off Purgatory. But that’s not it. If a prayer has “one year’s indulgence” attached to it, saying it counts as much as if you applied the ancient canonical punishments for a year. Plenary indulgence wipes the slate clean–all punishment gone. But it’s not a magic spell–you have to be sincere in your wish to avoid sin, sincere in saying the prayer, etc. Intent is everything.

And yes, they used to sell indulgences. Theoretically possible, but in practice corrupt. Obviously it led to the idea that you could sin all you wanted and then buy your way out. That’s not the way it works–again, the intent is the key thing. Today no Catholic would support selling indulgences. Luther was right on this one!

But you really need to understand a bit of history. Certain religious ideas became more popular in certain periods. In the 11th and 12th c. the idea of Purgatory became more popular and was analyzed more. But of course this coincided with the era of the Crusades. You got a plenary indulgence if you went on a Crusade. But what if you couldn’t go to Palestine for some reason? Could you get the indulgence by some other means? And of course the church said, “Sure. Contribute money for the new cathedral or the new hospital” or whatever. And at the same time old feudal practices such as owing a day’s labor to the lord of the manor every week were gradually being transformed from actual work to a monetary payment. So all these ideas came together at the same time, and presto, we had indulgences that could be bought and sold. But, as I said, it’s obvious (and should have been obvious at the time!) that corruption would creep into such a system.

The Council of Trent condemned the sale of indulgences in 1563 and Pope Pius V ended them in 1567.
 
Look at it this way. Suppose I vandalized your car. I was angry, drunk, whatever. Afterward, I was really sorry and apologized to you. You forgive me. But wouldn’t you still expect me to pay for the damages? That’s what purgatory is. We repay for our forgiven sins. There are biblical references for praying for the dead. If they’re in Heaven, they have no need for prayers. If they’re in hell, prayers won’t help them. So there must be another place.
 
Catholic Answers has several good apologetics tracts on indulgences.

I recommend you start with these two:


www.catholic.com

What About Indulgences?

In a nutshell, our belief in indulgences is rooted in the fact that we are sinners in need of God’s mercy. We all sin and will incur punishment for our sins, ei...
www.catholic.com www.catholic.com

And then you could move on to these:

www.catholic.com

What's Wrong with a Little Indulgence?

October 31, 1517, is sometimes celebrated as the birth date of the Protestant Reformation. It was on this day that Martin Luther reportedly nailed his Ninety-Fi...
www.catholic.com www.catholic.com

www.catholic.com

Offering a Plenary Indulgence for the Souls in Purgatory

Offering a Plenary Indulgence for the Souls in Purgatory - Video
www.catholic.com www.catholic.com


A couple things for you to keep in mind:
  1. Indulgences are sort of “advanced Catholicism”. The Church doesn’t push them, and nowadays many Catholics do not know or understand about indulgences and do not seek to get them. However, they are often sought by Catholics who are either trying to help the soul of a deceased loved one, or else practicing a regular devotion of praying for the Holy Souls in Purgatory.
  2. The Church tends to give indulgences for prayerful activities that they want to encourage, such as saying the Rosary, making the Stations of the Cross, going to Adoration, and reading Scripture. It’s like a “carrot on a stick” to get Catholics to do things that the Church thinks will help the person doing the indulgenced work to grow closer to God, as well as helping others who might benefit from the prayers said by the person. During the Year of Mercy, there was an indulgence attached to walking through “Holy Doors” located at certain churches. Obviously the idea was to get people to go back to church and hopefully also to confession (which is required for plenary indulgences). It worked for me, I got interested in the idea of the “Holy Doors” so I walked through the “Holy Doors” and ended up returning to active Catholic practice.
 
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Also, note that Purgatory is not a “place” or destination…it’s a state, a process.

I got hung up on that as well as the issue of indulgences when I was exploring the Catholic faith way back. I don’t have much to add concerning them…other posters in this thread have pretty well covered it.
 
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