I have a question: How are protestants doing without the Pope?

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wisdomseeker said:
Hummmm… you dont see a problem there? there is no authority to tell them what to believe. So, all they doing is confusing people who in turn dont know who to believe. they are not helping the CC.
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I think you are insulting Catholics, friend. I think most would argue that they are perfectly capable of thinking for themselves and that the Church’s teachings inform their decisions. Saying the Pope tells Catholics what to believe make Catholics seem like Stepford Wives.
 
wisdomseeker said:
Hummmm… you dont see a problem there? there is no authority to tell them what to believe. So, all they doing is confusing people who in turn dont know who to believe. they are not helping the CC.

Pope Damasus I
“Likewise it is decreed . . . that it ought to be announced that . . . the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it” (Decree of Damasus 3 [A.D. 382]).
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Okay come on. Seriously. Having authority might make you right and okay someday in heaven but in the world know Catholics are not any better off with authority. I do not see that at all. All sorts of surveys show that Catholics do not follow their authority on most matters.
So yes, possibly, if you are right, you get to heaven quicker than we do. Maybe…possibly.
But I cannot see any real practical implications. Most Catholics seem to be of the cafeteria variety. No of course that does not make you any less right if you are but certainly your authority on anything tangible is not any different from any other group in a practical sense.
 
Conor7 said:
I think you are insulting Catholics, friend. I think most would argue that they are perfectly capable of thinking for themselves and that the Church’s teachings inform their decisions. Saying the Pope tells Catholics what to believe make Catholics seem like Stepford Wives.
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We think with the mind of Church, we read the Bible with the mind of the Church. Our conscience is formed by the Church. this is not an insulting but a joy to all Catholics.

So, how are you all doing without the Pope? who tells you what to believe?

Synod of Ambrose****

**“We recognize in the letter of your holiness [Pope Siricius] the vigilance of the good shepherd. You faithfully watch over the gate entrusted to you, and with pious care you guard Christ’s sheepfold [John 10:7ff], you that are worthy to have the Lord’s sheep hear and follow you” (Synodal Letter to Pope Siricius [A.D. 389]). **
 
wisdomseeker said:
But do they know the Teachings of Christ. How are they to teach what they do not know?

they claim to understand the Bible and Catholic Church does not. Women preaching and they say they understand the Bible and CC does not. Some with the Bible are marrying man with man and so forth. they still say they know the Bible more than the CC.
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Stop painting everyone with just **black and white, **it’s not polite.

The teachings of Christ in the bible are self evident - love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself 🙂

‘They’ don’t claim Catholics don’t understand the bible

Catholics don’t even agree on what the bible says completely SHOCK :eek:
 
wisdomseeker do you really believe that most denominations do not have authorities that TRY to tell them what to do:confused:
 
wisdomseeker said:
We think with the mind of Church, we read the Bible with the mind of the Church. Our conscience is formed by the Church. this is not an insulting but a joy to all Catholics.

So, how are you all doing without the Pope? who tells you what to believe?

Synod of Ambrose****

**“We recognize in the letter of your holiness [Pope Siricius] the vigilance of the good shepherd. You faithfully watch over the gate entrusted to you, and with pious care you guard Christ’s sheepfold [John 10:7ff], you that are worthy to have the Lord’s sheep hear and follow you” (Synodal Letter to Pope Siricius [A.D. 389]). **
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ALL Catholics???
 
BrianH said:
Okay come on. Seriously. Having authority might make you right and okay someday in heaven but in the world know Catholics are not any better off with authority. I do not see that at all. All sorts of surveys show that Catholics do not follow their authority on most matters.
So yes, possibly, if you are right, you get to heaven quicker than we do. Maybe…possibly.
But I cannot see any real practical implications. Most Catholics seem to be of the cafeteria variety. No of course that does not make you any less right if you are but certainly your authority on anything tangible is not any different from any other group in a practical sense.
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But before the world, which Christ wants to gain their souls, how are you helping the Cause of Christ when the world dont know who to belief? this is no help to the CC.

**Synod of Ambrose

“We recognize in the letter of your holiness [Pope Siricius] the vigilance of the good shepherd. You faithfully watch over the gate entrusted to you, and with pious care you guard Christ’s sheepfold [John 10:7ff], you that are worthy to have the Lord’s sheep hear and follow you” (Synodal Letter to Pope Siricius [A.D. 389]). **
 
wisdomseeker said:
So, how are you all doing without the Pope? who tells you what to believe?
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I don’t know what you’re driving at, but here is my response to who tells us what to believe: Christ and he trumps the Pope. Capisce?
 
Conor7 said:
I don’t know what you’re driving at, but here is my response to who tells us what to believe: Christ and he trumps the Pope. Capisce?
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Hummmm…so, Christ tells the CC one thing, then you guys another? unless of course you are saying that Christ do not lead the CC.

**Synod of Ambrose

“We recognize in the letter of your holiness [Pope Siricius] the vigilance of the good shepherd. You faithfully watch over the gate entrusted to you, and with pious care you guard Christ’s sheepfold [John 10:7ff], you that are worthy to have the Lord’s sheep hear and follow you” (Synodal Letter to Pope Siricius [A.D. 389]). **
 
wisdomseeker said:
But before the world, which Christ wants to gain their souls, how are you helping the Cause of Christ when the world dont know who to belief? this is no help to the CC.

**Synod of Ambrose

“We recognize in the letter of your holiness [Pope Siricius] the vigilance of the good shepherd. You faithfully watch over the gate entrusted to you, and with pious care you guard Christ’s sheepfold [John 10:7ff], you that are worthy to have the Lord’s sheep hear and follow you” (Synodal Letter to Pope Siricius [A.D. 389]). **
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You mean proslytizing non-Christians? Well we do really well in Africa and other countries:D
VERY mixed depending on the conference in the US:o
 
wisdomseeker said:
We think with the mind of Church, we read the Bible with the mind of the Church. Our conscience is formed by the Church. this is not an insulting but a joy to all Catholics.

So, how are you all doing without the Pope? who tells you what to believe?
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This is so NOT TRUE!
Pew Research shows the majority of US Catholics disagree with ‘the mind of Church’ on key issues of doctrine.
 
wisdomseeker said:
Hummmm…so, Christ tells the CC one thing, then you guys another? unless of course you are saying that Christ do not lead the CC.
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I don’t understand this. Do want my equivalent to the Pope? As an Anglican it’s the Archbishop of Caterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams, first among equals.
 
BrianH said:
Absolutely! We agree.
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We’ve always been free to be wrong. Adam & Eve were free to think they knew better than God. But should we ever draw a line? Should there be no faith, no commands? Should we give up on authority altogether?

The JWs read from their authority, scripture, and believe Jesus isn’t God. Baptists believe in believer’s baptism only, others believe in infant baptism. Many think no baptism is necessary for salvation, while others consider it essential. Some think works are a sign of ones faith, which alone justifies, while others think faith and works together are a sign of ones *love, which alone justifies. Some believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist and celebrate it regularly while others practice it randomly as a simple memorial service. Some believe salvation is universal while others say it’s only for the elect, and that the non-elect are predestined by God to hell. Some say God loves everyone unconditionally and Christ died for all, while others believe God hates the wicked and Christ only died for some. Some believe Christians always remain filthy sinners but covered by the blood of Jesus (imputed righteousness) so long as we believe, while others say the New Covenant promises to actually make *us righteousness. Some think we can never lose our salvation, and that if we fall away we never were saved, while others think we can be saved, turn away from God and lose salvation, then repent and come back within Gods grace.

If you happen onto a non-Catholic Christian forum, you may come away believing Catholics are completely united in faith by contrast (not that it really matters so long as the Catholic faith, itself, is a unified body of beliefs), and nearly one in faith with the Orthodox as well, given the huge array of beliefs you’ll encounter-all made possible by sola scriptura. I’ve always pretty much admired Methodism-but so what? They can rejoin the Church of Christ then and practice Wesley’s methods there. Yeah, I know, ‘dream on’, but I’m just a dyed-in-the-wool papist, ya see.

Anyway, who’s going to draw the line? Who decides what is essential to the faith and what isn’t?
 
I think many non-Catholics feel a need for a ‘pope’ like person in their lives. However, the difference is that many of the people that are treated as the ‘font of knowledge’ in the protestant world are usually very likable and charismatic. The current crop very rarely discuss anything that might come close to hellfire and brimstone like they used to.

The Pope is not always the most loveable person in a teddy-bear or goldie hawn (a la Laugh-in sort or way). He promotes hard teachings that even we American Catholics don’t want to hear or think about. Yet we tend to stick with him anyway because we know that what God asks of us isn’t always easy.

I think that one of the things most people want is confirmation of their beliefs and a source that they can use to say – see, I’m not the only one that thinks this way, so does so-and-so, who being famous, is therefore a reliable explanation why I believe and or practice the way I do. Practicing Catholics don’t always ‘like’ their Pope, but they tend to stick with him. Many (but not all, so please don’t accuse me of painting all Protestants with the same brush) non-catholics find themselves new ‘Popes’ with the change of the weather.

So I would say that the protestants are not doing well. There are too many controversial teachings and new ones being added every day because most protestants do not have a reliable father guiding their christian family.
 
For the record, I have never read a more convoluted thread where this many people misunderstood everything everyone else was saying. Literally everything I’ve said so far has been completely misunderstood.

Facepalming aside, I don’t care if you’re Roman Catholic like me or Third High Episcopalutheradist, that’s pretty sad if we christians can’t even talk to each other. I suspect more than one person here is purposefully “playing dumb.”
 
It all comes down to authority and our acceptence or rejection of it.
 
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