I have a question on art

[TabulaRasa]

Recently, I have found interesting the numerous rendition of the tarot deck.

I understand that the mere word “tarot” might immediately be associated with divination and the like. I would like to make clear that this is not the type of tarot I wish to discuss. To put it plainly, I am speaking of a tarot without divination, without occultic aspirations, etc.

However, previous posters have had a vehement stance against tarot regardless of what it might be used for.

A particular artist whose work I have come to admire has started a tarot deck project.

puimun.deviantart.com/journal/2732919/

Is something like this inherently wrong if one has no intention to venture into the occult? The archetypes in the major arcana surely are not unique to the tarot alone.

I thought room for variation on a common theme was an extraordinary opportunity for practice in developing technique or just brainstorming in general. The preset template of the tarot deck (at least the major arcana) makes this type of practice much easier, in my opinion.

I would like to rephrase that this question does not ask about tarot as a tool of the occult. Honestly, if one were so inclined, playing cards could probably be used for divination and whatnot. This is solely in regards to an artistic exercise (which I understand is not a universal cop out, hence the question).

The only concern is that certain posters have posited that there is an intrinsic “evil” to the tarot, a claim which I am quite skeptical of. Yet, I do not know everything, and look forward to hearing thoughts reaffirming what I suspect, or thoughts that present a solid rationale for other options.

Sorry for being picky, but I would like posts with a bit more than emotional appeal or good-intentioned fear-mongering. A bit of reason in the responses would be highly appreciated. (I hope that didn’t come off as condescending…)

Thank you in advance.

 

[That_one_guy]

As a former occultist I should say that the origins of the Tarot deck are a mystery.Of course, I am inclined to warn you about it.But,at the same time I have to say that I also know that certain organizations of a nefarious character understand what they call “the lure of the forbidden”.Which is to say,that by merely posting this question,no matter how innocent YOUR intentions may be, it will open the doors to innocent inquiring young minds to investigate the topic and cause them (by their own thirst for knowledge) to be lured in to the traps of the evil one.
So,it is my duty to alert the forum moderators to this post.Sorry.Call me a snitch if you like…

 

[Lujack]

As a former occultist I should say that the origins of the Tarot deck are a mystery.Of course, I am inclined to warn you about it.But,at the same time I have to say that I also know that certain organizations of a nefarious character understand what they call “the lure of the forbidden”.Which is to say,that by merely posting this question,no matter how innocent YOUR intentions may be, it will open the doors to innocent inquiring young minds to investigate the topic and cause them (by their own thirst for knowledge) to be lured in to the traps of the evil one.
So,it is my duty to alert the forum moderators to this post.Sorry.Call me a snitch if you like…

That seems absurd. There are masturbation threads on this forum, and it is infinitely more likely for a teenager to masturbate than to get involved in tarot.

 

[That_one_guy]

That seems absurd. There are masturbation threads on this forum, and it is infinitely more likely for a teenager to masturbate than to get involved in tarot.

Wow.That was quick!!!I had just changed my mind and deleted my post.
I get a little riled up sometimes.Sorry.I was wrong.It’s not my problem.OOPS!!!

 

[narrowpath]

I realize that tarot divination is a sin, but I don’t think that simply painting them ould be. Those are beautiful cards…

 

[SamDash]

That seems absurd. There are masturbation threads on this forum, and it is infinitely more likely for a teenager to masturbate than to get involved in tarot.

With respect, your response seems absurd. No one is going to come across a masturbation thread and think, “Gee, I wonder what masturbation is like.”

The occult is nothing to play around with. What is one supposed to do with those cards? Frame them and put them on a wall?

There is so much worthier art. How about some prayer cards?

 

[That_one_guy]

With respect, your response seems absurd. No one is going to come across a masturbation thread and think, “Gee, I wonder what masturbation is like.”

The occult is nothing to play around with. What is one supposed to do with those cards? Frame them and put them on a wall?

There is so much worthier art. How about some prayer cards?

Thankyou,sir.

 

[TabulaRasa]

With respect, your response seems absurd. No one is going to come across a masturbation thread and think, “Gee, I wonder what masturbation is like.”

The occult is nothing to play around with. What is one supposed to do with those cards? Frame them and put them on a wall?

There is so much worthier art. How about some prayer cards?

Perhaps framing them on the wall would be appropriate, seeing as that’s a common practice with large prints.

You approach the topic with an assumption that the subject matter of the tarot is “unworthy”. Whether or not this assumption is justified or not, I do not know. However, strong assertions without explanation do little to answer my question.

I am curious how the tarot is intrinsically occult in your eyes. The subject matter of the cards themselves are not overtly vulgar or crude, are not intrinsically heretical (at least from what I see), and serves as an elaborate metaphor if anything.

The origins are quite mundane, mere playing cards if I remember correctly. The divination bit is a spin on this by later individuals, I believe.

What is it about these that are intrinsically wrong, if anything at all? The artist I linked to in the first post has beautiful paintings based on the tarot; barring individual intent, is there anything wrong about these paintings in and of themselves?

Sorry if I give the impression that I’m closed to new answers; I like to think that I’m not. I simply want rationale along with the assertion.

Regardless, I thank you for your reply.

 

[That_one_guy]

Perhaps framing them on the wall would be appropriate, seeing as that’s a common practice with large prints.

Not if you’re a Christian who is truly seeking holiness.

You approach the topic with an assumption that the subject matter of the tarot is “unworthy”.

It’s not unworthy,its UNCHRISTIAN.These are Catholic Answers Forums.NOT occult answers forums.

Whether or not this assumption is justified or not, I do not know.

The assumption you have made is NOT justified.

However, strong assertions without explanation do little to answer my question.

Your question doesn’t need to even be in these forums in my opinion.

I am curious how the tarot is intrinsically occult in your eyes.

Have you ever seen a tarot deck in church?

The subject matter of the cards themselves are not overtly vulgar or crude, are not intrinsically heretical (at least from what I see), and serves as an elaborate metaphor if anything.

Sounds to me like you feel guilty and are trying to get Catholics to accept this so you don’t feel so guilty

The origins are quite mundane, mere playing cards if I remember correctly. The divination bit is a spin on this by later individuals, I believe.

What is it about these that are intrinsically wrong, if anything at all?

Deuteronomy 18:10
"There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,

The artist I linked to in the first post has beautiful paintings based on the tarot; barring individual intent, is there anything wrong about these paintings in and of themselves?

That’s nice.But,inappropriate for CHRISTIANS!!!:banghead:

Sorry if I give the impression that I’m closed to new answers; I like to think that I’m not. I simply want rationale along with the assertion.

I don’t think you’re closed to new answers.I think you chose the wrong forums.You walked into a church looking for a prostitute.I suppose it could happen to anyone!

Regardless, I thank you for your reply.

Why don’t you take this question to an art forum or an occult forum?

 

[Lujack]

With all due respect, none of that really answers his question. It is quite clear that the use of tarot cards for divination is of the occult. What is not so clear is whether or not paintings in a tarot style, using traditional tarot motifs, or even the physical cards themselves, are.

 

[That_one_guy]

With all due respect, none of that really answers his question. It is quite clear that the use of tarot cards for divination is of the occult. What is not so clear is whether or not paintings in a tarot style, using traditional tarot motifs, or even the physical cards themselves, are.

It the person wants to put tarot pictures up in his house,that is up to him.READ MY POST.If s/he considers themself to be a Christian who is truly seeking holiness then the pictures are probably inappropriate.
The physical cards are probably not a danger in themselves.They are inert matter.The ideas which the cards represent are a different matter.
It’s as if this person said.“Is it ok to wear a pentagram or an inverted cross?”
It’s like saying,“Is it ok to listen to maralyn manson?”

If its about Christian art I can see the relevance.The person left the word tarot out of the thread title.I am questioning the sincerity of the question.It is baited.This is the sort of thing that Satanists, Wiccans, Setians, etc,do for fun as a sort of subversive way of trying to undermine the Church.I’m not making this up!They enjoy this stuff.Its called “The lure of the forbidden.”

 

[Lujack]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Viscontisforzatarot.jpg

Is that art, in and of itself, occult?

 

[That_one_guy]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Viscontisforzatarot.jpg

Is that art, in and of itself, occult?

What sort of question is that?You know that art in and of itself is not occult.It is the content of the art and the intention for its location of display.
I’m not interested in your link.I have had a lot of tarot decks in the past.
MY concern,which you obviously weren’t able to grasp, is the inappropriateness of the disguised title and the inappropriateness of the question as pertains to Catholics.Maybe this example will be a little simpler for you to understand.

title; a question about jewelry

“I have just found this fabulous little pentagram.It is engraved with little runes and has been dipped in chicken blood.Do you think I should wear it?”

 

[KephasAugustine]

IMHO–and only IMHO–I just don’t see the point of having Tarot cards unless you’re going to use them for something. And what is that something? The occult. Bear with me, let me finish.

To me, Tarot cards seem to be the opposite of holy cards–why have it if you’re not going to use it? The art may be pretty, but a holy card is just a piece of paper with a picture on it unless you pray. The spiritual lure of a holy card leads people to pray the prayers thereupon–would the spiritual lure of a tarot card be just as strong?

In the Act of Contrition during every Confession, Catholics say "and I firmly resolve with Your grace to avoid sin and the near occasion of sin. It seems to me that having those cards in one’s house would be an occasion for that person to sin. It would seem to be an opening for the demon world to tempt and persuade the person to “see what all the hype is about.”

As someone who has been involved in Spiritual Warfare for some years, I have seen the very visible effects of someone just ‘having’ tarot cards. It’s kind of like “just having” a bong–sooner or later, the person wants to smoke out of it. Now, these are just my personal musings and observations, no highly theological statements. Still, I have seen the evil of these things take hold of someone who very innocently thought they were cool. I’d stay away, regardless of how pretty they are.

And I’ll leave you with this, because the language and imagery (heh) seem to apply:
“The woman saw that the tree was good for food, pleasing to the eyes, and desirable for gaining wisdom. So she took some of its fruit and ate it; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.”
–Genesis 3:6
The Fall of Man

I hope you find what you’re looking for.

 

[YipYupYep]

This may seem harmless, however, it may not be.

Just the mere presence of occult drawings in you home may, in time, create hooks on the people living there upon which evil spirits can attach themselves to.

I would never in a million years put such a thing in my home. I dont want to sound holier than thou, but for me and this house, we serve the Lord. Serving the Lord can and usually is a bit hard, but No occult images in the home is easy. Just dont do it. The wily one is just lurking around the corner for its chance. Dont open your door to him. Instead, put up a picture of The Master in his Divine Mercy. Keep the enemy away, dont invite him. Ward him off with Sacred images.

Then, there is scandal. You friends and neighbors seeing a thing like that in your home “gives the appearance of sin”

“And he shall look on the plague, and, behold, if the plague be in the walls of the house with hollow streaks, greenish or reddish, which in sight are lower than the wall;” Leviticus 14:37

 

[Sam_Maloney]

The art is lovely, if not particularly original.

But why does it need to be linked to Tarot?

As an artist, I’ve always felt that an image must stand on it’s own without commentary or context to make it’s point. If it doesn’t, it isn’t art: it’s only illustration.

 

[KephasAugustine]

As an artist, I’ve always felt that an image must stand on it’s own without commentary or context to make it’s point. If it doesn’t, it isn’t art: it’s only illustration.

I’m an artist, and I very much disagree. This may be another topic for another thread at another time, but if art didn’t have a context, it wouldn’t exist. Inspiration, presentation, these all need a context. And art is never without commentary–the artist puts commentary in his or her very art.

Of course, this isn’t a discussion on what art is. Like I said, another time, another place.

More to the point: Tarot cards come with their own “commentary.” One is death. One is temperance, one is holiness, one is judgment…they stand for something, each one is designed very specifically, like Kings, Queens, and Jacks in ordinary playing cards. In fact, I’m not sure it’s a question of art at all.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

To put it plainly, I am speaking of a tarot without divination, without occultic aspirations, etc.

Sorry. You can’t divorce the art from the function. Tarot cards are pointers, even if not actively used for divination, into the occult, which is an inherent evil, and are therefore not to be promoted in any way whatsoever.

Is something like this inherently wrong if one has no intention to venture into the occult?..

Yes, dealing in any way with tarot is inherently wrong.

The only concern is that certain posters have posited that there is an intrinsic “evil” to the tarot, a claim which I am quite skeptical of.

Why are you skeptical about it?

:shamrock2:

 

[theistgal]

Interestingly, Cardinal Hans Urs von Balthasar wrote a very approving “afterword” to a book called “Meditations on the Tarot: A Journey into Christian Hermeticism” (author “Anonymous”). The book uses the symbols of the Tarot not for divination, but as topics for essays about various aspects of Christianity. It’s probably not for everyone, but I don’t think anyone would accuse of Cardinal Balthasar of promoting evil … would they?

 

[TabulaRasa]

It the person wants to put tarot pictures up in his house,that is up to him.READ MY POST.If s/he considers themself to be a Christian who is truly seeking holiness then the pictures are probably inappropriate.
The physical cards are probably not a danger in themselves.They are inert matter.The ideas which the cards represent are a different matter.
It’s as if this person said.“Is it ok to wear a pentagram or an inverted cross?”
It’s like saying,“Is it ok to listen to maralyn manson?”

If its about Christian art I can see the relevance.The person left the word tarot out of the thread title.I am questioning the sincerity of the question.It is baited.This is the sort of thing that Satanists, Wiccans, Setians, etc,do for fun as a sort of subversive way of trying to undermine the Church.I’m not making this up!They enjoy this stuff.Its called “The lure of the forbidden.”

I apologize if I appeared insincere to you, but please don’t brush me off. If it pleases you, I can change the title, if someone tells me how.

It would be a lie to say I’m not slightly irked by such a strong accusation against my own character based off of a post. I understand that this probably stemmed from a charitable motive, but I don’t believe that gives you the right to make such strong implications of my character.

As to my motives for the question, I’ll admit that a bit of it stems from hesitancy towards the material. While I don’t see anything wrong with it personally, others have put forward strong opinions, and I would like to see justification for these.

None have truly shown the intrinsic nature of tarot.

If their origins are largely mundane (please correct that point if it’s incorrect), why would this be anymore unchristian than playing cards or other neutral mediums that could (and probably have been) used for occult purposes?

Were tarot decks occult prior to them being subverted for occult practices?

The comparison to a blood dipped pentagram seems a bit of a hyperbole. Whereas the symbolism of that is quite apparant (if I’m wrong, please correct me), the symbolism within a tarot deck seems to be neutral, if anything.

Once again, I understand your concern for other members of the forum. I apologize for what appeared to you to be an insincere question baiting at other members. At the same time, please don’t be so quick to judge others. I don’t believe charitable intentions are excuses to demean another.

If there’s anything about the topic itself that’s offensive, then please tell me what to change.

Thank you.