I have a question on my Protestant Refutation

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DaMooksta

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Ok…im really into apologetics and I kind of wanted 2 know if this statement is legit?..

I was speaking to a couple of Protestants and at one point I stated that…The thing that I really dont understand is that in order for them to claim to be Protestant and accept the belief of Sola Fide (faith alone) and Sola Scriptura (bible alone)…that would mean that you have to accept the thought that all Christians before the 16th century were mislead and accepted false teaching…

am i right in saying that?? because from wut i understand all the centuries b4 accepted the church authority…please correct me if im wrong!!
 
Yes- basically believing in sola scriptura means you dont/ shouldnt beleive in any doctrines which the CC set up through councils, traditions etc. For example, the trinity and the CANON OF THE BIBLE itself.
Kinda ironic, isnt it?
 
p.s. I dont know if you have/ or have seen the Beginning Apologetics books on the side that are by: Father Frank Chacon and Jim Burnham… but they are GREAT!!! You really should buy all of them (I dont have the one for Muslims or JW though)!
 
kristanl said:
p.s. I dont know if you have/ or have seen the Beginning Apologetics books on the side that are by: Father Frank Chacon and Jim Burnham… but they are GREAT!!! You really should buy all of them (I dont have the one for Muslims or JW though)!
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im asking a question and ur here selling me books …im guessin u make commission on these?? lol im jp
i know wut ur talkin about…i just moved down 2 Alabama by mother angelicas church from new york and im really growing in my faith…but they got those @ here gift shop…

but if ur really in2 apologetics i’ll give u a real good site…cuz im not really in2 books like that cuz i never really have the time so i just load my ipod up and listen 2 apologetics…

so if u havent heard of this site u should def check it out! its sooo good!!
biblechristiansociety.com/download
 
Thanks!
But I totally think that you should say what you want to say- and maybe even say- Is that what the Early Church Fathers believe? Seeing as you live in AL and I’m in GA , I know plenty of people in the “bible belt” who do not know what an Early Church Father is.

I’m also in this defending the Faith class. They always tell us to start with Authority. Once the people you are talking to get authority, you can move on to other things…
 
oo so u know exactly wut im going thru!!..these bible belt people are like crazy anti-catholics…im going 2 college out here and they like gang up on u w/ questions…and even tho i luv it cuz im pretty well grounded in my faith (not 2 boast or nuttin lol) and i luv debating… its nice 2 make them see y i believe the things i do…but i just realized im always on the defensive…and i just started listening 2 those audios and they said 2 answer a question w/ a question ( Like Jesus ) and i never even thought of that…its genius! but newayz long story short whoever that guy is on that site is incredible!

and yea i want 2 say that refutation about the 16th century thingy cuz i think its true but i dont wanna say nething thats not accurate ya know?? then that would just make me look even worst than i looked b4 2 them…being catholic n all…
 
umm can i please get some more (name removed by moderator)ut??? pleeeaasseee…i want this confirmed people…this can really help me out…
 
Your arguement relies on a made up image of history. Why don’t you check out a reference that speaks directly to your question and see? Martin Chemnitz’s “Examination of the Council of Trent” and see what the church Fathers had to say about it?
 
DaMooksta said:
im asking a question and ur here selling me books …im guessin u make commission on these?? lol im jp
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The language of these forums is English

Nobody is selling you books, members of the forum do not get a cut of anything sold on this website.

We took you at your word that your question was sincere, that you were asking for more information, and you were referred to further information to answer your question. Take it or leave it.
 
DaMooksta said:
Ok…im really into apologetics and I kind of wanted 2 know if this statement is legit?..

I was speaking to a couple of Protestants and at one point I stated that…The thing that I really dont understand is that in order for them to claim to be Protestant and accept the belief of Sola Fide (faith alone) and Sola Scriptura (bible alone)…that would mean that you have to accept the thought that all Christians before the 16th century were mislead and accepted false teaching…

am i right in saying that?? because from wut i understand all the centuries b4 accepted the church authority…please correct me if im wrong!!
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The response you will get is that Bible-only Christians always existed. There are contextless “apologetics” cut-&-pastes that they use to “show” that the ECFs taught Scripture alone. Of course, anyone who knows beyond a cursory examination of ECFs, that the early Church believed in the authority of the Church. You can and should readily agree with them when they say Scripture is authoritative. After all the Church’s Magisterium serves the Bible, not the other way around (see Dei Verbum end of paragraph 10). However, the early Church also embraced Tradition and the authority of the bishops, as well as the sacraments, which have largely been rejected by 21st century Evangelicalism.
 
Yo! DaMooksta! Go get 'em!

Yes, you are correct. Martin Luther made up two brand new doctrines out of thin air, neither of which can be supported by the Bible.

Keep in mind that Jesus never told anyone to write a book or anything. He did, however, command the Apostles to go forth and preach everything that He taught them (Matt. 28:20). But, the Bible says that not everything Jesus said or did is IN the Bible. (John 21:25). In fact, if you were to compile every quote of Jesus in the New Testament, it would only be 15-20 pages long and could be easily read aloud in less than two hours! So, if they believe that Jesus only spoke for less than two hours in His whole three year ministry, then He must’ve been a man of very few words! We don’t believe that, though. Looking at 2 Thes 2:15, we see St. Paul telling us that God’s Word is contained in BOTH oral and written form. Therefore, we can conclude that the Bible is not the entire Word of God, but a subset of it. The rest is contained in oral tradition, a.k.a., Holy Tradition.

From a practical stantpoint, if Jesus HAD created a Bible-reading, self-interpreting Church, there would’ve been a problem. The vast majority of the world’s population could neither read nor write. They were illiterate! This was so for about the first 18 or so centuries! Plus, it was VERY expensive to create a Bible until the printing press was created in the 1400’s. The pages were made of velum, which was cow or sheep stomachs, so it literally took a whole herd of cows or sheep to make one Bible, not to mention the years it took for a monk to copy it down by hand! (Interesting note: The pictures in the ancient Bibles were what they did when they messed up. LOL)

You might find the three-part video, “Origin of the Bible” at my website interesting: alabamacatholicresources.com/Bible.html

God bless! And don’t forget to live a good sacramental life to go along with your apologetics! 🙂
 
DaMooksta said:
im asking a question and ur here selling me books …im guessin u make commission on these?? lol im jp
i know wut ur talkin about…i just moved down 2 Alabama by mother angelicas church from new york and im really growing in my faith…but they got those @ here gift shop…

but if ur really in2 apologetics i’ll give u a real good site…cuz im not really in2 books like that cuz i never really have the time so i just load my ipod up and listen 2 apologetics…

so if u havent heard of this site u should def check it out! its sooo good!!
biblechristiansociety.com/download
Click to expand...
Ouch texting type…that hurt my brain. I think I’m texting illiterate.

Chuck
 
puzzleannie said:
The language of these forums is English

Nobody is selling you books, members of the forum do not get a cut of anything sold on this website.

We took you at your word that your question was sincere, that you were asking for more information, and you were referred to further information to answer your question. Take it or leave it.
Click to expand...
i didnt know u were a moderator for grammatical issues…but now i know…and also how are u gonna get so sensitive over this when the person i directed it to took it as a joke…sad world…
 
Scoobyshme said:
Yo! DaMooksta! Go get 'em!

Yes, you are correct. Martin Luther made up two brand new doctrines out of thin air, neither of which can be supported by the Bible.

Keep in mind that Jesus never told anyone to write a book or anything. He did, however, command the Apostles to go forth and preach everything that He taught them (Matt. 28:20). But, the Bible says that not everything Jesus said or did is IN the Bible. (John 21:25). In fact, if you were to compile every quote of Jesus in the New Testament, it would only be 15-20 pages long and could be easily read aloud in less than two hours! So, if they believe that Jesus only spoke for less than two hours in His whole three year ministry, then He must’ve been a man of very few words! We don’t believe that, though. Looking at 2 Thes 2:15, we see St. Paul telling us that God’s Word is contained in BOTH oral and written form. Therefore, we can conclude that the Bible is not the entire Word of God, but a subset of it. The rest is contained in oral tradition, a.k.a., Holy Tradition.

From a practical stantpoint, if Jesus HAD created a Bible-reading, self-interpreting Church, there would’ve been a problem. The vast majority of the world’s population could neither read nor write. They were illiterate! This was so for about the first 18 or so centuries! Plus, it was VERY expensive to create a Bible until the printing press was created in the 1400’s. The pages were made of velum, which was cow or sheep stomachs, so it literally took a whole herd of cows or sheep to make one Bible, not to mention the years it took for a monk to copy it down by hand! (Interesting note: The pictures in the ancient Bibles were what they did when they messed up. LOL)

You might find the three-part video, “Origin of the Bible” at my website interesting: alabamacatholicresources.com/Bible.html

God bless! And don’t forget to live a good sacramental life to go along with your apologetics! 🙂
Click to expand...
thanx alot scooby!! and yea im working on my repentance as much if not more than my apologetics so …go me!! lol
 
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