I have a question...

[TheBlackGhost]

You don’t believe in some sort of operation that would affect the sexual capabilities of us humans (vasectomy for example).

So then how do you feel about getting your pets spayed/neutered?

 

[Pug]

Sure, neuter your pets.

But explain to me why if you wish to buy a pet from the pound, that you have to explain and detail why your fish, birds, pet rock, etc. are not neutered to get the dog! I’m surprised they didn’t demand to know if my spouse were neutered! (that last comment proves I’m still on topic)

 

[TheBlackGhost]

Well I didn’t understand that second paragraph, but my point is if you disagree with humans getting it, do you disagree with animals? Same thing in my opinion.

 

[Pug]

I do disagree with humans getting sterilized, but I do not disagree with animals getting sterilized. Sorry, I tend to get confusing! My typical ramblings about nothing…I hope that is more clear.

I guess I see animals as having sex in a different light from humans having sex. Animals don’t get married, and we do. Something is different there.

 

[jediliz]

Because its a mostly selfish decision,almost always done to avoid having more children. Or to avoid having children at all.

 

[mlchance]

TheBlackGhost:

Well I didn’t understand that second paragraph, but my point is if you disagree with humans getting it, do you disagree with animals? Same thing in my opinion.

And your opinion is wrong.

Humans are qualitatively different than all other animals. Only humans are subject to moral law.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[mercygate]

TheBlackGhost:

Well I didn’t understand that second paragraph, but my point is if you disagree with humans getting it, do you disagree with animals? Same thing in my opinion.

Christians believe that humans have an immortal soul and a divine dignity which animals do not have. Christians believe that animals have been given to us for food, for assistance, and for comfort. We are custodians of animals, and stewards over them. Animals are not created with rational intelligence, free will or an immortal soul. Though we respect animals and care for them, there is a huge difference in the Christian mind between an animal and a human being made in the image of God.

 

[Tristan_daCunha]

Yeah… what Mercygate said!

Also animals engage in sex whenever the opportunity is given to them. Humans can be expected to use reason to determine whether sex is appropriate or not.

 

[TheBlackGhost]

mlchance:

And your opinion is wrong.

Humans are qualitatively different than all other animals. Only humans are subject to moral law.

– Mark L. Chance.

Hahaha, my **opinion ** is wrong? I’m sorry you did not pass english 1, but here is the definition of opinion:

Opinion
n.
-A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

“but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof”. That means my opinion is not wrong. But thank you for feeling the need to get personal like that. It makes you sound much smarter. Good Day.

-TBG

 

[BlindSheep]

TheBlackGhost:

Well I didn’t understand that second paragraph, but my point is if you disagree with humans getting it, do you disagree with animals? Same thing in my opinion.

I also disagree with humans being eaten.

 

[BlindSheep]

TheBlackGhost:

Hahaha, my **opinion **is wrong? I’m sorry you did not pass english 1, but here is the definition of opinion:

Opinion
n.
-A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

“but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof”. That means my opinion is not wrong. But thank you for feeling the need to get personal like that. It makes you sound much smarter. Good Day.

-TBG

TBG, you sound a trifle defensive. I’m sure no one here intends to personally attack you. When you ask people a question about their beliefs, please be open to listening to their answers. Sometimes people point out what they consider a logical inconsistancy in the guise of a question; they do not want an answer, but only wish to prove the other guy wrong. I’m sure you wouldn’t do that, but people can sometimes misinterpret an honest question when it involves such an unpopular teaching as the Catholic Church’s on birth control. You understand, I’m sure.

 

[TheBlackGhost]

BlindSheep:

TBG, you sound a trifle defensive. I’m sure no one here intends to personally attack you. When you ask people a question about their beliefs, please be open to listening to their answers. Sometimes people point out what they consider a logical inconsistancy in the guise of a question; they do not want an answer, but only wish to prove the other guy wrong. I’m sure you wouldn’t do that, but people can sometimes misinterpret an honest question when it involves such an unpopular teaching as the Catholic Church’s on birth control. You understand, I’m sure.

I understand your point and I am thankful you responded in a rather mature manner. I do take offense when someone basically says what I think and believe in is wrong however, and that’s why I take it as a personal attack.

And also thanks for finaly using a sn nickname I’ve been trying to spread for myself, I think you’re the first person to actually call me TBG, no one uses that one as much as I wish, I think it sounds cool.

 

[PAX777]

This May help;

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=83688&highlight=animals

Flopfoot:

LOL about the neutering. No, its not the same as human contraception. Animals can’t even sin.

Here’s what the CCC says about respect for animals

**2415 **The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity.195 Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man’s dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation.196

**2416 ***Animals *are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory.197 Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals.

**2417 **God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image.198 Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.

2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

— on a side note about the soul of Man & Animals…
newadvent.org/summa/107506.htm
Solomon reasons thus in the person of the foolish, as expressed in the words of Wisdom 2. Therefore the saying that man and animals have a like beginning in generation is true of the body; for all animals alike are made of earth. But it is not true of the soul. For the souls of brutes are produced by some power of the body; whereas the human soul is produced by God. To signify this it is written as to other animals: “Let the earth bring forth the living soul” (Genesis 1:24): while of man it is written (Genesis 2:7) that “He breathed into his face the breath of life.” And so in the last chapter of Ecclesiastes (12:7) it is concluded: “(Before) the dust return into its earth from whence it was; and the spirit return to God Who gave it.” Again the process of life is alike as to the body, concerning which it is written (Ecclesiastes 3:19): “All things breathe alike,” and (Wisdom 2:2), “The breath in our nostrils is smoke.” But the process is not alike of the soul; for man is intelligent, whereas animals are not. Hence it is false to say: “Man has nothing more than beasts.” Thus death comes to both alike as to the body, by not as to the soul.

 

[mlchance]

TheBlackGhost:

Hahaha, my **opinion **is wrong? I’m sorry you did not pass english 1…

How amusing. I’m being lectured in English by someone who hasn’t even finished high school. I passed “english 1” (which included the rules of capitalization for proper nouns and adjectives) before you were born. When I started teaching English, you were barely out of training pants.

If you’d paid attention in your English classes, you’d know that an opinion that contradicts positive knowledge or proof is, indeed, wrong.

Human beings are qualitatively different than other animals. Only human beings are subject to moral law. Sterilization is contrary to moral law. Therefore, your opinion that sterilizing a human being is the same as sterilizing other animals is wrong.

Now that you know better, you can discard your erroneous opinion in favor of a fact.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[TheBlackGhost]

mlchance:

How amusing. I’m being lectured in English by someone who hasn’t even finished high school. I passed “english 1” (which included the rules of capitalization for proper nouns and adjectives) before you were born. When I started teaching English, you were barely out of training pants.

I’m hurt.

If you’d paid attention in your English classes, you’d know that an opinion that contradicts positive knowledge or proof is, indeed, wrong.

Human beings are qualitatively different than other animals. Only human beings are subject to moral law. Sterilization is contrary to moral law. Therefore, your opinion that sterilizing a human being is the same as sterilizing other animals is wrong.

Now that you know better, you can discard your erroneous opinion in favor of a fact.

– Mark L. Chance.

And even if this were said in an official document (which I question), who’s to say fact hasn’t been wrong before? We as a civilization have improved by correcting that which we thought was right (The whole white supremecy thing ring any bells?). Being more intelligent and dominating other sentient life just makes us tyrantial leaders, not better then the other animals. We ourselves are animals, not some sort of better form of existence. That is why I believe humans and animals are one in the same.

 

[mercygate]

TheBlackGhost:

We ourselves are animals, not some sort of better form of existence. That is why I believe humans and animals are one in the same.

We are animals, but with critical differences which distinguish us from other animals. In the Judaeo-Christian view, those differences are of divine origin and a sacred gift. The superiority of man over other beasts places upon his shoulders a burden of stewardship; it does not entitle him to wanton predation.

If you do not see the difference between man and animals, I challenge you to call a chimpanzee the next time you want your house painted and see what happens.

 

[mlchance]

TheBlackGhost:

And even if this were said in an official document (which I question),

The “official documents” have been referenced above.

TheBlackGhost:

who’s to say fact hasn’t been wrong before?

Facts aren’t ever wrong. That’s why they’re called facts.

TheBlackGhost:

We as a civilization have improved by correcting that which we thought was right (The whole white supremecy thing ring any bells?).

Non sequitur. White supremacy was never a fact, and it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

TheBlackGhost:

Being more intelligent and dominating other sentient life just makes us tyrantial leaders, not better then the other animals.

Strawman. No one has suggested humans are better than other animals because we’re capable of tyranny.

Instead, what has been repeated noted, in different words, is that humans are qualitatively different from other animals because only humans are subject to moral law.

TheBlackGhost:

We ourselves are animals, not some sort of better form of existence. That is why I believe humans and animals are one in the same.

And you’ve not offered a single, coherent argument to justify this position.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[MommaKat]

TheBlackGhost:

I understand your point and I am thankful you responded in a rather mature manner. I do take offense when someone basically says what I think and believe in is wrong however, and that’s why I take it as a personal attack.

And also thanks for finaly using a sn nickname I’ve been trying to spread for myself, I think you’re the first person to actually call me TBG, no one uses that one as much as I wish, I think it sounds cool.

My dear young lady you are going to have a very hard life if you continue to take corretion personally. You are going to be correct for the rest of your life and it will not be a gentle as what you have recieved here. I suggest that you try to not use your emotions when debating people. Fortunately if you are bless you will have a number of years to grow out of your larger that life knowledge of everything.

 

[TheBlackGhost]

mlchance:

The “official documents” have been referenced above.

If by those “official documents” you are referencing the bible (I’m guessing at this becasue you just said “referenced above”) Then I do not take the bible as an official document stating the absolute truth. I’m talking about some sort of government issued or otherwise scientifically issued doctrine.

Facts aren’t ever wrong. That’s why they’re called facts.

The Earth being flat was considered a fact about 600 or so years ago, was that right?

Non sequitur. White supremacy was never a fact, and it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

You may be right about white supremacy not being a fact (Although the belief of W.A.S.P.'s being supreme was at the least an extremely strong felt belief), so I won’t argue you here.

Strawman. No one has suggested humans are better than other animals because we’re capable of tyranny.

Instead, what has been repeated noted, in different words, is that humans are qualitatively different from other animals because only humans are subject to moral law.

I’m not sure my point on this was made well. What I am meaning to say, is that while humans and animals are quite obviously different, I value an animal life the same as a human life. I’m not sure if my point of view on this was not mentioned or I said it in the wrong words.

And you’ve not offered a single, coherent argument to justify this position.

– Mark L. Chance.

Thank You.

-TBG

 

[TheBlackGhost]

MommaKat:

My dear young lady you are going to have a very hard life if you continue to take corretion personally. You are going to be correct for the rest of your life and it will not be a gentle as what you have recieved here. I suggest that you try to not use your emotions when debating people. Fortunately if you are bless you will have a number of years to grow out of your larger that life knowledge of everything.

I do not take correction personally, but the way he said it made me feel as if it were a personal attack, I may be wrong by my own interpretation, but that doesn’t really matter now. Leaving my emotions out of a debate would probably be helpful, but sometimes my emotions get the better of me. Also, I believe I posses the Y chromosome.