I have a safety/legal concern regarding my husband's choices

[styrgwillidar]

…

Saturday, he arrived home at 2:45. The party started at 10. So, in four and a half hours, he consumed a six pack of beer… And he was leaning and stumbling and breathing heavily. All signs of extreme drunkenness in my experience, or so I thought.

…

Try and keep away from the discussion of I only had X drinks over X hours so I wasn’t legally drunk.

In the Navy, they have safety stand-downs a couple of times a year in each command. Drinking and driving is always a covered topic. One of my biggest heart-burns with it was there was always a discussion of burn-rate of alcohol. How many drinks it would take to get a person of typical weight to the legal limit. How many drinks they could be expected to burn off per hour to get back down below the legal limit. However, the legal limit is the point at which you are presumed to be DUI. You can certainly be charged and convicted at lower blood alcohol levels if it appears to the officer your driving was impaired.

The issue here really is life and death and should stay focused on that. Regardless of BAC, an honorable person will feel horrible if involved in an accident where someone was hurt or killed. Regardless of the legal limit, any BAC is going to be considered as some indication of impairment. Combining even moderate alcohol consumption with fatigue (which can be just as dangerous by itself as DUI) is extremely dangerous.

My points is that in discussions with your husband, it shouldn’t be centered just on amount of alcohol but the safety issues, as well as hard working folks up all night driving home as a factor complicating the matter. Again, cab-rides are cheaper than ambulances and hearses.

ETA: But on the plus side, DUIs are cheaper than a bad accident and a funeral if the drunk is caught before they hit something.

 

[MJJean]

Still thinking about this… Have you thought to arrange for a consult with a lawyer to explain to your husband directly and in no uncertain terms what would happen if he was driving drunk and got pulled over, got into an accident, and/or maimed or killed someone?

 

[ellzeena]

If I were you, I would call the police and give them a heads-up about what’s going on at the party house. The cops will gladly take it from there.

Please stop these “men” before they kill someone. I would not take it well if they ever hurt or kill anyone I love.

I agree with this poster. This isn’t casual drinking, it’s ritualistic drunkenness, sounds like a form of addiction. You might also want to look for an AlAnon group, other people whose loved ones have drinking problems. Cat is correct: he can easily kill some innocent (or himself); he has exposed your older children to a totally unacceptable circumstance in their own home; he must realize that one should not drive after consuming ANY alcohol (New York State is about to pass legislation for .08 which is the equivalent of ONE beer). His behavior is immature, selfish, dangerous and disrespectful of his position as father, head of household, husband. If the cops know he’s out there, and when, they WILL stop him. He WILL get a DUI and have to do community service. He does not have to know you reported him (the ethics of that: talk to a priest). You may be saving a life.

 

[mommamaree]

No, you are NOT over-reacting. Far from it.

In fact, I’m getting angrier by the minute at your wishy-washiness. Like I said, if one of these boys hurts or kills one of MY daughters…well, let’s just make sure that never happens, OK?

I realize that the cops cannot stop men from abusing alcohol in a private house. But they can be on the lookout, and watch these men as they leave that house and drive…

,drive?? Oh, my God, this makes me SICK that people, especially Christians, in the United States think that driving after drinking is acceptable behavior! OMG OMG OMG!!! This scares me to death! To think that one of my beautiful daughters, or my awesome son-in-law, or my dear husband. could have their life ended by a beer-guzzling monster. OMG.

Please, please, I beg you to have mercy on the rest of us and stop them! If you don’t have the nerve to call the cops, then tell one of your strong-minded female friends to do it.

Or call Mothers Against Drunk Driving and ask them to go to the house and deal with these idiots.

I suppose I should thank you, but I must say that you were very unkind to me. I have been doing my best to address this behavior with my husband. I am not the one making these choices, and I have told him how much I disagree, how illegal and dangerous this is. I have done everything I could, short of ultimatums and calling the police. I know after this weekend’s episode, that I must be more aggressive. But for you to say that I am wishywashy or imply that I am weak-minded, that is just rude, not to mention untrue. How is anything that I am intending to do tonight deserving of such a pronouncement?
I have never once, not one single time, kept silent while I watch my husband choose to get drunk and drive.
I appreciate the reality check, but I certainly do not appreciate your slandering my character.

 

[rinnie]

Hello everyone at CAF,
I have a concern about some choices that my husband and his Catholic friends are making. They have a semi-regular guys night, maybe once or twice a month. They typically meet up at one of their houses, or rarely at a sports pub, and play cards and have snacks. Nothing wrong there, but they also drink large amounts, and then drive home at about 3 to 5 am. Now, maybe I am over-reacting. They get together starting at about 9 or 10 pm. Each of them typically consumes a minimum of the equivalent of a six-pack of beer, but sometimes they drink liquor. Two months ago, they met at our house, while I was on a weekend trip and my husband was keeping our older children. One of the friends drank so much whiskey that he was “screaming at the toilet” or passed out on the floor for most of the night. In the hall bathroom, where any one of my three children who were home could have found him (he is godfather to some of my kids). But he was obviously not fit to drive home until dawn, and he was vomiting everywhere.
My husband doesn’t usually get that messed up, but he does come home stumbling. I have asked him repeatedly not to drink so much, and if he does drink too much, wait until dawn and soberness returns. He seems to think that he is fine, when I can tell when he arrives home that he is not able to walk a straight line.
I am very concerned. I do not know what to think or what to do. These men are all CATHOLIC. They should know better than to drink large amounts of alcohol, get plastered, and then DRIVE themselves home. I used to be upset about my husband staying out until dawn, which was a completely new thing for me when they started getting together a few years ago. But I quickly realized that I preferred him to be gone all night rather than driving home drunk. Ideally, I wish he wouldn’t drink so much, either, but I am concerned about someone getting hurt, or arrested, or dead. What do I do, as his wife, to get through to him, when he totally disagrees about an appropriate amount of alcohol to drink and then drive?

I would tell him its not me its the law. Lose your license and how do we live.

By the way not sure but was told your first offense is about ten thousand.

Either make it a couple times a year, let them save the money rent a camp or something. Or change things.

Better yet see if you know someone who can give them the test. See who passes and fails. Maybe that iwll open their eyes.

 

[shainski]

I would concentrate on what really bothers you. It’s the driving home while impaired.

I would tell him that you are comfortable with him having these mens’ nights on a monthly basis, but that he needs to find a way to not drive.

1. He could stay overnight
2. He could arrange that one of them would be a designated driver
3. One of the wives could offer to drive home anyone who drinks (but with kids in the picture, that option might be difficult)
4. He could call a cab

I think you could get the other wives to agree to these terms (even the one who likes to drink heavily as well).

You would not be taking away what he really enjoys. While he is sober, he should be able to realize the risk he is putting himself, his family, and other people in. Even if he doesn’t hurt anyone else, just having the DUI on his record - the cost, the extra insurance, and the mark on his record should be alarming. But even worse - how would he think of himself if he were the cause of an accident that harmed someone else?

I think that all the men could be made to agree to this - give up their keys at the beginning of the evening before their first drink.

May I ask how old he and his buddies are?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I agree with this poster. This isn’t casual drinking, it’s ritualistic drunkenness, sounds like a form of addiction. You might also want to look for an AlAnon group, other people whose loved ones have drinking problems. Cat is correct: he can easily kill some innocent (or himself); he has exposed your older children to a totally unacceptable circumstance in their own home; he must realize that one should not drive after consuming ANY alcohol (New York State is about to pass legislation for .08 which is the equivalent of ONE beer). His behavior is immature, selfish, dangerous and disrespectful of his position as father, head of household, husband. If the cops know he’s out there, and when, they WILL stop him. He WILL get a DUI and have to do community service. He does not have to know you reported him (the ethics of that: talk to a priest). You may be saving a life.

I thought all states were at .08? Regardless .08 is far more than one beer, especially for a man. It’s about 4 drinks for a 180 lbs man and 2 for a 140 lbs woman. That’s why I think that if he’s that drunk he’s lying about only having a six pack. A six pack between 10 pm and 2:30 in the morning should not be a problem, unless he nursed one beer for 3 hours and then guzzled the rest.

abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/what-does-a-08-blood-alcohol-level-really-mean

 

[7armyrugrats]

My older brother drank a six pack the night of our younger brother’s bachelor party. He was the least drunk of the group so he was picked to drive. They were out for 6 hours so supposedly he shouldn’t have been over the limit (he drank about one drink an hour. Long story short, he spent six years in prison for murder–he wrecked the car into a tree on the way home and killed his best friend who was like a second father to him. He will be on probation for a while still. Luckily only one vehicle was involved. Unfortunately a man was killed and the rest of the guys were injured.

I don’t care how much alcohol someone has in them. Even one drink it too much in my opinion, especially at night when it’s already more likely for an accident to occur due to visibility issues and general tiredness. The fact that they were drinking around little kids is even worse. I realize tge kids weren’t in the vehicle, but what if an emergency happens? Who would drive the kids to the dr if they get hurt or sick? I can tell you that as a child the scariest experiences for me were being around drunk people. My husband knows better than ever allowing that in my house. I don’t play that game at all.

 

[scoobydoo6v92]

Hello everyone at CAF,
I have a concern about some choices that my husband and his Catholic friends are making. They have a semi-regular guys night, maybe once or twice a month. They typically meet up at one of their houses, or rarely at a sports pub, and play cards and have snacks. Nothing wrong there, but they also drink large amounts, and then drive home at about 3 to 5 am. Now, maybe I am over-reacting. They get together starting at about 9 or 10 pm. Each of them typically consumes a minimum of the equivalent of a six-pack of beer, but sometimes they drink liquor. Two months ago, they met at our house, while I was on a weekend trip and my husband was keeping our older children. One of the friends drank so much whiskey that he was “screaming at the toilet” or passed out on the floor for most of the night. In the hall bathroom, where any one of my three children who were home could have found him (he is godfather to some of my kids). But he was obviously not fit to drive home until dawn, and he was vomiting everywhere.
My husband doesn’t usually get that messed up, but he does come home stumbling. I have asked him repeatedly not to drink so much, and if he does drink too much, wait until dawn and soberness returns. He seems to think that he is fine, when I can tell when he arrives home that he is not able to walk a straight line.
I am very concerned. I do not know what to think or what to do. These men are all CATHOLIC. They should know better than to drink large amounts of alcohol, get plastered, and then DRIVE themselves home. I used to be upset about my husband staying out until dawn, which was a completely new thing for me when they started getting together a few years ago. But I quickly realized that I preferred him to be gone all night rather than driving home drunk. Ideally, I wish he wouldn’t drink so much, either, but I am concerned about someone getting hurt, or arrested, or dead. What do I do, as his wife, to get through to him, when he totally disagrees about an appropriate amount of alcohol to drink and then drive?

You cannot regulate his drinking or who he hangs out with The best thing that can happen is he gets a DWI and if he does let him stay in jail DO NOT BAIL HIM OUT!!! or you enable him to continue. Let him lay in his vomit. If he passes out in the yard let him stay there till dawn. that is the best advice I can give. A DWI cures a lot of recreational or amateur drinkers.

 

[Lancer]

A very serious situation…you are not overreacting!

For safety…his own and other unsuspecting citizens on the streets/roads…you might graciously but emphatically tell him…that you will drop him off…and when he calls…you will pick him up…the hour is not important to you…but his safety and the safety of others is paramount to you.

I know that it would be a really extraordinary sacrifice to go get him at 3-5 AM…but your sacrifice for his safety and the well being of the Head of the Family…your husband and father of your children…may wake him up to the life threatening–life altering consequences of his actions…and the really harsh legal ramifications/penalties…also, your personal sacrifices to preclude this type of calamity/consequences may entice him to “wake-up”…when he sees the depth of your sacrifice,just so he can continue his “guy-thing”…without ever badgering/preaching.

The best three words to prick his conscience on this issue…whenever he seems to be in an apologetic/regretful mood…or even somewhat remorseful mood over his actions…are:…“I forgive you”…without any other words or clarifications or qualifiers…just…“I forgive you”…and then quickly move on to something else…don’t linger on the subject. If you give most guys a chance to be a “hero” in their mind…to make a “heroic sacrifice” in their mind (i.e., don’t drink too much and put himself and his wife and family and all his/their futures in jeopardy)…they will respond. It’s a lot easier for a guy to change…to do the right thing…when he can view himself as doing something “heroic” vice…just not doing something “stupid”!

Also, if “hero vs stupid” aspect doesn’t work…the next best change agent is…’'fear!". Get the local court case records for those convicted of DUI and DWI violations/crimes…and especially any cases where an accident occurred, especially with bodily harm…serious injuries to innocent victims…and let him see the actual resulting consequences/penalties/sentences. If he ever gets a DWI or has an accident while DUI…and loses his driving privileges for any period of time…your sacrifices will be monumental…compared to taking him to his meeting with the guys and picking him up in the wee hours of the night/morning…you will likely have to be his chauffeur.

Maybe they – his drinking buddies – would consider a “designated driver (s)”…who would not consume alcohol…and get the other guys home safely.

Guy-to-guy…Catholic brother-to-brother…if I were in his sphere of friends/associates…I would be…lets say blunt…to a fault. Just as a citizen…there is no reason for innocents to be put into jeopardy for the sake of his/guys “pleasure”…especially when they can have their “pleasure” an still not put anyone in jeopardy…including himself…by taking reasonable precautions.

Not sure if this is helpful…I am sorry for the burden you are carrying…and my comments surely don’t lessen your worries…I regret that fact…but if you take action now…you will not have to live with enduring and harsh regrets later on. I pray for you and your husband and family…graces of Holy Spirit for wisdom, courage and fortitude.

Pax Christi

 

[mommamaree]

My older brother drank a six pack the night of our younger brother’s bachelor party. He was the least drunk of the group so he was picked to drive. They were out for 6 hours so supposedly he shouldn’t have been over the limit (he drank about one drink an hour. Long story short, he spent six years in prison for murder–he wrecked the car into a tree on the way home and killed his best friend who was like a second father to him. He will be on probation for a while still. Luckily only one vehicle was involved. Unfortunately a man was killed and the rest of the guys were injured.

I don’t care how much alcohol someone has in them. Even one drink it too much in my opinion, especially at night when it’s already more likely for an accident to occur due to visibility issues and general tiredness. The fact that they were drinking around little kids is even worse. I realize tge kids weren’t in the vehicle, but what if an emergency happens? Who would drive the kids to the dr if they get hurt or sick? I can tell you that as a child the scariest experiences for me were being around drunk people. My husband knows better than ever allowing that in my house. I don’t play that game at all.

Thank you for sharing your brother’s story. I am so sorry for what happened. This is exactly the sort of scenario I fear will happen.

 

[styrgwillidar]

You cannot regulate his drinking or who he hangs out with The best thing that can happen is he gets a DWI and if he does let him stay in jail DO NOT BAIL HIM OUT!!! or you enable him to continue. Let him lay in his vomit. If he passes out in the yard let him stay there till dawn. that is the best advice I can give. A DWI cures a lot of recreational or amateur drinkers.

The problem with this is the assumption he will be caught before someone is hurt or killed. You’re assuming he’ll get a DUI vice a trip to the morgue.

The reason there are DUI laws is because people get injured and killed. Their primary goal is to discourage the behavior in the first place. Discourage others by making examples of those who violate the law.

The goal should be to not drink and drive in the first place. Especially late at night combined with fatigue. That is something he simply needs to acknowledge and work up a solution to prevent with his wife. Whether it’s cab rides, designated driver, sleep over, walk, public transportation, wife/older child pick up— whatever.

Sorry, waiting for a DUI to solve the problem is playing Russian roulette. The hammer is likely to fall on the live cartridge vice the empty chamber.

 

[mommamaree]

Okay, now I know that I was not over-reacting. Thank you everyone.

So, I think that I will address it like this. If he promises zero alcohol, I will agree to him going to late-night gatherings. If he cannot make that promise, or if he breaks that promise even once, then I will no longer agree to him going. If he insists on going, I will demand his keys, and I will chauffeur him. Yes, that will mean loading our four little children up in the car at 4am, but I will do it. If he still takes his keys and leaves, I will inform him that I intend to call the police and inform them of the intention of the guys to drive drunk, and that they have a history of driving drunk before. This past time, I offered the option of him sleeping over until dawn and sober, but he decided not to exercise that option, so I will not offer it again.
I also have the option of informing his parents, other friends, the priest, and seeking help with an intervention for this behavior. I will let him know that I intend to speak to all of those people if he persists in this behavior.
I am really quite astonished at this behavior, honestly. I have been expressing my concerns and have been asking each and every time to be careful and not drive drunk, and he ignores my requests. Why in the world would an otherwise good and steady man do such things?

Oh, and someone asked his age. He and I are turning 35 very soon, and we have been married for almost 16 years and we have four children. Time for him to grow up, I’d say.

 

[mommamaree]

Also, there is no public transportation or cab service in our town. So I will have to chauffeur if he persists. And if he gets caught and loses his license, I would have to drive him an hour round-trip to work each morning and drive another hour round-trip to pick him up. And yes, we would lose our house and belongings in order to pay for legal fees or settlements if he gets sued or fined.

 

[styrgwillidar]

I would work with him on this, and let him provide the solution. That is, here’s the problem, what do you propose to do to solve it?

I don’t know him or his ego. But as someone else said, guys like to be problem solvers vice being ordered around. Especially by his partner who is supposed to respect him and have his back. There’s a difference between saying- honey, here’s the issue I’m worried about, I trust and respect you but you never know what’s going to happen. (I have a nephew who was hit by another driver. Completely the other drivers fault, no question. Cops clearly stated it. Problem? My nephew had one beer, an alcohol level that barely registered and he was underage (20 yrs and 6 months)-- but it was there. So, as a result he lost his license for a while.) Its not just the alcohol but being up all night and driving home tired. What do you think we can do? Try as best you can to make it a mutual decision vice getting his back up being accusatory or “laying down the law” or “acting like you’re his mother” and provoking resistance vice cooperation. You know him best. Just my .02

 

[MJJean]

Thank you for sharing your brother’s story. I am so sorry for what happened. This is exactly the sort of scenario I fear will happen.

As any reasonable person would fear. I know no wife wants to be a nag or a killjoy, but this is extremely serious. It’s not nagging. It’s not being a killjoy. It’s being a responsible adult. You need to not only be “more aggressive”, but extremely aggressive on this issue. This kind of thing is one of the things that I truly believe is so important it is ok to actually say the word divorce and mean it! This is the home and financial security of the family, the protection of assets. It is, most importantly, the very lives of your husband and anyone else on the road with him. You have no say in what his friends do, but you do have a say in what your husband does.

 

[7armyrugrats]

Thank you for sharing your brother’s story. I am so sorry for what happened. This is exactly the sort of scenario I fear will happen.

Well, it’s what I pray never happens to you or anyone else. My younger brother, who was injured in the accident but recovered, ended up dying due to alcoholism later on anyway. He drank himself to death (died of internal bleeding from his pancreas) when he was only 33. He drank heavily, but not regularly. He would go for months without a drink and then binge drink. He was functional in all ways, just binge drinking a few weekends a year. the coroner was telling us he had never seen something like that happen, but it happened to him. I pray we are all overreacting about your husband, but please don’t take chances. You have young kids. My baby brother’s son just turned 5. I had to watch my SIL try to explain to the baby at age 2-1/2 why Jesus called his daddy home and no, daddy isn’t sleeping and he’s not going to wake up. You, your children and your husband deserve way better than that. I’ll pray for you all

 

[Michael57]

So I am not over-reacting? He has implied that I am just over-reacting.

Saturday, he arrived home at 2:45. The party started at 10. So, in four and a half hours, he consumed a six pack of beer. When he arrived he smelled overwhelmingly of beer, like it was oozing out of his pores, not just on his breath. And he was leaning and stumbling and breathing heavily. All signs of extreme drunkenness in my experience, or so I thought.

If you all tell me that I am not over-reacting, I plan to sit him down tonight and address this. If he won’t listen to reason, I will speak to the ladies and I will start attending Al-Anon meetings. I will also speak to our priest.

But I really needed a reality check, as well as an idea of the legal consequences we are likely to face, if he gets pulled over or into an accident.

You are not over-reacting. Your husband and his friends are engaging in binge-drinking and drunkenness, from what you’ve posted.

It’s a bad habit that has consequences.

From the CCC:

1852 There are a great many kinds of sins. Scripture provides several lists of them. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.”

Source linked HERE

Praying…

 

[marymary1975]

My husband is an attorney who sometimes ends up defending DUI cases. The very best you can hope for is a license suspension and thousands of dollars worth of fines and attorney fees. If there’s an accident, the expense goes up exponentially. Someone hurt or killed? You’re screwed. Needless to say, DH is the go-to guy when a designated driver is needed. Even when he is not serving as designated driver, he as a strict one beer limit. I am SO glad I don’t have the OP’s concern.

To the OP: Your husband is flirting with a disaster of monumental proportions every time he and his buddies behave like frat boys. Since this seems to be a regular thing, it’s just a matter of time. And as someone else mentioned, if one of these guys gets plastered at your house and kills someone on the way home…well I hope you have a very good lawyer on speed dial. And a large bank account.

Edited to add: In addition to fines and legal fees, if someone gets a DUI, they can expect a huge jump in their car insurance premiums. Get a second one? Good luck finding a company that will insure you at any price. Welcome to the state high risk pool.

I agree with every word in the above post. You are not over reacting, this i@ a very serious situation and he is endangering his life and the life of others. Legal consequences have been very well mentioned on the above post: DUI and at least in my state you can end up in jail for a DUI, if someone who is at your house drinking ends up in a car accident you are screwed. This is very serious. If I were in your position I would not allow him to drive to go to these meetings. If he wants to meet with his friends for beers, you drive him and when he is done you go and pick him up. Don’t allow them drinking in your house little less if your husband provided the alcohol and don’t allow him to drive. I think you really need to put your foot down with this and tell him you aren’t negotiating with this. This is the kind of situation of an accident waiting to happen and you must do something about it.

 

[MJJean]

I would work with him on this, and let him provide the solution. That is, here’s the problem, what do you propose to do to solve it?

I don’t know him or his ego. But as someone else said, guys like to be problem solvers vice being ordered around. Especially by his partner who is supposed to respect him and have his back. There’s a difference between saying- honey, here’s the issue I’m worried about, I trust and respect you but you never know what’s going to happen. (I have a nephew who was hit by another driver. Completely the other drivers fault, no question. Cops clearly stated it. Problem? My nephew had one beer, an alcohol level that barely registered and he was underage (20 yrs and 6 months)-- but it was there. So, as a result he lost his license for a while.) Its not just the alcohol but being up all night and driving home tired. What do you think we can do? Try as best you can to make it a mutual decision vice getting his back up being accusatory or “laying down the law” or “acting like you’re his mother” and provoking resistance vice cooperation. You know him best. Just my .02

Normally, I would agree. However, she has already spoken to him about this many times and has gotten no results. The time for her husband to say “Ok, since you are worried about this, I will do X to solve the problem.” has come and gone.