I have a very serious decision to make for my family and I need advice

[Liraco]

To be honest, I didn’t say anything to him about the liturgical issues. I didn’t want it to be a personal problem between the two of them.

Don’t be afraid to ask. If you’re doing it with the intention of doing right and humility (accepting you might be wrong on certain things) then there’s no reason to be afraid. Remember that some priests are poorly instructed and don’t really see what they’re doing as wrong. Don’t mention it as abuses but as a concern of what you think is wrong (especially about the Eucharist and the extraordinary ministers).

As a note, from every Church I’ve to here (in Mexico) I don’t ever recall the priest “breathing on” as part of the consecration unless it’s something incredibly subtle which I don’t see when in larger Churches.

 

[Kenneth_Jones]

By the way, the page you linked may be correct, but don’t believe all you read on wikipedia. Thanks for the questions and concern, I really appreciate you all!

WHAT??? I read it on the Internet! It Must Be True:manvspc:

Ken

 

[Listener]

I think that it is better to stay. When I was growing up in the 1950’s, the Church had a rule that you had to attend the parish whose geographical boundaries surrounded your home. It was not acceptable to run to another parish if you didn’t like what was going on in yours.

I know that people who call themselves “traditional” want to go back to the way it was in the 1950’s. They want the Latin Mass, Communion on the tongue, etc., but they sure don’t follow the rule they had back then about attending Mass in their own home parish.

There are practical reasons for going to your home parish. For one thing, if the weather is terrible, it is so much easier to get to church. If something is going on in the evening, it is much easier to drive a couple of miles (or maybe even walk a couple of blocks) to your church rather than get in your car and drive 20 or 50 miles to another parish.

People should think of what they can give to the Church rather than what they can get out of it.

Children will learn that there are many different kinds of people in this world and that not all of them think the same way that their families think. This is valuable knowledge that they will certainly learn when they take a paying job for the first time.

This is just my opinion. People who go church shopping seem kind of immature to me.

 

[paperwight]

And as far as finishing chalices goes, you can only do that with the bishops permission as stated below. It says nothing about hosts. Thanks for all the thoughts and prayers!!!

"In those instances when there remains more consecrated wine than was necessary, if needs dictate, Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion may consume what remains of the Precious Blood from their cup of distribution with the permission of the diocesan bishop. .

Well, yes, but it doesn’t mean that permission has to be sought from the Bishop on each and every occasion. How would that work, especially on a Sunday, when he wouldn’t be available to come to the phone to be asked permission of , most likely, as he’d be saying Mass somewhere himself?

There must be some kind of blanket permission.

 

[Joannm]

To be honest, I didn’t say anything to him about the liturgical issues. I didn’t want it to be a personal problem between the two of them.

When the priest says “he gave it to his disciples” he shows the chalice and the Host respectively to the congregation. Then he says “take this all you and eat/drink it, this is My Body/Cup of My Blood”. When he says this, the Priest is supposed to breathe on the host/wine as part of the correct posture for consecration (that’s what I’ve always seen and heard anyway). By the way, the page you linked may be correct, but don’t believe all you read on wikipedia. Thanks for the questions and concern, I really appreciate you all!

There is nothing in the rubrics that say he must breath on the host and chalice. It says he should bend slightly (I am not directly quoting). The only priests I have actually seen breath over the host and chalice are very traditional priests.

 

[paperwight]

There is nothing in the rubrics that say he must breath on the host and chalice. It says he should bend slightly (I am not directly quoting). The only priests I have actually seen breath over the host and chalice are very traditional priests.

I can see that someone might think it had a better sign value if the priest breathed on the elements, recalling Our Lord breathing on the Disciples and saying receive the Holy Spirit.

But my understanding is that it is the words of consecration together with the intention, and the priest having the authority to confect, that results in the change.

Otherwise, what would happen if a priest was unable to breathe on the elements, through being unable to bend that low, for instance. Would no consecration occur? And during concelebrations when the clergy are gathered round the altar and too far away to breathe directly on the elements, are they not then concelebrating?

 

[1anonymous]

Thanks for all the answers and advice. When it comes to the consecration, I’ll be honest. I have NEVER NOT seen a priest breathe over the chalice and ciborium. Maybe I’m just blessed. I still haven’t found anything that says exactly what the priests posture is supposed to be. It’s not in the GIRM. If it is, I didn’t see it. Thanks!

 

[IrishAm]

WHAT??? I read it on the Internet! It Must Be True:manvspc:

Ken

Or, as I tell my kids, “The Internet is the bathroom wall of a technological world.” Sigh.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Thanks for all the answers and advice. When it comes to the consecration, I’ll be honest. I have NEVER NOT seen a priest breathe over the chalice and ciborium. Maybe I’m just blessed. I still haven’t found anything that says exactly what the priests posture is supposed to be. It’s not in the GIRM. If it is, I didn’t see it. Thanks!

It sounds like this cannot then be considered an abuse. I have seen the same a Joanne posted–that the priest bends or bows slightly and then kneels after. The words, the priests intention, and for matter are what is important.

Originally Posted by Joannm
There is nothing in the rubrics that say he must breath on the host and chalice. It says he should bend slightly (I am not directly quoting). The only priests I have actually seen breath over the host and chalice are very traditional priests.

Going back to your other questions, you told me that the DRE at this church is fine, it’s just that you don’t like some of the volunteer teachers. Do you *and *your spouse volunteer? If you both would, you can cover your oldest children’s classes–or whichever of your children are receiving a sacrament that year. If you choose 2 important years (say 2nd and 5th) and stick with those grades, you can influence not only your own children, but those of all the other parishoners as they go through those stages.

Certainly we are free to attend any parish we choose. However, I beleive strongly in attending the local parish and unless there are serious errors being taught that you truly cannot combat, you should stay and help make that parish better for everyone who belongs.

 

[jujubee]

My family drives by 3 other churches (a drive of about 25 minutes) in order to get to the parish we attend. I reverted back to the faith a couple years ago, my husband is non-Catholic, and my two young boys attend an evangelical protestant school. This parish is more reverent, formal, traditional, etc. Because of that it is the only one my husband feels comfortable attending with me (go figure). Because of that it is the church that best helps me make use of all the treasures of our faith as I catechize the family.

I think everyone else has brought up great reasons about why faithful Catholics should stay in their local parish and be a light to the world. I agree with all that. But sometimes you just know that something else is the best choice for your primary apostolate, your family.

I wish you best in your situation. May the Lord guide you.

 

[1anonymous]

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to give you an update about something that happened this weekend at Mass. One of the priests, after giving his chalice to the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, turned to the altar and poured the Precious Blood from another chalice into his to fill it back up. I’m no liturgist but I’m pretty darn sure that is NOT correct and an abuse.

 

[paperwight]

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to give you an update about something that happened this weekend at Mass. One of the priests, after giving his chalice to the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, turned to the altar and poured the Precious Blood from another chalice into his to fill it back up. I’m no liturgist but I’m pretty darn sure that is NOT correct and an abuse.

It’s an abuse to consecrate one large pitcher of wine, and then pour it into different chalices, yes.

But what you describe is simply an emergency measure to facilitate the smooth reception by the people of the Precious Blood. What’s the alternative? That the priest offer one chalice until it’s empty, then leave the queue while he goes and fetches another chalice? How does that contribute to a seemly and reverent reception?

EMHC at our church quite often have to quietly pour from one chalice to another, when the chalice is nearly empty at the side chapel, for instance, but the one held by the EMHC who had been distributing at another point in the church is left with some when his/her queue has gone. Sometimes they combine the amounts, sometimes they simply swap chalices if there is a great deal left in one. The aim is always to solve potential problems in such a way that the communicants don’t realise that anything is amiss, as the last thing the EMHC want to do is disrupt anyone’s prayers as they come up to receive.

 

[Liraco]

One of the priests, after giving his chalice to the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, turned to the altar and poured the Precious Blood from another chalice into his to fill it back up. I’m no liturgist but I’m pretty darn sure that is NOT correct and an abuse.

Paper may have a point. I personally don’t see such things as there is only one chalice consecrated and we generally only receive the body but not the blood. When we do receive the blood, it’s through intinction and it seems to happen only during special occasions or when only the priest is giving communion as the extraordinary ministers aren’t allowed to do this.

1, have you talked to the priest about this in a letter or asked anyone else about this?

 

[uselessbeggar]

Do you know the name of the parish your new pastor left? You might want to check it out and see how he left it. Unless ordered by the bishop the pastor does not usually change his ways.

Also in what age bracket is he?

On occasion my husband and I left a parish because our spiritual lives were suffering where we were. (children were grown by this time) I can’t imagine a situation where parents would have to re-instruct the children to correct abuses or anything else not acceptable. How
confusing to a youngster!!

Pray to the Holy Spirit, give it an honest, patient try and then let your heart will lead you to the Sacred Heart. He promised us His peace.

Remember that God is love and His love for you is unfathomable. Have confidence that all will be well.

uselessbeggar

 

[VioletMary]

For the “short answer portion” of this post, skip right to the last 2 paragraphs. That’s where my bottom-line answer is. The following is the context.

My family has been attending the same parish for over 15 years, and despite some liturgical abuses (EMC’s self-communicating “real bread” eucharist after mass–it couldn’t be stored more than a day without growing mold–and the bread was baked by parishoners using honey and oil as well as wheat flour and water, for example), stayed there because we were being taught the Gospel and being spiritually fed. Parishoners went to the bishop and even wrote to the Vatican about these things, and nothing changed. The pastor was made a monsignior.

We were assigned another pastor, and some things were ameliorated, e.g., the species was made of flour and water only. However, new practices included standing from the “orate fratres” until everyone had received Holy Communion–and with singing or music during the whole process. There was no time for a proper thanksgiving after Communion, and since the cantor announced the new “custom” of standing throughout, there was no chance of “innocently” kneeling due to “ignorance.” The last time we attended there, I wept. I could not pray. There was too much noise and activity, and if I did kneel, it was obvious and I was calling attention to myself.

We attended a mass at an old parish which has a religious order priest, and which had maintained most of the church furnishings (except the main altar). It isn’t perfect, but I am able to actually pray and worship. The homilies have included reverence for the eucharist and encouragement of the sacrament of penance/reconciliation. My soul is now at peace at mass.

You sound relatively young (grade-school kids?). My kids are just about out of college. I tell you one thing to consider, from my “advanced age:” you have only one go-around at life. This is it–no rehearsal in order to do better later for your kids. This is THE time you are teaching them about God and worship and prayer. I would say, pray pray pray pray pray–but keeping in mind your primary vocation as their parent. * And make sure you are in accord with your spouse about where you should worship; God is speaking in her/his heart too*.

God doesn’t call everyone to be a prophet or a martyr. Isaiah, for example, knew that God was calling him, as did David and Moses. They were crystal clear as to their calling. You don’t have much time to “bend the trees” into the form that they will grow, before they are leaving the house to live on their own. It happened faster than I ever could have guessed. Maybe they will be the ones called to be prophets in their time.

 

[PJM]

=1anonymous;5510466]Hi,

I’m not sure if this is the right place but here goes:

I came on here to ask for some advice about a decision I am going to have to make in the near future. I am posting as “anonymous” because of my position and we can leave it at that. I have talked to my spiritual director as well other close friends and I am at a point where I’m still not sure what to do. The question is: I am at a parish where there was a good priest that is more orthodox than most but they have been replaced with someone that just lets things go and is fairly liberal. By that I mean people are starting to do what they want. Another priest at our parish is starting to change things in the Mass, things like that. The CCD program is not so hot and most kids come out not knowing much. I have a family with young children and I don’t know whether to stay and try to help the parish by reporting such things to the pastor, bishop, etc. and try and make a difference, or leave and go to a parish in a neighboring city that I really know is solid. I know that if I try to stay and fight I pretty much know I will get nowhere because of the people there. They want things to be soft and protestantized the way they used to be. The problem is that I feel I have an obligation to help if I can. If I didn’t have kids I would no doubt stay and try to fight. I don’t want them to have to go through this garbage and have to come home every Sunday and tell them how Mass is supposed to be. By the way, I’m not some over-the-top right-wing traditionalist (no offense anybody! ) or anything, just a solid Catholic. And I’m not talking about little abuses either. I mean things that may make the consecration invalid, things along that line. I can’t really go into details because of my situation. Back on point, I feel that all this would be confusing to my children. I know people that have been through this fight before to no avail. I am praying about this constantly and I ask that you pray for our parish as well. If you have any advice I ask that you please let me hear it. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks and God bless.

***I do not feel qualified to tell you what to do. Pary, seek spiritual assistance and then do what gives you the greatest amount of inner-peace.

In a very similar situation, I left and found another parish. I’m glad that I did.

Love and prayers,***