I have been studying and pondering all the different Keys mentioned in the Bible, who holds them and how this all fits together.

[schaick]

A Key to The Kingdom
If you want to know about keys,kneel at the feet of The Chief Locksmith Jesus ;who gave all the Keys to St.Peter"the Rock"where he hides them in a" Safe"place in the Vatican City.One Pope after another has been entrusted as a keep of the Gate.He opens and shuts this gate as the Holy Spirit blows His breath and sets the Kingdom on fire with His Love.Pope Benedict is now an expert lockmith who teaches and upholds all the treasures,which will be secure until the end of time.Entrust the wealth of your soul to this secure fortress and invest everything you have, to have a “Share"when the Heavenly Gates are open to reveal the " Will” or plan of The Chief Locksmith in the Light of Eternal Glory.

“who gave all the Keys to St.Peter"the Rock"where he hides them in a” Safe"place in the Vatican City"

I don’t think you want to use that arguement, because it sounds very Gnostic, which is something early church father fought against. Gnostism is all about holding the power of hidden or secret knowledge. No one else knows this special knowledge but a select few.

Gnostics belief in salvation comes from a secret, hidden knowledge and is better then what God revealed in Scripture.

 

[schaick]

Then let’s assume you’re correct. Christ said He would, but He never did. Now what are we saying? Just as Christ told the Apostles He would suffer, He did. Just as Christ told Peter He would give him the keys, He did.

No you are reading that into what I said. I am saying that Jesus said “I will” and I am asking when? Catholics believe it was before Peter disowned Jesus- I don’t think so it was after this. Possibly here: Acts 2

I truly believe that the Holy Spirit was in some way involved:

John 20

19On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

After the crucifixion.

John 16
7…Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Maybe when He singled Peter out among the Apostles again. When He told Peter three times to feed His lambs and follow Him. Again, Christ did not say He would do something and then didn’t do it.

If no one held the keys, that Christ said He would give, but didn’t give?

There is definately a lot going on with the number 3- Peter disowning 3 times Jesus saying feed His lambs take care of my sheep, feed my sheep, appearing to the disciples 3times after the crucifixion.

John 21
14This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.

Correct GOD always keeps HIS promises.

Yet we find warnings about the dangers of ‘interpretations’ in scriptures. Every Christian claims to know truth. Do they all agree? If they do not, someone has wrested the scriptures; the unlearned, the unstable or the unwise.

Trinitarian Christians - on the basics, yes about what is truly important to our salvation. Interpretations have to be supported by the whole Bible.

Now, Protestants have the Bible, yet they claim to know the interpretation better than those they got it from. Does this make any sense at all?

We know the Gospels were always accept, but the entire New Testament, yes.

Yes actually, very much possible and how ironic!! Especially when some Protestants bash Catholics so! There are always students that surpass their teachers.

Think on this- Catholics are very much about tradition- Trinitarian Christians are ALL about the WORD. All our energy goes to the Word of GOD, everything about our church revolves around the WORD. Much of Catholism goes to the following of tradition.

 

[JRKH]

Think on this- Catholics are very much about tradition- Trinitarian Christians are ALL about the WORD. All our energy goes to the Word of GOD, everything about our church revolves around the WORD. Much of Catholism goes to the following of tradition.

Hmmm - Not to derail the discussion of the Keys, but do you realize that “the WORD”, that “Trinitarian Christians”, (which includes catholics) are, “ALL about”, IS part of Catholic Tradition?
In other words, Every Trintarian Christian, Catholic or otherwise, uses a bible NT canon that was settled upon, by the Catholic Church, in council, around 400 AD. The Bible canon was not “dropped from the sky” as some seem to think, but was developed in light of Catholic Church oral teaching and tradition in the first 3 centuries.

As you spend time around here, you may find that most, if not all, Catholic “tradition” is found either implicitely or explicitely in The Bible. Also you will find that most, if not all, NCC theology/interpretation is founded on some “Tradition”. Sola Scriptura itself, that bedrock of protestantism, is not found in Scripture or in the OT covenant.

Like i said I don’t intend to derail the "Keys’ discussion, but since you asked us to consider “tradition” in Christianity, that is my response.

Peace
James

 

[wisdomseeker]

ick;6285947]No you are reading that into what I said. I am saying that Jesus said “I will” and I am asking when? Catholics believe it was before Peter disowned Jesus- I don’t think so it was after this. Possibly here: Acts 2

I truly believe that the Holy Spirit was in some way involved:

John 20

19On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

After the crucifixion.

John 16
7…Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

There is definately a lot going on with the number 3- Peter disowning 3 times Jesus saying feed His lambs take care of my sheep, feed my sheep, appearing to the disciples **3times after the crucifixion.

John 21**
14This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.

Correct GOD always keeps HIS promises.

Yet we find warnings about the dangers of ‘interpretations’ in scriptures. Every Christian claims to know truth. Do they all agree? If they do not, someone has wrested the scriptures; the unlearned, the unstable or the unwise.

Trinitarian Christians - on the basics, yes about what is truly important to our salvation. Interpretations have to be supported by the whole Bible.

We know the Gospels were always accept, but the entire New Testament, yes.

Yes actually, very much possible and how ironic!! Especially when some Protestants bash Catholics so! There are always students that surpass their teachers.

Think on this- Catholics are very much about tradition- Trinitarian Christians are ALL about the WORD. All our energy goes to the Word of GOD, everything about our church revolves around the WORD. Much of Catholism goes to the following of tradition.

you seem to be hung up on the premises that if protestants dont believe then it must not be True. please! protestants were not sent by Jesus the CC is.

"To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it" St ignatious of Loyola

 

[schaick]

It’s interesting that God reveals who Jesus is to Simon (Peter) before the passion, and then after the resurrection; God reveals to Peter in Acts 10 after the resurrection, that He “Peter” (Kephas) will excercise his Keys to the Kingdom, and loose the Gentiles into the Church as Jesus will do in heaven.

 

[schaick]

Hmmm - Not to derail the discussion of the Keys, but do you realize that “the WORD”, that “Trinitarian Christians”, (which includes catholics) are, “ALL about”, IS part of Catholic Tradition?
In other words, Every Trintarian Christian, Catholic or otherwise, uses a bible NT canon that was settled upon, by the Catholic Church, in council, around 400 AD. The Bible canon was not “dropped from the sky” as some seem to think, but was developed in light of Catholic Church oral teaching and tradition in the first 3 centuries.

As you spend time around here, you may find that most, if not all, Catholic “tradition” is found either implicitely or explicitely in The Bible. Also you will find that most, if not all, NCC theology/interpretation is founded on some “Tradition”. Sola Scriptura itself, that bedrock of protestantism, is not found in Scripture or in the OT covenant.

Like i said I don’t intend to derail the "Keys’ discussion, but since you asked us to consider “tradition” in Christianity, that is my response.

Peace
James

Actually the bedrock of trinitarian Christianity is GOD’s WORD.

I should clarify something here when I say GD’s Word I am simply speaking of the Holy Bible. When I say GOD’s WORD I am speaking of the Holy Bible and more importantly GOD’s Word incarnate, Jesus.

Please see this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6242887&postcount=254

Tradition is not bad if it jives with the Word of GOD. One must use scripture to judge whether a tradition is good or from GOD.

 

[schaick]

why go through the trouble? did not Jesus give us a Teaching Church?

we know that the Church is not a building? no, you think that.

the Church is an institution and also a building. the House of God where we go to Worship God and where His presense is assured.

just go back to the OT and see how important the Temple was to God. it is a Sacred Place. it is where the Church offers Sacrifice to God.

Not sure what you mean go through the trouble of what?

Some of the early churches met in peoples homes, wasn’t GOD there? When the Jewish Christians were no longer able to worship in the Temples they met in homes for sure.

I have had to mentioned this to Catholics before- you don’t need to go to any church to be in the presence of GOD. You can be assured that HE is at your side always.

 

[rinnie]

Not sure what you mean go through the trouble of what?

Some of the early churches met in peoples homes, wasn’t GOD there? When the Jewish Christians were no longer able to worship in the Temples they met in homes for sure.

I have had to mentioned this to Catholics before- you don’t need to go to any church to be in the presence of GOD. You can be assured that HE is at your side always.

But then if we do not have to go to Church why did Jesus CHrist establish the CC and tell us in the commandments to keep holy the sabbath.

Why did Jesus say this is my body which has been given up for you. How are we supposed to participate in the Eucharist if we say home.

No one has ever denied that God is everywhere. But why do you deny the living Christ in the CC? Why do you deny that we need the Eucharist and Sacraments to have eternal life?

 

[rinnie]

Gabriel of 12;6265880:

Thank you for that quote-**that through my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. **

That is exactly my belief- it is all about GOD’s WORD.

Peter discredits himself. So you say not on the faith of Peter because it failed? Well Peter was a mere human, why built on a person that could fail?

I say it is the TRUTH of the statement that Peter uttered that is the foundation of the Church.

Peter was proclaiming what he learned from GOD- Matthew 16:17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

GOD’s WORD revealed to Peter.

The TRUTH that is the WORD of GOD can not fail. It is the rock.

The reason we KNOW that Peter cannot FAIL is because Jesus told us at Pentecost he would be sending the Advocate the HS to lead the Church so it would not fail. We do not believe that Peter is the word we believe that the HS is working through Peter the way Jesus promised. He gave Peter the keys to the kingdom to lead us all to the truth through the HS. The power that Peter has is the power that was given to him by God. Peter has no power on his own. Why do you deny that CHrist said he would send the HS to lead them. It is quite clear in scripture.

 

[JRKH]

Actually the bedrock of trinitarian Christianity is GOD’s WORD.

I should clarify something here when I say GD’s Word I am simply speaking of the Holy Bible. When I say GOD’s WORD I am speaking of the Holy Bible and more importantly GOD’s Word incarnate, Jesus.

Please see this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6242887&postcount=254

Tradition is not bad if it jives with the Word of GOD. One must use scripture to judge whether a tradition is good or from GOD.

No problem. You asked for us to consider the question of tradition and Scripture and this I did and responded to you. The Bible, “GD’s Word”, as you say above is the product of the first 400 years of teaching tradition, both oral and written, of The Church. The books selected to be included in the NT canon (and subequently reaffirmed at least 7 times, without change, all before the reformation) were determined based on several criteria including their conformance with Church teaching, as transmitted orally and written, through apostolic succession.

The importance of this combination of the written word in the Bible as well as the “oral tradition” and “written tradition” of the Church fathers, cannot be overestimated. For all of this points to the “singular” “correct” understanding of the Truth as delivered by GOD’S WORD, which is Christ incarnate.

Please believe me when I say that, during my many years sojourning outside of the Catholic Church I pondered often this question. How does one resolve the many different interpretations of the Bible by the many different faith communites?
The answer, it seems to me, is that while personal reading and understanding is not a bad thing on certain levels, it is also important not to isolate yourself when interpreting scripture. It is important to seek out how these things were understood in the past by those who came before us, and by those who came before them. It is equally important not to seek out only those who hold similar viewpoints to our own.
This is critically important particularly where different people hold differing ideas on doctrinal issues. Christ prayed that we be one as He and The Father are one. Communities splitting due to doctrinal issues are not conforming to Christ’s prayer.

The Catholic Church, instead of splitting, has a system in place by which these issues are discussed and debated, sometimes for centuries, before something is doctrinally or dogmatically declared. This allows the faithful to take advantage of the broad and deep body of past writing and decisions as well as the time to prayerfully and humbly discuss and reflect on what Christ is truly trying to teach us.

Thus it is that I came to the unavoidable conclusion that the Catholic Church, for all of her warts, has the best, most consistant and most uniting system for teaching, and that teaching has been guided and protected by the Holy Spirit since the beginning when The Keys were given to The Church by Christ.

Peace
James

 

[wisdomseeker]

Not sure what you mean go through the trouble of what?

Some of the early churches met in peoples homes, wasn’t GOD there? When the Jewish Christians were no longer able to worship in the Temples they met in homes for sure.

I have had to mentioned this to Catholics before- you don’t need to go to any church to be in the presence of GOD. You can be assured that HE is at your side always.

Jesus built a Church begining 2000 yrs ago. the Church still here today. she reads Scriptures to us and she feeds us wiht Eucharist. Sacraments commanded by Christ for us.

the early was Catholic and it is Catholic today. 2000 yrs have passed since the Church started. do you still want to go back and begin the Church all over again?

God is most present in His Holy Temple the Church. the Eucharist.

**
“To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it” St ignatious of Loyola**

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Actually the bedrock of trinitarian Christianity is GOD’s WORD.

I should clarify something here when I say GD’s Word I am simply speaking of the Holy Bible. When I say GOD’s WORD I am speaking of the Holy Bible and more importantly GOD’s Word incarnate, Jesus.

Please see this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6242887&postcount=254

Tradition is not bad if it jives with the Word of GOD. One must use scripture to judge whether a tradition is good or from GOD.

If people interpret scriptures for themselves, without any specific parameters or guides, we have multiple interpretations that differ from each other. Now the bedrock is resting on loose sand.

Saying Tradition is not bad if it jives with the Word of God, is up to interpretations. Again we have to go to the pillar and ground of truth. There is only one truth, and coincidently, Christ only started one Church. That’s where the Word of God sends us to be one flock.

He doesn’t send us among different truths to decide for ourselves.

schaick, you’ve posted your view several times now. It’s also been posted by others. Without the Word of God supporting what you’re saying, it’s a not scriptural teaching, it’s man made.

Please provide us the scriptures that tells us that scriptures are the only necessary authority for men to turn too.

Please provide the scriptures that tell us how to know which interpretation is correct, when there are different interpretations. This will show us who to listen too, in reference to your view of Tradition ‘jiving’ with the Word.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No you are reading that into what I said. I am saying that Jesus said “I will” and I am asking when? Catholics believe it was before Peter disowned Jesus- I don’t think so it was after this.

Don’t you think your choice of words is disrespectful of Simon, who Christ renamed Peter, which means rock? Peter denied knowing Christ, he did not ‘disown’ Him. And, even after Peter denied Him, Christ singled Peter out once again and instructed him to tend to His flock, 3 times. These are the last words of Christ recorded by John, who was among the witnesses of Christ singling Peter out to tend to His flock. Christ ascended, and the key holder’s job began.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Yes actually, very much possible and how ironic!! Especially when some Protestants bash Catholics so! There are always students that surpass their teachers.

Think on this- Catholics are very much about tradition- Trinitarian Christians are ALL about the WORD. All our energy goes to the Word of GOD, everything about our church revolves around the WORD. Much of Catholism goes to the following of tradition.

Speculative, to justify. That’s what I think of your students surpassing their teachers analogy. Show us an instance that one of Christ’s students surpassed Him.

You twist what Catholics believe, for a self serving jusification. What do you really know about Catholicism? How did you become a better expert than Catholics?

Catholicism revolves around scriptures and traditions.

Again, produce the scriptures that say all our energies goe to the Word of God (which is saying the Word of God is the ONLY authority). If it’s not in scriptures, all those engergies are revolving around man made traditions that are not Biblical. Then produce the scriptures that show us how to know your interpretations are correct above those that are different. Basically, when you claim you have the correct interpretation, you are claiming infallibility, that you discredit against Christ’s Church.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Not sure what you mean go through the trouble of what?

Some of the early churches met in peoples homes, wasn’t GOD there? When the Jewish Christians were no longer able to worship in the Temples they met in homes for sure.

I have had to mentioned this to Catholics before- you don’t need to go to any church to be in the presence of GOD. You can be assured that HE is at your side always.

Again, reading scriptures without even attempting to understand the times they were written. Do you think that with the persecutions, under the penalty of death, Christians gathered publically? How large do you think those homes were?

Christ told us:

**Mat 26:26 And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread and blessed and broke and gave to his disciples and said: Take ye and eat. This is my body.
Mat 26:27 And taking the chalice, he gave thanks and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this.
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.

Mar 14:22 And whilst they were eating, Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke and gave to them and said: Take ye. This is my body.
Mar 14:23 And having taken the chalice, giving thanks, he gave it to them. And they all drank of it.
Mar 14:24 And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many.

Luk 22:17 And having taken the chalice, he gave thanks and said: Take and divide it among you.
Luk 22:18 For I say to you that I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, till the kingdom of God come.
Luk 22:19 And taking bread, he gave thanks and brake and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.
Luk 22:20 In like manner, the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.**

He is present in His Church, for those that believe Him.

You have to read scriptures in context. When He spoke of two or three together, He was speaking to ONLY His Apostles, the authority He appointed over His Church.

This does not mean that Christ leaves everyone else orphans, but it certainly doesn’t endorse everyone making themselves the authority and their homes a Church, their own private interpretations into doctrines, and forsaking the gift of the Church Christ gave us. He is the head of the body of Christ, which is His Church. He resides in those who reside in Him.

 

[schaick]

Don’t you think your choice of words is disrespectful of Simon, who Christ renamed Peter, which means rock? Peter denied knowing Christ, he did not ‘disown’ Him. And, even after Peter denied Him, Christ singled Peter out once again and instructed him to tend to His flock, 3 times. These are the last words of Christ recorded by John, who was among the witnesses of Christ singling Peter out to tend to His flock. Christ ascended, and the key holder’s job began.

To deny is to disown. To disown is to deny a relationship with someone.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

To deny is to disown. To disown is to deny a relationship with someone.

I guess some have to add an extra slant to somethings for their own self justification, or in an attempt to make themself seem right over other explanations.

From my perspective, Christ did not consider Himself ‘disowned’, or even denied, when He approached Peter asking him three times if he loved Him, more than the others in the first time He asked it, and then instructed Peter to tend to His flock three times.

 

[schaick]

“Speculative, to justify. That’s what I think of your students surpassing their teachers analogy. Show us an instance that one of Christ’s students surpassed Him.”

No! Plese don’t twist my words to blasphemy by adding and taking out of context what we are talking about. I am speaking of mere human teachers here, specifically the Catholic Church as teacher in the context of my statement.

“The reason we KNOW that Peter cannot FAIL is because Jesus told us at Pentecost he would be sending the Advocate the HS to lead the Church so it would not fail.”

I have said all along that the possession of the Keys has something to do with the Holy Spirit. The Keys weren’t handed out until the Holy Spirit came- after Jesus’ crucifixion.

“If people interpret scriptures for themselves, without any specific parameters or guides, we have multiple interpretations that differ from each other. Now the bedrock is resting on loose sand.”

going off topic here - There are guides to interpreted Scripture- Scripture must interprete scripture. Your interpretation can not go against anything mentioned in the Holy Bible. A lot of it is being done for us by scholars- they have looked at it following the rules of grammer, history. The interpretation has to be in context, don’t base a doctrine on one passage, don’t add something that isn’t there. Jesus has to be central in all interpretations.

“Again, reading scriptures without even attempting to understand the times they were written. Do you think that with the persecutions, under the penalty of death, Christians gathered publically? How large do you think those homes were?”

Not sure what you are saying here - Do mean you think that the early Christians were able to build churches right away? or statement about the Temple- as the Jews became Christians they had to leave the Temples see what happened to Stephen. - Acts 6-8.

I have come across another wat to think about the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. **

Say you are in the Kingdom - then you have salvation**- you either have the Keys or someone has let you in. Look at what we need for salvation:

2 Timothy 3
15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Romans 1
16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 10
9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Ephesians 1
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

1 Peter 1
8Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

** John 3**
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

John 3
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Mark 16
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

Matthew 10
32 “Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.”

John 14
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

2 Corinthians 7
10Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Now think on this:
Can a human let you into the Kingdom if you have not followed the ways of salvation set forth in the Holy Bible?

Can any human deny access to the Kingdom if you have fulfilled all the requirements needed for salvation?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

“Speculative, to justify. That’s what I think of your students surpassing their teachers analogy. Show us an instance that one of Christ’s students surpassed Him.”

No! Plese don’t twist my words to blasphemy by adding and taking out of context what we are talking about. I am speaking of mere human teachers here, specifically the Catholic Church as teacher in the context of my statement.

“The reason we KNOW that Peter cannot FAIL is because Jesus told us at Pentecost he would be sending the Advocate the HS to lead the Church so it would not fail.”

I have said all along that the possession of the Keys has something to do with the Holy Spirit. The Keys weren’t handed out until the Holy Spirit came- after Jesus’ crucifixion.

“If people interpret scriptures for themselves, without any specific parameters or guides, we have multiple interpretations that differ from each other. Now the bedrock is resting on loose sand.”

going off topic here - There are guides to interpreted Scripture- Scripture must interprete scripture. Your interpretation can not go against anything mentioned in the Holy Bible. A lot of it is being done for us by scholars- they have looked at it following the rules of grammer, history. The interpretation has to be in context, don’t base a doctrine on one passage, don’t add something that isn’t there. Jesus has to be central in all interpretations.

“Again, reading scriptures without even attempting to understand the times they were written. Do you think that with the persecutions, under the penalty of death, Christians gathered publically? How large do you think those homes were?”

Not sure what you are saying here - Do mean you think that the early Christians were able to build churches right away? or statement about the Temple- as the Jews became Christians they had to leave the Temples see what happened to Stephen. - Acts 6-8.

I have come across another wat to think about the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. **

Say you are in the Kingdom - then you have salvation**- you either have the Keys or someone has let you in. Look at what we need for salvation:

2 Timothy 3
15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Romans 1
16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 10
9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Ephesians 1
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

1 Peter 1
8Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

** John 3**
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

John 3
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Mark 16
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

Matthew 10
32 “Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.”

John 14
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

2 Corinthians 7
10Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Now think on this:
Can a human let you into the Kingdom if you have not followed the ways of salvation set forth in the Holy Bible?

Can any human deny access to the Kingdom if you have fulfilled all the requirements needed for salvation?

‘going off topic here’ = there are no scriptures to support the multiple interpretations that arise from each individual interpreting scriptures for themselves and there are no scriptures to support the Protestant view of how to know which interpretations are correct and which are incorrect.

Christ promised His Apostles, in a discussion exclusively with them ONLY, that He would send the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, to teach them and guide them in all things. He promised to be with them until the consummation of the world. These were mortal men Christ knew would not be on this earth at the consummation of the world, He was speaking to His Church, through those He appointed over His Church, the pillar and ground of truth, where the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known.

Christ is infallible, and His word tells us how we can have confidence in the men of His Church.

 

[schaick]

You are confusing the **one interpretation **with the **many applications **and combining christian cults with all Christians.

As i hhave said the interpretation has to jive with the Gospel- all other scripture:

Galatians 1
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Have you ever been to a Bible study group? Have you been to one with many of he different trinitarian Christians?

Can a human let you into the Kingdom if you have not followed the ways of salvation set forth in the Holy Bible?

Can any human deny access to the Kingdom if you have fulfilled all the requirements needed for salvation?