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SeekerofTruth27
Guest
This is good advice. In fact, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) received an imprimatur (let it be printed) from Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI back when he was Cardinal Ratzinger.
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thequeen
Guest
Yes I am so in agreement the Op needs to talk with the Parish Priests and tell him what is going on concerning this rcia director. Oh by the way I have really enjoyed your posts in Tell an outrageous lie about the above poster thread and also the ones that other people have posted about you in there they really give me a good laugh
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CaptFun
Guest
Hi. To address your issues one by one, I post in RED below. CaptFun
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CaptFun
Guest
(continued)
The church says you must buy fair trade goods and here’s the name of a store where you can do so. The church says you must bring your own grocery bags to the store. The church says you must boycott (name of company) because they don’t believe as we do.
Strike one, two and three. Sounds like someone’s political preferences. A Catholic COULD believe those things are good to do … but Church teaching? Not officially, no. Shop where you like if the product itself is not sinful (pornography, an abortion clinic, etc). The Church is opposed to artificial contraceptives … but since most grocery stores sell these now … a Catholic does not have to starve (but he/she shouldn’t buy the contraceptives).
What do your churches teach about Social Justice? Do they leave it up to the individual’s interpretation? Do they think it is a complex and nuanced subject, and tell you that Catholic belief on the specifics of it are varied? My church apparently doesn’t think that. They think it is black and white with no room for differing opinions. What am I supposed to do when they hold access to the sacraments hostage to belief in that? < I’d seek me a new, “better for you”, less political (?) RCIA program if I were you.
- In this I’m presuming that you are not any part of the problem. Which, given the fact that all potential converts will be tempted by the Devil NOT to join the Church … maybe I shouldn’t presume. 
You seem thoughtful and sensible. The “Social Justice degree” is not a pre-requisite to baptism. In fact Pope Francis has spoken out recently about making the Church more easily accessible (to be joined by the willing).
Don’t know if it will help, but we’ve discussed RCIA here on the CAF Forums. Being a human thing (even though its a work of God when done right), there are problems. Your (name removed by moderator)ut here might be helpful to others. Though I think you should still join the Church (formally). In a way, as a Catechumen you already ARE part of the Church … and just formalizing a deeper more public commitment IMO.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=779970&page=8
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polki
Guest
Your RCIA instructor is putting his own personal liberal political beliefs into his teaching of the catechism. Social justice teaching of the Catholic Church is for the whole world, not to fit into the narrow lefty political views in the US. If you are on facebook, you can find Catholic democrat groups and conservative catholic groups. Both have different views about how Catholics are to carry out the Church’s teachings on social justice. When the two groups collide, there are usually fireworks. The Church is neither democrat nor republican and this teacher should stick to the catechism rather than turning theology into a platform to promote his own personal political agenda. But no you will not go to hell if you don’t recycle, and you can still be Catholic if you don’t believe in manmade global warming. Please don’t give up because of this joker of a teacher. He is wrong. Go speak to the priest. Oh, and you should be encouraged to read the Bible.
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whiterockdove
Guest
Please keep going. And I mean that in the sense of doing whatever it takes to join the church. Give The Holy Spirit a chance to work. Ask the angels and saints to pray for you!
Read these posts written to you, they are well researched and a good RCIA lesson. your RCIA experience doesn’t have to begin and end in that room with that instructor.
Praying for you
Read these posts written to you, they are well researched and a good RCIA lesson. your RCIA experience doesn’t have to begin and end in that room with that instructor.
Praying for you
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Ender
Guest
From the Dogmatic Constitution of Clement XI in 1713: 80. The reading of Sacred Scripture is for all.
81. The sacred obscurity of the Word of God is no reason for the laity to dispense themselves from reading it.
82. The Lord’s Day ought to be sanctified by Christians with readings of pious works and above all of the Holy Scriptures. It is harmful for a Christian to wish to withdraw from this reading.
83. It is an illusion to persuade oneself that knowledge of the mysteries of religion should not be communicated to women by the reading of Sacred Scriptures. Not from the simplicity of women, but from the proud knowledge of men has arisen the abuse of the Scriptures and have heresies been born.
84. To snatch away from the hands of Christians the New Testament, or to hold it closed against them by taking away from them the means of understanding it, is to close for them the mouth of Christ.
85. To forbid Christians to read Sacred Scripture, especially the Gospels, is to forbid the use of light to the sons of light, and to cause them to suffer a kind of excommunication.
Ender
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whatsmyname
Guest
Thank you everyone for all your replies and advice. Now that I’ve calmed down, I did send an email to the leader of RCIA and to my deacon explaining to them why I had walked out yesterday, that I was objecting to being taught as church doctrine that which is not, not that I object to recycling or fair trade chocolate, for example.
I am planning to call around this week and find out how other churches in my area approach RCIA. I think I will do better with a more formalized approach and one that uses the CCC more than I have done with this version. I may be too late to start at another church this year, but I suppose the extra year will give me time to find a group that doesn’t enrage me, and will give me time to learn to be more patient and humble.
I love my church, my priests, my group studies, the volunteer work I get to do through church, and the people I volunteer with, but RCIA teaching has really messed with my head. This wasn’t the first issue I’ve had with it, or even the worst issue, but it was a sort of final straw.
Again, thank you all for talking me down and expanding on church teaching.
I am planning to call around this week and find out how other churches in my area approach RCIA. I think I will do better with a more formalized approach and one that uses the CCC more than I have done with this version. I may be too late to start at another church this year, but I suppose the extra year will give me time to find a group that doesn’t enrage me, and will give me time to learn to be more patient and humble.
I love my church, my priests, my group studies, the volunteer work I get to do through church, and the people I volunteer with, but RCIA teaching has really messed with my head. This wasn’t the first issue I’ve had with it, or even the worst issue, but it was a sort of final straw.
Again, thank you all for talking me down and expanding on church teaching.
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StevenFrancis
Guest
Since you were serious enough to begin RCIA, I would think ending your journey to Rome over a single class taught by layity at one particular parish somewhere would be a pretty sad thing. At a very minimum, you should schedule some time with your parish Priest to discuss this very thing, and if you find yourself, then under the impression that the Priest is not representing correctly the wide variety of ways in which Catholics may view and serve poor, (by the way…none of what you’ve mentioned sounds outside the Church teaching to me), then, I’d seek to discuss with your diocese Ordinary (your Bishop). But the Church established by Christ Jesus, and your participation in the her sacramental life is far too important to be discouraged by one session of RCIA which may or may not have even correctly portrayed Church teaching.
Also…if you have not already done so, PLEASE get, and read a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and a good Catholic Bible. If you need either one, and don’t have the means, please PM me here and I’d be happy to mail them to you.
But also,
The CCC and Catholic Bibles are both on-line for free here:
CCC: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
My favorite Catholic Bible can be found here: (Knox) newadvent.org/bible/gen001.htm
Also: Douay-Rheims: drbo.org/
New American Bible: usccb.org/bible/books-of-the-bible/
Revised Standard Version (Catholic Edition): jmom.honlam.org/rsvce/
May God bless, keep and guide you on your faith journey into the one, Holy, catholic, and Apostolic Church.
Good websites, besides Catholic Answers, (which is marvelous, please check out their resources as well: www.catholic.com
catholicscomehome.org/ (choose the appropriate door for your situation)
newadvent.org/ - (has a full library of Church Fathers, the CCC, the Bible, Catholic Encyclopedia, and many many more Catholic resources
w2.vatican.va/content/vatican/en.html- It’s the Vatican itself. Has an enormous wealth of Catholic teaching.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Whatsmyname…good…I also agree with another poster as well to not be too reactionary to one particular person…but always go to the parish pastor. Not even the deacon. Go to the pastor.
The RCIA I attended used the theme of faith on a journey, Catholicism a life long pilgrimage to the Lord and started with the sacraments in context of the catechism and church issues. We would come in and ask our own questions or expound on a point from our experience of living out as Catholics.
You need to understand the nature and mission of the Church…Christ is our life blood, not the clergy or any of us. So we need to know where to put our focus: on Christ.
Social justice in my archdiocese is definitely showing forth signs of activism and class issues and invalidation of aspects of the American way of life…our archbishop knows me and looked over…he is new.
I sent a letter to the direction they were going that was not reflecting the bishops’ statement on immigration as well as this anti-American attitude in a few phrases. This imbalance is giving Catholics a bad name across the country for imbalanced social justice.
So…you pray to have certitude of faith…and not react to the reactionary or activist comments or perceptions.
It would be good to stay but talk to the pastor and may be he can also personally guide you more. I sense you are are basically correct in your personal response to Christ. so have more self confidence and faith things will turn out.
God bless!
The RCIA I attended used the theme of faith on a journey, Catholicism a life long pilgrimage to the Lord and started with the sacraments in context of the catechism and church issues. We would come in and ask our own questions or expound on a point from our experience of living out as Catholics.
You need to understand the nature and mission of the Church…Christ is our life blood, not the clergy or any of us. So we need to know where to put our focus: on Christ.
Social justice in my archdiocese is definitely showing forth signs of activism and class issues and invalidation of aspects of the American way of life…our archbishop knows me and looked over…he is new.
I sent a letter to the direction they were going that was not reflecting the bishops’ statement on immigration as well as this anti-American attitude in a few phrases. This imbalance is giving Catholics a bad name across the country for imbalanced social justice.
So…you pray to have certitude of faith…and not react to the reactionary or activist comments or perceptions.
It would be good to stay but talk to the pastor and may be he can also personally guide you more. I sense you are are basically correct in your personal response to Christ. so have more self confidence and faith things will turn out.
God bless!
O
on_the_hill
Guest
So far as I know, a lot of leading Conservatives are Catholic, like Rick Santorum, Newt Gingerich…what’s your point?
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SuperLuigi
Guest
- The Catechism of the Catholic Church specifically rejects central planning, and calls out socialism and communism as evil. The Church would also reject crony capitalism, but not capitalism as a free market force that brings out the best in humanity.
- The Catechism also emphasizes private property rights.
- Finally, I’m VERY concerned that the Catholics you are talking to are arm-chair charity Christians who cannot be bothered for a dime of their own stock to “help the poor” but show up every 2-4 years to pull the level for the anti-life, anti-marriage, anti-religious freedom candidate.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Slow down, pardner.
I agree with everything you wrote, and I’m happily Catholic. Nothing wrong with Republicans, Conservatives, Libertarians and Tea Party types being Catholic.
Focus on the Gospel and the seven sacraments.
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Wampa
Guest
While I whole-heartedly agree with the excellent advice given in this thread, let me add two thoughts I didn’t see noted elsewhere.
Second, know that “figuring out” Catholicism can be a life-long process, not necessarily a one-time event. I’ve been in for 10 years now and I’m still sifting through the precise differences between dogma, doctrine, prudential judgement, opinion-you-ought-to-strongly-consider, opinion-you-can-largely-ignore, and the like on each of the hundreds of issues upon which the Church expresses a stance.
While my RCIA parish was definitely orthodox, I have since learned of an entire traditional side of the Church that I was not even aware of when I came in, which opened my eyes to a whole new set of answers to many of those topics. So be patient. Your job at this point is to get the theological fundamentals down. You can deep dive into specific topics like all the facets of social justice later. Little is black and white in that area like it is in others.
The good news is that you are not required to attend the parish where you go through RCIA. When I was going through it, I shopped around for a parish with a solid orthodox RCIA program, though I knew I would not be attending that parish permanently due to its location. Feel free to find a solid RCIA program elsewhere and continuing attending this parish that you seem to love in every other respect. Since you live in a large metro area, there should be several parishes known for RCIA programs with solid catechesis.
Second, know that “figuring out” Catholicism can be a life-long process, not necessarily a one-time event. I’ve been in for 10 years now and I’m still sifting through the precise differences between dogma, doctrine, prudential judgement, opinion-you-ought-to-strongly-consider, opinion-you-can-largely-ignore, and the like on each of the hundreds of issues upon which the Church expresses a stance.
While my RCIA parish was definitely orthodox, I have since learned of an entire traditional side of the Church that I was not even aware of when I came in, which opened my eyes to a whole new set of answers to many of those topics. So be patient. Your job at this point is to get the theological fundamentals down. You can deep dive into specific topics like all the facets of social justice later. Little is black and white in that area like it is in others.
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esieffe
Guest
If you read parts of the CCC that you disagreed with, there might have been a problem even before you went to your class.
I don’t have to LIKE everything in the CCC, but I have to accept it as the doctrine of the Church. There is a difference in my mind.
Having said that, it sounds like your RCIA director is in fact pushing his on agenda, and stretching things a bit. I would love it if the CCC said no death penalty at all, but it doesn’t It says it can be used in certain circumstances and describes what those are.
We are required to be good stewards of earth but NO WHERE does it say to recycle. Perhaps that was just an example of doing that.
Some things are black and white, some require thoughtful examination. Some can only be interpreted by us as individuals who are in our own unique situations.
To decide not to become Catholic based on reading a few pages and one RCIA class seems to me to be a bit rash. I would consider the suggestions that have been mentioned before making my exit. Try another program in a different church. You ARE allowed to cross parish boundaries and go to any Catholic church you wish as a Catholic.
If on the other hand there are fundamental differences between your beliefs and those of the CC perhaps you should just ease back into the discernment period or do more exploring.
I hope things work out in the very best way for you.
Best wishes.
-E
I don’t have to LIKE everything in the CCC, but I have to accept it as the doctrine of the Church. There is a difference in my mind.
Having said that, it sounds like your RCIA director is in fact pushing his on agenda, and stretching things a bit. I would love it if the CCC said no death penalty at all, but it doesn’t It says it can be used in certain circumstances and describes what those are.
We are required to be good stewards of earth but NO WHERE does it say to recycle. Perhaps that was just an example of doing that.
Some things are black and white, some require thoughtful examination. Some can only be interpreted by us as individuals who are in our own unique situations.
To decide not to become Catholic based on reading a few pages and one RCIA class seems to me to be a bit rash. I would consider the suggestions that have been mentioned before making my exit. Try another program in a different church. You ARE allowed to cross parish boundaries and go to any Catholic church you wish as a Catholic.
If on the other hand there are fundamental differences between your beliefs and those of the CC perhaps you should just ease back into the discernment period or do more exploring.
I hope things work out in the very best way for you.
Best wishes.
-E
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gardenswithkids
Guest
Before you walk away from a parish that you like, please go talk with your priest or pastor and share your concerns. Perhaps he knows some alternative catechesis available to you beyond this RCIA class. (It’s been done.) At the very least, your pastor should be made aware if his RCIA leader is scaring away potential converts through misinformation about the Church teachings.
J
Joy2day
Guest
From your first post, it seems you have missed the entire point of the catholic church, albeit due to erroneous focus in RCIA. Focus on Christ, get to know Him, and how you find Him within the catholic church, because He is there like nowhere else!
You are looking at the wrong things. Seek Him, & you will find! Praying for you. God wants you here, in the church.
You are looking at the wrong things. Seek Him, & you will find! Praying for you. God wants you here, in the church.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Joy2day is most correct…this is how we survive in the Catholic Church…keeping our faith and morals the Church has instructed us in the Lord, but not to focus on people…no matter how good.
The other point that came to me is on the issue of evangelization, and a program on EWTN.
Ralph Martin, who teaches seminarians, says that after RCIA, the person needs to keep supported in his faith in Christ. Too many times converts are encouraged to get into all sorts of parish programs when they are not ready.
For RCIA to promote a certain agenda…completely is missing the focus of Christ and how you are to keep your focus on Him after you are initiated into the Church. You should not be pressured into anything, including Social Justice.
I found a pamphlet on Social Justice I had picked up on this conference.
You cannot believe how broad Social Justice is and what the various compartments are within it…
So – the point is that involving yourself in Social Justice may fit you way down the road…or you may be led to the more contemplative life in the Church, deep prayer and intercessing for others, and more participating in the Liturgy…
Our mission to the world is two fold: Reconciling sinners back to God, and secondly keeping the sacrifice of the Lord’s Blood, His saving and redeeming works at the Mass…present to the world…not recycling, etc…
The other point that came to me is on the issue of evangelization, and a program on EWTN.
Ralph Martin, who teaches seminarians, says that after RCIA, the person needs to keep supported in his faith in Christ. Too many times converts are encouraged to get into all sorts of parish programs when they are not ready.
For RCIA to promote a certain agenda…completely is missing the focus of Christ and how you are to keep your focus on Him after you are initiated into the Church. You should not be pressured into anything, including Social Justice.
I found a pamphlet on Social Justice I had picked up on this conference.
You cannot believe how broad Social Justice is and what the various compartments are within it…
So – the point is that involving yourself in Social Justice may fit you way down the road…or you may be led to the more contemplative life in the Church, deep prayer and intercessing for others, and more participating in the Liturgy…
Our mission to the world is two fold: Reconciling sinners back to God, and secondly keeping the sacrifice of the Lord’s Blood, His saving and redeeming works at the Mass…present to the world…not recycling, etc…
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Ignatius
Guest
Unfortunately in RCIA as in Congress, Liberals will push through their agenda with no compunction of conscience or reason. It is sad that there are such in positions of authority in the Church and in Congress, but what can we do? We can only try to ask the Pastor (in the case of RCIA) or the voting public (in the case of Congress) to prevail on them to cease from forcing their Liberal Agenda on others.
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Andre1000
Guest
Or OP should come to Germany, because here are no requirements for entering the Church. (Source: Experience)Yes, because people reading by themselves and teaching themselves (or not) and then making their own decision about readiness for the Sacraments aren’t going to come up with even weirder theologies.
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