I have decided not to become Catholic

[Rau]

Everything I have stated that I believe IS contrary to Catholic teaching, per the RCIA leader. What I am taught in RCIA is what the church is teaching me, isn’t it? That is church teaching because I am being taught it by a duly designated leader of the church at a required church function and I am not allowed to join the church until I sit there and listen to it and learn it. It isn’t being taught as a belief that is optional or open to interpretation or nuanced, but as fact.

The church says you must recycle. The church says the death penalty is absolutely forbidden. The church says you must buy fair trade goods and here’s the name of a store where you can do so. The church says you must bring your own grocery bags to the store. The church says you must boycott (name of company) because they don’t believe as we do.

What do your churches teach about Social Justice? Do they leave it up to the individual’s interpretation? Do they think it is a complex and nuanced subject, and tell you that Catholic belief on the specifics of it are varied? My church apparently doesn’t think that. They think it is black and white with no room for differing opinions. What am I supposed to do when they hold access to the sacraments hostage to belief in that?

This is nonsense.

 

[Rau]

**Whatsmyname **- Your decision to walk out of the RCIA session was a good one. Your decision to write to the RCIA leader and the Deacon (and I hope the Parish Priest also) and call out this nonsense parading as teaching is an even better one.

But tell me - how have the other candidates reacted to the inappropriate content being presented in this class? You cannot be the only one reacting adversely?

 

[Rau]

Unfortunately in RCIA as in Congress, **Liberals **will push through their agenda with no compunction of conscience or reason. It is sad that there are such in positions of authority in the Church and in Congress, but what can we do? We can only try to ask the Pastor (in the case of RCIA) or the voting public (in the case of Congress) to prevail on them to cease from forcing their **Liberal **Agenda on others.

It has nothing to do specifically with “liberal” agenda (albeit that may adequately characterise the slant of this particular RCIA leader). No political “agenda” - communist, socialist, humanist, capitalist or other has a place in RCIA. The Church’s teaching competence and authority is strictly limited to matters of faith and morals.

 

[Tomdstone]

It has nothing to do specifically with “liberal” agenda (albeit that may adequately characterise the slant of this particular RCIA leader). No political “agenda” - communist, socialist, humanist, capitalist or other has a place in RCIA. The Church’s teaching competence and authority is strictly limited to matters of faith and morals.

The Church teaches charity and love of your neighbor. The poor and the disadvantaged are our neighbors. We have had sermons at Sunday Mass about our obligations in this regard.

 

[Scottgun]

What I am taught in RCIA is what the church is teaching me, isn’t it?

Not necessarily. I had a dissenting RCIA director. Thankfully, I did plenty of outside reading and could separate the authentic teachings from the BS. Thankfully, she was booted out eventually.

 

[Rau]

The Church teaches charity and love of your neighbor. The poor and the disadvantaged are our neighbors. We have had sermons at Sunday Mass about our obligations in this regard.

Yes, and you will read much about these things in the catechism, but nothing on recycling or other prescriptive and/or prudential matters addressed by this particular RCIA leader.

 

[whatsmyname]

**Whatsmyname **-
But tell me - how have the other candidates reacted to the inappropriate content being presented in this class? You cannot be the only one reacting adversely?

There are 5 candidates/catechumens, as far as I have been able to determine. There are another 15-20 leaders and instructors, I estimate, although I didn’t count them as I did the catechumens/candidates. Last month when we met, all the others said they were converting either because they were engaged to or had children with a Catholic. I was under the impression, although it may be wrong, that none of the others had any sort of particular religious background or had yet researched/studied Catholicism. They’ve all sat quietly and listened; I’m the only one who has ever spoken up so I don’t really know what they were thinking, if anything. Likely, they were just wondering why someone would get up and walk out in the middle of a session. I would say that most of the group looked a little glazed when I had some questions about the historical-critical method a few weeks ago (that method was the topic of our first two meetings - very informative, but maybe a little advanced for most of our group).

 

[KathleenGee]

You say they look a little glazed…they are not being catechized properly…they are not receiving the Light of Christ and RCIA is much better than what is seeming to be provided here.

Again, this is a most critical work in the Church, educating incoming members in the faith. This is the duty of the pastor and not the deacon who does not have jurisdiction or going to a comprised RCIA catechist. I don’t think your observations and reactions could possibly reach the pastor if this kind of talk is going on in there.

Please go to the pastor and even ask if it be better you transfer somewhere else if he cannot take time with you. You owe it to yourself…I don’t think things will improve much this year.

I completed course work on the RCIA program and I have not heard of someone going off on a tangent like that.

After initiation into the Church, members need to continue to find Christ in the Church as they grow…not more activities to join…most are not ready.

 

[Ignatius]

It has nothing to do specifically with “liberal” agenda (albeit that may adequately characterise the slant of this particular RCIA leader). No political “agenda” - communist, socialist, humanist, capitalist or other has a place in RCIA. The Church’s teaching competence and authority is strictly limited to matters of faith and morals.

Exactly my point, Rau. Unfortunately when Dissenters or Liberals get in charge of RCIA, they’ll push through their agenda with no compunction of conscience or reason even though it has no place in RCIA. It is sad that there are such people in positions of authority in the Church (and in Congress) but what can we do? We can only try to ask the Pastor (in the case of RCIA) to prevail on them to cease from forcing their **Liberal **Agenda on those attending their RCIA classes.

 

[shockerfan]

There are 5 candidates/catechumens, as far as I have been able to determine. There are another 15-20 leaders and instructors, I estimate, although I didn’t count them as I did the catechumens/candidates. Last month when we met, all the others said they were converting either because they were engaged to or had children with a Catholic. I was under the impression, although it may be wrong, that none of the others had any sort of particular religious background or had yet researched/studied Catholicism. They’ve all sat quietly and listened; I’m the only one who has ever spoken up so I don’t really know what they were thinking, if anything. Likely, they were just wondering why someone would get up and walk out in the middle of a session. I would say that most of the group looked a little glazed when I had some questions about the historical-critical method a few weeks ago (that method was the topic of our first two meetings - very informative, but maybe a little advanced for most of our group).

Whatsmyname,
I’m impressed that an RCIA candidate such as yourself came to this site to speak up, question, express frustration, etc., it shows God is calling you to seek the truth. Unfortunately, too many people put their faith on “cruise control”, or are not equipped to challenge or ask questions.

IMHO, the Catholic faith, properly taught, should make everyone uncomfortable. I consider myself a conservative, and would have the same issues you would about the topic of Social Justice, if taught the way your RCIA instructor was teaching it.

For example, helping the poor is not optional (Matthew 25:31-46), however, like others have said, HOW we help the poor is a matter of prudential judgement. I think helping a poor person to find a job is the best way, so I support policies and politicians that work towards a better economy and job growth. Now, that does not mean that voting for a conservative politician means my job is done. There are still people who don’t have the tools to compete for a job, and are hungry right now…they need immediate help (but also does not mean I should be giving money to people on a street corner, who have a high probability of using that money for booze and drugs)…I have to find a real way to help…I can’t turn my back on the situation.

I also don’t find the global warming arguments compelling, and view the vast majority of “solutions” to be nothing other than income redistribution programs. However, that does not mean I should not care about pollution, clean drinking water, etc. We need to be good stewards of the earth…HOW that is accomplished is a matter of prudential judgment.

Our “liberal” friends should also be very uncomfortable with the Catholic faith, since liberal politicians are typically are on the wrong side of every “non-negotiable” issue: abortion, embryonic stem cell research, same sex marriage, and euthanasia.

Seems to me you would be a GREAT Catholic…one who would actually do research on the TRUTH…one who would challenge other Catholics not presenting the teachings of the Church in the proper way…one who would actually stand up for the truth. I hope you continue on your journey to becoming Catholic, the Church founded 2000 years ago by Jesus Christ upon St. Peter, the Church that St Paul called the “pillar and foundation of Truth”…I’ll keep you in my prayers.

 

[Genesis315]

There’s a reason the Church published the first universal Catechism since the one promulgated during the Protestant Reformation: there’s a lot of ignorance and people dogmatizing their own opinions, etc.

As others have mentioned, your views do not appear to be of the kind that are impediments to communion with the Church. For someone on their own initiative to make them as such would be like the Pharisees who Christ accused of closing the door to the Kingdom of Heaven.

That being said, I think your general approach to Catholic teaching in general is a bit upside down. The true Church should not be judged by whether it agrees with you (to be blunt: who made you the standard of truth?). Rather, you should identify which is the true Church and then adjust your own beliefs accordingly. Simply agreeing with Catholic doctrine can be nothing more than a nice coincidence. Faith, however, is believing what God has revealed and what His Church has taught in His name, not because you happen to agree with it, but because of the authority of God.

Of course, you should certainly confirm that something is indeed the doctrine of the universal Church if something sounds fishy or is difficult for you to understand or accept. Just because someone is volunteering at a parish or even ordained doesn’t make them an oracle of perfect truth all the time. As individuals, we’re all human and liable to error–the charism of infallibility belongs to the whole, universal Church throughout the ages, to the bishops united as a body with their head, and to the head of the bishops, the Bishop of Rome, when he teaches the whole Church in a definitive manner.

 

[Rau]

Everything I have stated that I believe IS contrary to Catholic teaching, per the RCIA leader. What I am taught in RCIA is what the church is teaching me, isn’t it? That is church teaching because I am being taught it by a duly designated leader of the church at a required church function and I am not allowed to join the church until I sit there and listen to it and learn it. It isn’t being taught as a belief that is optional or open to interpretation or nuanced, but as fact.

The church says you must recycle. The church says the death penalty is absolutely forbidden. The church says you must buy fair trade goods and here’s the name of a store where you can do so. The church says you must bring your own grocery bags to the store. The church says you must boycott (name of company) because they don’t believe as we do.

What do your churches teach about Social Justice? Do they leave it up to the individual’s interpretation? Do they think it is a complex and nuanced subject, and tell you that Catholic belief on the specifics of it are varied? My church apparently doesn’t think that. They think it is black and white with no room for differing opinions. What am I supposed to do when they hold access to the sacraments hostage to belief in that?

Exactly my point, Rau. Unfortunately when Dissenters or Liberals get in charge of RCIA, they’ll push through their agenda with no compunction of conscience or reason even though it has no place in RCIA. It is sad that there are such people in positions of authority in the Church (and in Congress) but what can we do? We can only try to ask the Pastor (in the case of RCIA) to prevail on them to cease from forcing their **Liberal **Agenda on those attending their RCIA classes.

As long as the “conservative” agenda attracts the same intolerance.

 

[jmcrae]

As long as the “conservative” agenda attracts the same intolerance.

I agree. We need to teach the Catechism - nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Ignatius]

As long as the “conservative” agenda attracts the same intolerance.

I have not seen any “conservative” agenda being propagated, but I have seen, as has the OP, not only in the society at large, but even in Church programs where it does not belong.
RCIA should stick to teaching in line with The Catechism of The Catholic Church not the Gospel of Global Warming or any of the other trickery of the far Left agenda!

 

[IrishAm]

Everything I have stated that I believe IS contrary to Catholic teaching, per the RCIA leader. What I am taught in RCIA is what the church is teaching me, isn’t it? That is church teaching because I am being taught it by a duly designated leader of the church at a required church function and I am not allowed to join the church until I sit there and listen to it and learn it. It isn’t being taught as a belief that is optional or open to interpretation or nuanced, but as fact.

The church says you must recycle. The church says the death penalty is absolutely forbidden. The church says you must buy fair trade goods and here’s the name of a store where you can do so. The church says you must bring your own grocery bags to the store. The church says you must boycott (name of company) because they don’t believe as we do.

What do your churches teach about Social Justice? Do they leave it up to the individual’s interpretation? Do they think it is a complex and nuanced subject, and tell you that Catholic belief on the specifics of it are varied? My church apparently doesn’t think that. They think it is black and white with no room for differing opinions. What am I supposed to do when they hold access to the sacraments hostage to belief in that?

Well, my dear friend, what you were apparently told is just silly. It would be equally absurd if the person was telling you our Holy Mother Church requires you to [fill in whatever the most traditional pious tradition or private revelation that comes to mind]. When I went through the formal conversion process – long before RCIA – when asking about “Mary and the saints” (something that was hard for this Protestant to wrap her head around), I was told “Don’t worry about it; no one deals with them anymore.”

Glad I didn’t let *that *ridiculous statement (from a priest, no less) discourage me from both becoming Catholic and developing deep devotions to Mary and my saintly patrons through the years. Use good sense and let the Holy Spirit guide you. If you can let these comments pass without too much turmoil within, do so. If not, find another program. Bet that leader will say things that bother you as well (and may be eye-rollingly out of line), but perhaps not as much.

God speed.

 

[johnnyc176]

Everything I have stated that I believe IS contrary to Catholic teaching, per the RCIA leader. What I am taught in RCIA is what the church is teaching me, isn’t it? That is church teaching because I am being taught it by a duly designated leader of the church at a required church function and I am not allowed to join the church until I sit there and listen to it and learn it. It isn’t being taught as a belief that is optional or open to interpretation or nuanced, but as fact.

The church says you must recycle. The church says the death penalty is absolutely forbidden. The church says you must buy fair trade goods and here’s the name of a store where you can do so. The church says you must bring your own grocery bags to the store. The church says you must boycott (name of company) because they don’t believe as we do.

What do your churches teach about Social Justice? Do they leave it up to the individual’s interpretation? Do they think it is a complex and nuanced subject, and tell you that Catholic belief on the specifics of it are varied? My church apparently doesn’t think that. They think it is black and white with no room for differing opinions. What am I supposed to do when they hold access to the sacraments hostage to belief in that?

Unfortunately some use this platform to proclaim their particular political agenda instead of proclaiming the teachings of Jesus Christ and His Church, I am curious what the ages are of your instructors?

Rich, middle or poor…all are sinners and need to hear the Truth…

Here is an article you may be interested in…

catholicnewsagency.com/news/true-charity-gives-people-god-not-bread-alone-cardinal-says-52923/

Cardinal Sarah, citing Benedict XVI, told CNA that “charity is very linked with the proclamation of the Gospel, and doing charity is not only giving food, giving material things, but giving God too. Because the main lack of man is not having God.”

 

[ericc]

Are there any politically or economically conservative Catholics here? Do you just ignore what the Catholic Church teaches? How do you reconcile your divergent beliefs?

I walked out of the middle of my RCIA class today and have decided not to become a Catholic. Today’s class topic was Social Justice. I had read the CCC and studied up some on Catholic teaching on social justice since I knew I might have some difficulty with Catholic beliefs on this topic. Today’s teaching at church made me realize I can never profess to believe what Catholic teaching on Social Justice requires.

I believe the climate is changing and has always been changing, but I do not necessarily believe in manmade global warming.

I believe we should be charitable and care for the poor, but I do not believe that more powerful centralized government, fair trade schemes, boycotts of companies that have fallen out of favor, higher taxes, fewer free market principles, etc is always the best way to do this. I do believe it is more charitable to provide training and a job for someone than to provide them with a one-time handout. I don’t believe there is some amount of wage that is “fair” nor have I ever met the individual qualified to set that number. I do believe people should be paid for their work and treated with dignity and respect. I think they should be paid more for more skilled or better or more profitable work. I would rather work to raise everyone up to a higher standard than equalize us by bringing everyone else down to the lowest standard.

I choose to buy products with minimal packaging and recycle when possible, but I do not believe my salvation depends on it.

I believe I should pay my water bill before I buy a new television or iPhone and if I can’t pay my water bill, I shouldn’t buy a new television or iPhone. If I can’t pay my water bill, I believe I should take quick showers and stop watering my lawn, or move to a more affordable area. I believe in personal property rights and the rule of law. I believe in the right of countries to enforce their laws and their borders.

I believe some of us have been given greater natural gifts than others, but I believe we all have a responsibility to do the best we can with what we have been given. And those of us with more have a responsibility to help those who have been given fewer natural gifts, but those with less are not exempt from any responsibility.

I have always believed the death penalty is licit in certain rare circumstances. On reading more about it, I am willing to accept that most countries these days do have the ability to imprison their most dangerous criminals indefinitely and do not need to resort to killing them.

After today’s class, I now know all of my beliefs are in conflict with Catholic Social Justice teaching. I now know that Catholic teaching is wrong, and I’m heartbroken.

You can always asked that RCIA teacher to point you to the relevant Church documents on topics you are not clear about or you have a feeling is just the personal opinions of the teacher. Just say for your personal understanding/reading.

I can 100% tell you global warming/recycling does nothing for the salvation of your soul. Yes we are stewards of the earth but the Church does not tell you HOW to be stewards of the earth. The RCIA teacher may be expressing a personal preference. Emotional response to bad teaching is usually not a good thing to do. The more productive way is to verify the truth of the teaching. You will need to do that again and again as the RCIA covers only the elementary basics (and it seems in your case personal opinions). As you grow in the spiritual life, certain subjects need even more in depth reading/understanding. There is a wealth of materials in the Church for you to go into details if you so wish.

If necessary change teachers. It is such a minor inconvenience compared to the importance of your soul. Your soul is more important than some plastic grocery bags.

Perhaps you would like to share with us the social topics in the CCC which troubles you and let the folks here have a go at it. I have a suspicion some of the folks here actually know more about the faith than some RCIA teachers. I am not one of them definitely and I am still learning since I am a cradle Catholic with poor catechism.

 

[jerrythetrucker]

Are there any politically or economically conservative Catholics here? Do you just ignore what the Catholic Church teaches? How do you reconcile your divergent beliefs?

I walked out of the middle of my RCIA class today and have decided not to become a Catholic. Today’s class topic was Social Justice. I had read the CCC and studied up some on Catholic teaching on social justice since I knew I might have some difficulty with Catholic beliefs on this topic. Today’s teaching at church made me realize I can never profess to believe what Catholic teaching on Social Justice requires.

I believe the climate is changing and has always been changing, but I do not necessarily believe in manmade global warming.

I believe we should be charitable and care for the poor, but I do not believe that more powerful centralized government, fair trade schemes, boycotts of companies that have fallen out of favor, higher taxes, fewer free market principles, etc is always the best way to do this. I do believe it is more charitable to provide training and a job for someone than to provide them with a one-time handout. I don’t believe there is some amount of wage that is “fair” nor have I ever met the individual qualified to set that number. I do believe people should be paid for their work and treated with dignity and respect. I think they should be paid more for more skilled or better or more profitable work. I would rather work to raise everyone up to a higher standard than equalize us by bringing everyone else down to the lowest standard.

I choose to buy products with minimal packaging and recycle when possible, but I do not believe my salvation depends on it.

I believe I should pay my water bill before I buy a new television or iPhone and if I can’t pay my water bill, I shouldn’t buy a new television or iPhone. If I can’t pay my water bill, I believe I should take quick showers and stop watering my lawn, or move to a more affordable area. I believe in personal property rights and the rule of law. I believe in the right of countries to enforce their laws and their borders.

I believe some of us have been given greater natural gifts than others, but I believe we all have a responsibility to do the best we can with what we have been given. And those of us with more have a responsibility to help those who have been given fewer natural gifts, but those with less are not exempt from any responsibility.

I have always believed the death penalty is licit in certain rare circumstances. On reading more about it, I am willing to accept that most countries these days do have the ability to imprison their most dangerous criminals indefinitely and do not need to resort to killing them.

After today’s class, I now know all of my beliefs are in conflict with Catholic Social Justice teaching. I now know that Catholic teaching is wrong, and I’m heartbroken.

 

[jerrythetrucker]

read the book ‘liberalism is a sin’ buy it at the catholic site leafletonline.com
Its about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ not politics. You can be closer to Jesus in the Catholic church than any other denomination. [been there done that].
I feel closer to Jesus and have more tools to get there now than ever before. There are always those that we will oppose politically in all denominations
I will pray for you.

 

[Petaro]

Everything I have stated that I believe IS contrary to Catholic teaching, per the RCIA leader. What I am taught in RCIA is what the church is teaching me, isn’t it? That is church teaching because I am being taught it by a duly designated leader of the church at a required church function and I am not allowed to join the church until I sit there and listen to it and learn it. It isn’t being taught as a belief that is optional or open to interpretation or nuanced, but as fact.

The church says you must recycle. The church says the death penalty is absolutely forbidden. The church says you must buy fair trade goods and here’s the name of a store where you can do so. The church says you must bring your own grocery bags to the store. The church says you must boycott (name of company) because they don’t believe as we do.

What do your churches teach about Social Justice? Do they leave it up to the individual’s interpretation? Do they think it is a complex and nuanced subject, and tell you that Catholic belief on the specifics of it are varied? My church apparently doesn’t think that. They think it is black and white with no room for differing opinions. What am I supposed to do when they hold access to the sacraments hostage to belief in that?

I think you have been misinformed by the RCIA leader. This is the problem of allowing individuals poorly trained in Church doctrine to run these parish classes. It would appear that they are transposing their own politics into what they believe the Church teaches.
Find another class rather than leaving the road you have sought to follow.
The Church does not teach that climate change is man made. It does not teach that capital punishment is forbidden. It has no teaching on recycling grocery bags.
You have found the sad flaw in the RCIA system, that is reflected in education throughout the world especially in tertiary institutions. Read the official catechism for the correct slant on the doctrine and some of the Encyclicals on Social Justice for a less jaundiced view of Church teachings.