I have had 3 c sections

[flymomma1]

I delivered my last child at Providence which is a Catholic hospital and my doctor told me that I could have write a letter to the sisters of Providence and get a dispensation to get a tubal ligation becuase have a 4th c section could be a medical risk. Do you think it would be ok for me to use birth control now even though I didn’t get the tubal?

 

[LilyM]

Sisters, be they nuns or nurses, cannot legitimately permit you to get a tubal - nor could any priest or bishop or indeed the Pope himself. It’s a sin - you can’t legitimately get permission from anyone to sin in this way, any more than you could legitimately get permission to worship false gods, or rob banks.

You cannot use artificial birth control either. What you can do is learn NFP and/or use fertility/ovulation tests from the pharmacist (similar to pregnancy tests) to tell you when you are fertile, and avoid sex at those times (every bit as successful as any method of artificial birth control)

 

[1ke]

I delivered my last child at Providence which is a Catholic hospital and my doctor told me that I could have write a letter to the sisters of Providence and get a dispensation to get a tubal ligation becuase have a 4th c section could be a medical risk. Do you think it would be ok for me to use birth control now even though I didn’t get the tubal?

There is *no such thing *as a dispensation for a tubal ligation.

Sterilization is ALWAYS a grave sin against the Sixth Commandment. It is never a moral option when you need to avoid pregnancy. That is wonderful that you did not get one.

If you have a just reason-- which harm to your uterus certainly can be-- you can use NFP to avoid pregnancy. Contraception is **never **a moral way of avoiding conception. If you have not already learned a method of natural family planning, go to your diocesan website and get information on classes. There are also a number of websites you can check out such as www.ccli.org, www.nfpandmore.com, www.creightonmodel.com.

 

[Seatuck]

I delivered my last child at Providence which is a Catholic hospital and my doctor told me that I could have write a letter to the sisters of Providence and get a dispensation to get a tubal ligation becuase have a 4th c section could be a medical risk. Do you think it would be ok for me to use birth control now even though I didn’t get the tubal?

I’m sorry that you were given such wrong advice.
We are not permitted to get sterilized with the intent to prevent the conception of a child . We are not permitted to use artificial contraception to prevent the conception of a child either.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

**
**2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.157 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:158 **
**Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.159 ****2399 The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception). **

---

Humana Vitae-

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

What you want to do is learn a method of NFP.

 

[MarkBrown]

My wife had her first c-section 15 years ago.
her 2nd 13 years ago
her 3rd 10 years ago
her 4th 5 years ago
her 5th 3 years ago.

Starting with number 2 the doctors started the doom and gloom. They shutup after number 4.

Really investigate what the doctor tells you. Get second and third opinions. I worked for a doctor for a short period of time and have friends who are doctors. Like everyone else they have agendas, we had one specialists tell us we should have been limited by the authorities to 2 children. Gave the usual stupid liberal reasons for small families.

Blessings

 

[allhers]

A dispensation from the Nuns? Now thats really a new one.


Oh brother, these people will try anything won’t they? Listen to the advice you’ve already been given, its all good (on the forum here, not from that Doctor.)

…and to answer your question…NO. Read up on the info you’ve been given.

 

[Wowbagger]

I’m sorry; no, you cannot licitly do so, and, in the long run, it could only make you unhappy (in this life or perhaps the next).

My heart goes out to you for your troubles.

 

[Jermosh]

Sterilization is ALWAYS a grave sin against the Sixth Commandment. It is never a moral option when you need to avoid pregnancy. That is wonderful that you did not get one.

How is sterilization considered Adultry?

 

[LilyM]

How is sterilization considered Adultry?

I think that poster was thinking of the commandment against murder, not adultery. Contraception is denying life to children whom God has ordained should be given life - murder of a sort.

 

[Jermosh]

I think that poster was thinking of the commandment against murder, not adultery. Contraception is denying life to children whom God has ordained should be given life - murder of a sort.

I assumed it was the Catholic version. But if that is the case, then NFP is the same exact thing, or not getting married at all could be as well. Attempting to prove a negative is impossible. I am not saying that sterilization is right if used for unjust reasons, I am just not sure how it could be against any of the Commandments.

 

[Joe_5859]

I think that poster was thinking of the commandment against murder, not adultery. Contraception is denying life to children whom God has ordained should be given life - murder of a sort.

I assumed it was the Catholic version. But if that is the case, then NFP is the same exact thing, or not getting married at all could be as well. Attempting to prove a negative is impossible. I am not saying that sterilization is right if used for unjust reasons, I am just not sure how it could be against any of the Commandments.

I think the poster was just going by what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says. In the Catechism, contraception is mentioned under the section on the Sixth Commandment as something that goes against the fecundity of marriage (See CCC 2370). Abortion and “contraception” that works as an abortifacient goes against the Fifth Commandment. Contraception and sterilization goes against the Sixth Commandment.

I recommend reading this section of the CCC in it’s entirety if you wish to understand why and how sterilization breaks the Commandments. I would also recommend John Paul II’s Theology of the Body, in particular the section "Humanae Vitae. In this section, the Audience on Faithfulness to the Divine Plan in the Transmission of Life is probably the most pertinent to this topic.

 

[1ke]

How is sterilization considered Adultry?

The Sixth Commandment is the commandment against **all **sexual sin-- sins against chastity and sins against marriage. It is not merely a commandment against sexual activity with a married person or with someone not your spouse. “Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery” is shorthand. This is true of all the Commandments.

I recommend the Catechism section which discusses **ALL **sins against chastity:

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

See especially paragraphs 2368-2372 and 2399.

 

[1ke]

I think that poster was thinking of the commandment against murder, not adultery. Contraception is denying life to children whom God has ordained should be given life - murder of a sort.

No. I meant the Sixth Commandment.

Contraception and sterlization are not sins against the Fifth Commandment.

 

[1ke]

I assumed it was the Catholic version. But if that is the case, then NFP is the same exact thing, or not getting married at all could be as well. Attempting to prove a negative is impossible. I am not saying that sterilization is right if used for unjust reasons, I am just not sure how it could be against any of the Commandments.

I encourage you to read the Catechism and the other book suggestions.

Chastity in our state of life is not a violation of the Sixth Commandment. It is living out the Sixth Commandment.

 

[armywife]

I delivered my last child at Providence which is a Catholic hospital and my doctor told me that I could have write a letter to the sisters of Providence and get a dispensation to get a tubal ligation becuase have a 4th c section could be a medical risk. Do you think it would be ok for me to use birth control now even though I didn’t get the tubal?

Wow, I know this is your first post and I really don’t mean to laugh but this has to be the biggest “hum dinger” I have ever heard. Hopefully the Dr. wasn’t Catholic and didn’t know what he was talking about.

 

[Jermosh]

The Sixth Commandment is the commandment against **all **sexual sin-- sins against chastity and sins against marriage. It is not merely a commandment against sexual activity with a married person or with someone not your spouse. “Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery” is shorthand. This is true of all the Commandments.

I recommend the Catechism section which discusses **ALL **sins against chastity:

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

See especially paragraphs 2368-2372 and 2399.

I have read and studied these before. There is no mention of sterilisation in both the sections that are stating specific offenses. It does speak of the moral need and way to use BC, but it does not call it a sin against Chasity or Marriage.

Offenses against chastity 2351-2356
OFFENSES AGAINST THE DIGNITY OF MARRIAGE 2380-2391

Thanks for your clarification though.

 

[Joe_5859]

I have read and studied these before. There is no mention of sterilisation in both the sections that are stating specific offenses. It does speak of the moral need and way to use BC, but it does not call it a sin against Chasity or Marriage.

Offenses against chastity 2351-2356
OFFENSES AGAINST THE DIGNITY OF MARRIAGE 2380-2391

Thanks for your clarification though.

CCC 2399 The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).



The Catechism never intends to give an exhaustive list of each and every violation of every Commandment. It gives the principles by which we can determine if a specific act violates a Commandment and the moral law.

The CCC does gives examples sometimes (as it does in the above CCC 2399), but it doesn’t give every example. It just so happens that, this time, it does mention direct sterilization and contraception as examples, but it is clear from the context that these are not the only two examples.

 

[Jermosh]

CCC 2399 The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).



The Catechism never intends to give an exhaustive list of each and every violation of every Commandment. It gives the principles by which we can determine if a specific act violates a Commandment and the moral law.

The CCC does gives examples sometimes (as it does in the above CCC 2399), but it doesn’t give every example. It just so happens that, this time, it does mention direct sterilization and contraception as examples, but it is clear from the context that these are not the only two examples.

Disagree. If the Church meant them to a direct offence against Marriage or Chasity it would have labeled them as such.

 

[Joe_5859]

Disagree. If the Church meant them to a direct offence against Marriage or Chasity it would have labeled them as such.

I’m not sure what you disagree with. The Catechism specifically mentions both sterilization and contraception in the section on the Sixth Commandment as morally unacceptable. Do you disagree that this means that these are sins against chastity and Marriage (and think that they are sins against something else)? Or do you disagree that the Catechism does not give an exhaustive list of every offense against every Commandment (and thus, if something is not explicitly stated and explicitly linked to a specific Commadnment, it must therefore be acceptable)?

 

[Jermosh]

I’m not sure what you disagree with. The Catechism specifically mentions both sterilization and contraception in the section on the Sixth Commandment as morally unacceptable. Do you disagree that this means that these are sins against chastity and Marriage (and think that they are sins against something else)? Or do you disagree that the Catechism does not give an exhaustive list of every offense against every Commandment (and thus, if something is not explicitly stated and explicitly linked to a specific Commadnment, it must therefore be acceptable)?

I believe they are sins against human nature, not against Adultry. Adultry is the worse of all sins IMHO.