why your god ? Why not Allah, why not Thor ?
I did not ask to be born and I did not ask to have ‘original sin’
See above.
Have Allah or Thor had their mothers appear to Rwandan schoolchildren and predict a “river of blood” if people do not repent, pray the Rosary and Chaplet of Seven Sorrows, etc. in a way verifiable enough to be reported by the New York Times? Or when a priest doubted Allah or Thor, did the communion turn into actual flesh in 8th century AD and remain flesh until this day so it could be analyzed by Dr. Linoli, Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy and be published in a medical journal archived by a service of the U.S. Natinonal Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health?You have your answer with the US Air Miracle … think on it. Everyone was very quiet … he heard some people sobbing or praying. The experience and decision making, knowledge and compassion, of the pilot who was last to leave the airship details. The doctor to be on board. The orderly debarkation and the survival of 150 people. Think about it and look at the crucified Christ.
I wonder why some people who do not believe, keep telling us who do believe, that they don’t believe.
**
Yeah, no one should have to keep throwing themselves up against a brick wall.**
I wonder why some people who do not believe, keep telling us who do believe, that they don’t believe.
When they insist not to believe - who cares?
OK – we know they don’t believe in God – so what?
Yes ok - why don’t you then believe in any “God” - why not in Mickey Mouse? Or believe in nothing but the Irish Stew (somet I hate by the way).
Why not quarrel instead about the best making of Irish Stew then?
I can’t see the slightest sense in arguing about an atheists conviction - because he will see himself one might be very near day.
What then? Again not our problem, but theirs
I was ‘made’ to go to ‘midnight mass’ (actually a vigil mass at 8pm but its irrelavant!) and I kinda got ticked off. Maybe it was just the mostly terrible singing I dont know but it got me thinking.
6 & 1/2 months ago I was diagnosed with a serious long term illness and now I get physically stressed while at mass. I initally after coming out from hadn’t the energy to go - walking there stand up sit down kneeling and so forth. However I have only been to mass about 3 times and at my GF (Anglican) church about 3 times when I was visiting for a weekend.
I dont have the interest to go. When I’m there I get annoyed at stupid things like communion in the hand, women with no headcoverings (rule is still in effect), the hypocracy of people who only go to mass following the ‘Number of masses in a given year = 2 + F + B + M’ formula of Catholicsm. The sort of wishy washyness that priests are forced to conted with. I get annoyed at the idea that there are people who take communion and dont realise what it/is supposed to mean(s). I think I may be envious of thier ignorance. But this problem and my crumbling religon has began when I went to uni. and due to increased contct with protestants - usually of the CU/Evangelical type and never having realsied the different branches of Chrsitianity I had to educate myself so I decided to learn more about the faith in terms of apologetics.
I went to a couple of Latin masses and stuff too (I’d gone to a couple when I was younger before aswell). Yet I disagree with the extreme ‘be afraid of the priest’, old style, ‘uber traditional’ Catholicism as well as the neo-evangelical shenanigans of Y2K type ‘we’re so happy all the time’ rubbish.
I now know more of the church teachings than your average Irish Catholic and I find I disagree with some of them [initally purgatory, then original sin, then immaculate conception, then assumption, then transubstantiaton.] so find it pointless to go to mass as mentioned. However I have a slight worry about easter as then it is crunch time when I am supposed to get communion (minimum once per year near easter) but I cannot as its sacreligious to get it if in mortal sin (most probably due to not going to mass) or if I dont belive in transubstantiaon (which I dont).
There have been times (before I got ill) when I have lost sleep worrying about these things and my religon as it was that important to me but I dont anymore. I have never seemed to get sastifactorty answers regardless of what priests I have asked.
My next concern is that my girlfriend, who is wonderful and who I want to marry - we’ve talked about it lots, is an Anglican though her church is quite ‘low’ high anglican is more akin to tradtiional catholicm] so are more relaxed and non-judgemental yet a bit ‘evangelicaly’ with a lot of singing and cell groups and so forth. She is quite religous and if we got married (very real possibility) I worry about the religious differnces being problematic. However at the moment I dont agree with protestantism as to me to accept the bible means that one would have to accept the RC councils that state its infallible/the books are correct. Yet as far as I can fathom the only reason to belive the RCC is right is because of the bible says that Jesus founded it so it gets circular but either way seems to preculde protestantism which is based on a book that has no backup as to where it came from [not dissing protestanism just saying it like how it seems to me and where my confusion lies.]
Also the whole premise of god killing his son to save us from his wrath which he damned us to because some guy ate an apple/pomegranite 6000 years ago seems a bit thin at the moment. [comes back to original sin and my difficulty in the RC teaching of it] I have little faith in God but none in the concept of his son anymore. My GF thinks that maybe I was caught up in the rules and didnt have a relationship wiht god. I had a relationship wiht god, just probably not his son even though he’s all the one which probably means that I am confused about the trinity too.
I am also still angry at God for me being ill though that now seems a little irrational as its probably all the dioxins in the air from the disasterously managed dump about 5 miles from where I live.I’ve kind of adjusted to having to take multiple daily injections and worrying about going blind in the future.
My faith was important to me… I used to read at Mass, and say the rosary at funerals and do all the little ‘extras’ in catholicsim. Now its all dead to me. I have no real regard for the church but I respect it as having done some good in the world. Yet I have many criticisms of it too such as the lack of a christian community attatched to catholcsm when compared to protestant churches.
As for alternatives I find islam and judaism based on books which to me means I could base a religion on lord of the rings or dune and it would be equally as valid. All sorts of Paganism sounds like someone with an over active imagination has read dungeons and dragons and mixes up fantasy and reality. Buddhism isn’t technically a religon as it has no deity. Most other religons then seem more cultural. Non-theistic satanism I disagree with in terms of logic and morals so that’s out.
I realise I am very confused and this mightn’t make much sense but has anyone else been here and if so would they have advice? I would appreciate if people didn’t say ‘just go to mass it will all come back’ as that is essentially saying ‘just accept it and dont worry about all these issues that are clearly important to you’ equally I have been attempting to pray a little but to no avail.
The question is valid but if a person is sincere about seeking to know the truth, no matter where it leads, they’ll ultimately be led to the God of Christianity. I don’t always know about answered prayer-people pray for a variety of things and sometimes those prayers are answered dramatically and sometimes not. And the bible tells us that the rain falls on the good and bad alike. I do believe that when God answers prayer it always has to do with forwarding His plan of salvation/advancing His kingdom in some way-of drawing people to Him rather than simply to, say, heal someone who’s going to end up dying anyway like we all do or grant then money or power or fame like some divine sugar daddy.
You need to first answer the question for yourself whether you’d prefer not to have been born-otherwise you pretty well agree with God that it wasn’t such a bad idea for you to* be*, with or without original sin. And you need to settle the question as to whether or not original sin is a valid explanation for evil in the world- whether or not it exists first of all, if it’s observable in ourselves and/or the world- rather than whether or not it should exist.
I consider it a possible explination though I dont agree with it. I just think free will is abusable and there is little incentive for some people to behave in a moral way.
Joe,
Well, that wasn’t my point. He can knock us off our horse but faith usually comes by our asking, seeking, and knocking. I have no way of knowing if that’s what you’re doing here-you may not know yourself-or on the other hand if, for whatever reason, you’re adamantly opposed to the truth we espouse-and you may not know that for sure either. In any case we’re all opposed to it in one way or the other before we come to believe -I pretty much preferred being opposed to the things of God-and even afterward it’s not a static done deal-we’re always struggling with faith and actually through that struggle should be continuing to grow in the faith and knowledge of Him. It’s a good fight and worth it. I hope and I’ll pray you can overcome whatever reasons you have for unbelief. Life’s awfully meaningless without God.
Well this is it. The more I tried to learn about my faith the less I understood so the more I questioned. As a result of this I now have not faith in Catholicsm left.
Did you read about the miracles and Marian apparitions verified by scientific journals and the New York Times, Chicago Daily Tribune, and Los Angeles Times? I believe one was also analyzed by NASA scientists?
my struggle with faith is a little different. I absolutely am convinced that Catholicism is the most authentic and original form of Christianity. My problem (occasionally) is with Christanity itself.
That’s interesting you say that, it’s the exact opposite of what my experience has been.
His miracles are all around, it’s just whether or not we accept them as miracles or just coincidence or natural occurrences. It’s not merely superstition, either. If God showed himself to us all clearly and without leaving any doubt to his existence, there would be no need for faith alone. Kind of seems like we should say, well why not, it would save a lot of heartache? Then the question would be how do you shine when everywhere is light? Does that make a case for the CC? I don’t think so, honestly. Neither do Marian visions or reciting endless “Hail Marys” IMO.
Please might you help me to understand. While I try to deeply respect your viewpoint and your difference of opinion shaped by different knowledge and the different and worthy person that God created you and I to be, I don’t understand how Marian apparitions verified by the New York Times and whose truth has been corroborated by the Los Angeles Times, Chicago Daily Tribune, and New York Times do not make a case for the Roman Catholic Church. What other Church can lay such a claim to the Rosary or Chaplet of Seven Sorrows or such a connection with the Marian visions that Mary and the seers recognizes the actions of the priests, the importance of Catholic organizations such as Legion of Mary and the connection with sin.
Maybe I am missing something intrinsically obvious about why these world-wide verified apparitions do not make a case for the Catholic Church. 
Oh, sorry. I agree we should be respectful of each others opinions. I just see that people like Irishjoe who are very hardened in their hearts already, and do not see benefit in any sort of prayer to gain faith, and would have a scientific explanation for any miracle, are not going to be particularly welcoming of Marian prayers and visions. It is probably the most commonly used insult of the catholic Church that we are supposed to be Mary worshipers, (already discussed and disproved ad nausea on countless other threads) even though it’s not true, (well, not officially). The press is not particularly welcomed as the absolute truth either. If you’ve ever been interviewed or on the scene (I have a few times) by reporters, then watched the final product as it goes by on the evening news or is printed in the paper, well, you’d know how little truth there is to anything they say. I’m not trying to say I don’t believe in Marian visions or miracles, I just don’t see how this helps people struggling with their faith. No offense, OK?Please might you help me to understand. While I try to deeply respect your viewpoint and your difference of opinion shaped by different knowledge and the different and worthy person that God created you and I to be, I don’t understand how Marian apparitions verified by the New York Times and whose truth has been corroborated by the Los Angeles Times, Chicago Daily Tribune, and New York Times do not make a case for the Roman Catholic Church. What other Church can lay such a claim to the Rosary or Chaplet of Seven Sorrows or such a connection with the Marian visions that Mary and the seers recognizes the actions of the priests, the importance of Catholic organizations such as Legion of Mary and the connection with sin.
How much more should God do than a world-wide verified Marian apparition? Maybe to write a sign in the sky saying, I exist and I am the God of the Catholic Church that is somehow readable in every language!
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.
For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!
O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee and those who do not!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *