Yet by the same token if they are part of a church even an "independent’ church they are following somebody! Surely they read religious books, look at evangelists on TV, hear Christian music on the radio. Even the Bibles they read were translated by some one or some group. Also if you were to ask them a question they couldn’t answer, 9 times out of 10, they would respond with “I’ll have to go ask my pastor.” (Been there, done that) Glenn Lego
Well said, ahimsaman.
How true, how true.
What can I say? You’ve said it all.
We agree on this…absolutely.
Correct. Nor must we come to Him through
Now, reen12, I thought you of all people would not fall for this one. Has Christ only been the mediator since the Incarnation? Remember, God does not change. Christ has always been the mediator between God and man. God created the world through the Word and that is how we go back to Him, through the Word (now incarnate). Now, if we look at the OT Jewish religion we clearly see the priests as mediators–in fact God commanded them to be. Read Leviticus
.Alright, already!Now, reen12, I thought you of all people would not fall for this one. Has Christ only been the mediator since the Incarnation? Remember, God does not change. Christ has always been the mediator between God and man. God created the world through the Word and that is how we go back to Him, through the Word (now incarnate). Now, if we look at the OT Jewish religion we clearly see the priests as mediators–in fact God commanded them to be. Read Leviticus
See, I keep losing sight of the fact thatquote: Genesis315
Hmmmm. [As I quickly try to re-shuffle my position…]
*
Dear Genesis315,
quote: Genesis315
Alright, already! See, I keep losing sight of the fact that
if Jesus is Messiah * then He
is* the Word, and
quote:Genesis315
quote: Genesis315
Hmmmm. [As I quickly try to re-shuffle my position…]
That’s the trouble with you Catholics…you will insist on
keeping our eyes on the facts.
God bless your heart, Genesis315.
Maureen*
Hahaha, well, somebody’s got to keep you in line.I had just finished Leviticus so this was fresh in my mind (I’m trying to go cover to cover again, I just don’t sit down and read Leviticus for fun:yawn: ) . Plus, I know you see a lot of Truth in the Jewish religion as of course any good Catholic will too.
But you’re saying that God left every man (or woman) in charge of himself (or herself)? This would be chaos. In Romans 13, the Bible asserts that God has instituted earthly governments for our good, to protect us from evil-doers. Now, if God sets up authority for earthly matters, doesn’t it follow that he would certainly set up an authority for spiritual matters? This is especially true if that authority has the gift of the Holy Spirit, i.e., they are not simply espousing their own human opinions, but rather the wisdom of God.
**
]No, not chaos. He endowed His creation with intelligence and a moral integrity. Earthly governments are rather imperfect, don’t you think? They are man-made. Look at capitalism and communism for example. Are they God-made or man-made? They are imperfect systems setup by imperfect people.
bengal_fan said:“I have no religion, I just follow Jesus and His Word”
oh, then you must believe in the real presence, the papacy, apostolic sucession, the one visible church, the inerrancy of scripture, the infallibility of the magesterium (personified in the pope in matters of faith and morals)…in other words, you must be catholic. then why aren’t you obeying Christ and becoming a part of His body?
i guess that would be my response to a statement like that.
I would have chosen the word “triumphalistic” rather than
Oooo a cool new word you’ve taught me. Now instead of calling myself a simple Ultramontanist, I’ll now call myself a Triumphalistic Ultramontanist. Or does Ultramontane Triumphalist sound better?
It’s more euphonious.
Thanks Genesis315. I appreciate your knowledgeable response and your Christlike attitude. I will be considering your reply. God bless.Or Jack Chick from reading the rest of your post. Let’s see if we can clear some things up for ya
You need to learn the difference between “latria” and “dulia” and “hyperdulia.”
The worship due only to God is latria, and He’s the only one who gets it. We give Mary hyperdulia, the highest form of veneration due to created beings. Sure, do some Catholics worhip Mary as God? Probably, but they are heretics.
This is false. Some Catholics are superstitious about scapulars, but they are heretics. No one says a relic can save you that I’ve ever heard. If they do, they are heretics. Now, relics can have graces and such attached to them. In Scripture we see a cloth from St. Paul healing people. The same with the bones of some OT prophet (Elisha I think, but I could be wrong). Likewise, in Numbers people look at a bronze snake and are protected.
As for the Eucharist, it is NOT a thing. It IS Christ. See John 6 to see how eating His flesh is related to salvation. As St. paul says, those who do not dsisecern the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist, eat and drink condemnation on themselves.
Again, superstition. However, saints can intercede for anything. I don’t see what’s wrong to ask someone to pray that you find something you have lost.
Through water and Sprirt. The CA homepage has a good tract on this.
Agreed.
You need to have faith in Him and obey His commands.
Again, kind of. It is the fulfillment of the OT. Jesus did not abolish, the old religion, He fulfilled it. Christianity is the same religion as OT Judaism–same God, same prophets, same Messiah (except he’s come now). The modern Jews by rejecting Christ have strayed from the Truth.
Check out the Prophecy in Malachi 1:10-11. Is this a false prophecy? Of course not. So where is the pure oblation being offered up everywhere from sun up to sundown by Gentiles after the closing of the temple? Why, the Catholic Mass of course.
So, some heretical Catholics keep you from the true faith?? That’s weak.
No rituals don’t. But loving Christ means obeying His commands and taking part in the Sacraments He Himself instituted.
You’ll have a hard time proving this statement. It’s a doctrine of men invented in the 1500s. Scripture doesn’t even support “Bible only.”
Ummm, yeah it does. We see the Apostles quickly replacing Judas. Why bother if there was no succession?
Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail.
The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.
This is in Scripture.
Obviously not thoroughly enough. You like the Eunach in Acts (and the rest of us) need a teacher to help explain it.
Oh, i definitely agree here.
If you have any more questions on specific doctrines, feel free to start some threads. People here can be great helps