I Have Questions About Our Lady!

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Angel7

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Can someone help me with these questions. answer as many as possible please.
  1. What would have happened If Our Lady said No, She would not be The Mother of God?
  2. Would there continue to be Immaculate women until one of them said Yes?
  3. If Our Lady did say No. Would She still be Immaculate?
  4. If so, what would The Church have said if there was more than one immaculate woman?
These are some hard questions.

May The Lord Our God Bless You All!
 
Can someone help me with these questions. answer as many as possible please.
  1. What would have happened If Our Lady said No, She would not be The Mother of God?
  2. Would there continue to be Immaculate women until one of them said Yes?
  3. If Our Lady did say No. Would She still be Immaculate?
  4. If so, what would The Church have said if there was more than one immaculate woman?
These are some hard questions.

May The Lord Our God Bless You All!
Our Lady was conceived immaculately because she would say “yes” and be the vessel from which the Savior would enter the world. She was not immaculately conceived in the hopes that she would choose to be the Mother of God. She was envisioned from the Garden of Eden and because she would say “yes”, she was conceived immaculately.

So, she would not have said “no”. Neither would we have to worry about what would happen if she suffered a miscarriage while carrying the Savior, or that Christ would decide not to fulfill his mission. These are all impossibilities under the divine order and the promise of scripture.

Mary was the fulfillment of scripture just as Christ was. She was God’s most perfect human creature. So the speculation on the consequences of her refusal is pointless.
 
Isn’t that against Free Will?
Our Lady did have a choice right?
 
This is one of those mysteries we about which may never know the answer. Having said that, the Saints I have read who have written about Mary have said that she had the free choice to say no, but if she had Jesus would not have been born.

The next question is what would have happened if Mary had said no and Jesus had not been born. Would God have done as you suggest, Angel7 or would he have found another way to save us through his Son–an non-incarnational way? After all Mary was the Second Eve. So, like the first Eve she was deciding the fate of mankind, in a sense, by her decision. I say in a sense because God is always above our decisions and can do whatever he pleases, but he let Adam and Eve make their decision and let them face the consequences. I cannot see why he wouldn’t have done the same with Mary’s decision.

We can never really know the answer to the “what if” questions of this type. God desired to save us, and so would probably have found another way, but he may have let us go on as we were until eternity, making animal sacrifices and hoping for the best. That’s not very likely, I don’t believe, but it’s a possibility given that God abides by our decisions, good or bad. It means Mary had an awesome responsibility, which is probably why she felt so overwhelmed when Gabriel announced the Incarnation.
 
Isn’t that against Free Will?
Our Lady did have a choice right?
Yes, she had a choice. However, because God exists at all times and outside of time, he has perfect knowledge of not only the past and present but also the future. He therefore knows in advance they choices people will make and how they will exercise their free will. You cannot surprise God.
 
  1. What would have happened If Our Lady said No, She would not be The Mother of God?
  2. Would there continue to be Immaculate women until one of them said Yes?
  3. If Our Lady did say No. Would She still be Immaculate?
  4. If so, what would The Church have said if there was more than one immaculate woman?
  1. God would have looked for someone else.
  2. Probably, but not necessarily. It was not necessary that the woman through whom the second person of the trinity should incarnate himself be immaculate. Keep in mind that just about every aspect of the incarnation was ordained by the will of God and does not arise from necessity.
  3. Since the immaculate conception was for the sake of the incarnation in the first place, there would not have been a rationale for it if Mary was going to say No. Hence she would not have been immaculately conceived.
  4. Had there been more than one immaculate woman, I suppose the Church would have said that God provides for the best even if we choose not to cooperate.
 
Yes, she had a choice. However, because God exists at all times and outside of time, he has perfect knowledge of not only the past and present but also the future. He therefore knows in advance they choices people will make and how they will exercise their free will. You cannot surprise God.
I don’t understand this arguement.
This is like saying we all follow a destiny.
Which is contrary to Free Will right?
Because then we aren’t really choosing anything, but following a predetermined path.
 
I don’t understand this arguement.
This is like saying we all follow a destiny.
Which is contrary to Free Will right?
Because then we aren’t really choosing anything, but following a predetermined path.
Not so. Instead of writing out a long explanation, let me give you, for starters, St. Augustine, beginning from the line I’ve highlighted for you here.
 
=Angel7;6766152]Can someone help me with these questions. answer as many as possible please.
  1. What would have happened If Our Lady said No, She would not be The Mother of God?
This is a mystery of our faith. God who is all-knowing knew without effecting Mary’s freewill that she woulf say “yes.”
  1. Would there continue to be Immaculate women until one of them said Yes?
This then by default becomes a nonsensical question.:rolleyes:
  1. If Our Lady did say No. Would She still be Immaculate?
NO, the graces and favors granted Mary steem from the Merits of Her Son Jesus.
  1. If so, what would The Church have said if there was more than one immaculate woman?
A virtual impossibility. 😉

Love and prayers,

These are some hard questions.

May The Lord Our God Bless You All!
 
I don’t understand this arguement.
This is like saying we all follow a destiny.
Which is contrary to Free Will right?
Because then we aren’t really choosing anything, but following a predetermined path.
Mark gave a good reference. The simple answer is that God knew she would say yes. She was conceived without original sin for the purpose of bearing the Savior. Since she was without sin, she would not have refused the majesty of the Creator, nor doubted her worthiness by doubting His plan. She knew the old testament and knew what she was being asked to do. Her only question was “how?” and when the angel told her, she offered her simple reply “Fiat!” She had perfect obedience. Technically, she wasn’t asked “will you do this” and God would not have to ask someone else because it was impossible for her to refuse. Not because she didn’t have free will, but because she was the model of obedience and grace.

You might as well as ask “what if she got run over by a donkey … what would God do then?”.
 
Mark gave a good reference. The simple answer is that God knew she would say yes. She was conceived without original sin for the purpose of bearing the Savior. Since she was without sin, she would not have refused the majesty of the Creator, nor doubted her worthiness by doubting His plan. She knew the old testament and knew what she was being asked to do. Her only question was “how?” and when the angel told her, she offered her simple reply “Fiat!” She had perfect obedience. Technically, she wasn’t asked “will you do this” and God would not have to ask someone else because it was impossible for her to refuse. Not because she didn’t have free will, but because she was the model of obedience and grace.

You might as well as ask “what if she got run over by a donkey … what would God do then?”.
The discussion merits a little more caution in throwing around the word “impossible.” It’s possible for Pope Benedict to murder Msgr Marini at his next public Mass, in the sense that he has free will. It’s only “impossible” in the non-theological, non-philosophical sense in which someone like him would just never do something like that. One claim denies free will; the other is just an observation that holy, pious people (virtually) never do abominable, evil crimes. Philosophically, we cannot both acknowledge that Mary made her choice of her own free will, and at the same time hold that, at that moment, it was impossible for her to choose otherwise.

We should also be aware of the risk in diminishing Mary’s freely given assent by postulating that she somehow had the ability to grasp God’s entire plan, and that, comprehending such, only a moron could have said no. Luke tells us that Mary was “greatly troubled” and asked “How can this be?” In all likelihood she was maybe 15 years old. There’s simply no basis to believe that, in that brief (as far as we know) exchange with the angel, she came to a perfect or even very well formed idea of God’s plan. In fact, it’s in that sense that Mary is one of the best models for us: she didn’t know what God had in store for her, or how he would do it, but she put her trust in him and willingly gave herself over to him.
 
As hard as it is for us to comprehend, God has knowledge of all things. As said here, He exists outside of time - all things are present to Him immediately at one and the same moment (or what we would call “moment” - moment refers to time and God is outside of time).

Think of Jesus and Peter - He said he would deny him three times this very night. Peter disbelieved, but he did deny Him three times. Was Peter forced to deny Jesus by God, to prove God right? No. Peter exercised his free will, and with his own free will denied Jesus. Yet God knew he would do it.

Here it is: God knows everything you will ever think or do. Revelation speaks of those written in the book of life. God knows who of us will choose His gift of salvation, and who will not. He knows who might spend many years in sin, but return seeking His mercy. And all of this is of our own free will. We are free to choose, but He knows what we will choose.

As someone here said, you cannot surprise God.

God bless you!
 
She was envisioned from the Garden of Eden
This statement is incorrect. Mary and her fiat were envisioned long before the dawn of time. In the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, Pope Pius IX stated, “From the very beginning, and before time began, the Eternal Father chose and prepared for His only-begotten Son a Mother in whom theSon of God would become incarnate and from whom, in the blessed fullness of time, He would be born into this world. And indeed it was wholly fitting that so wonderful a mother should be ever resplendent with the glory of most sublime holiness and so completely free from the taint of original sin that she would triumph utterly over the ancient serpent. To her did the Father will to give His only-begotten Son - the Son Whom, equal to the Father and begotten by Him, the Father loves from His heart - and to give this Son in such a way that He would be the one and the same common Son of God the Father and of the Blessed Virgin Mary. It was she whom the Son Himself chose to make His mother.”
 
As hard as it is for us to comprehend, God has knowledge of all things. As said here, He exists outside of time - all things are present to Him immediately at one and the same moment (or what we would call “moment” - moment refers to time and God is outside of time).

Think of Jesus and Peter - He said he would deny him three times this very night. Peter disbelieved, but he did deny Him three times. Was Peter forced to deny Jesus by God, to prove God right? No. Peter exercised his free will, and with his own free will denied Jesus. Yet God knew he would do it.

Here it is: God knows everything you will ever think or do. Revelation speaks of those written in the book of life. God knows who of us will choose His gift of salvation, and who will not. He knows who might spend many years in sin, but return seeking His mercy. And all of this is of our own free will. We are free to choose, but He knows what we will choose.

As someone here said, you cannot surprise God.

God bless you!
We love surprises, sometimes I wonder if God doesn’t like surprises too. I wonder if occasionally He is surprised by his frail creature man. I wonder if He is surprised sometimes by the explosion of a nova. I wonder if His love for His creation is born out of a love of surprises.

I love surprises and I am continually surprised by God’s love for us and for the surprise of Mary’s gift to us in her Son Jesus.
 
=giuseppeTO;6768238]Mark gave a good reference. The simple answer is that God knew she would say yes. She was conceived without original sin for the purpose of bearing the Savior. Since she was without sin, she would not have refused the majesty of the Creator, nor doubted her worthiness by doubting His plan. She knew the old testament and knew what she was being asked to do. Her only question was “how?” and when the angel told her, she offered her simple reply “Fiat!” She had perfect obedience. Technically, she wasn’t asked “will you do this” and God would not have to ask someone else because it was impossible for her to refuse. Not because she didn’t have free will, but because she was the model of obedience and grace.
You might as well as ask “what if she got run over by a donkey … what would God do then?”.
WELL DONE! It would not be called “our faith” if were able to with human logic figure everything out.:rolleyes:
 
Mark Thompson:
We should also be aware of the risk in diminishing Mary’s freely given assent by postulating that she somehow had the ability to grasp God’s entire plan, and that, comprehending such, only a moron could have said no. Luke tells us that Mary was “greatly troubled” and asked “How can this be?” In all likelihood she was maybe 15 years old. There’s simply no basis to believe that, in that brief (as far as we know) exchange with the angel, she came to a perfect or even very well formed idea of God’s plan. In fact, it’s in that sense that Mary is one of the best models for us: she didn’t know what God had in store for her, or how he would do it, but she put her trust in him and willingly gave herself over to him.
No doubt she didn’t have full knowledge of God’s plan, but she certainly knew enough at Gabriel’s words to know she was “the woman” of prophecy who would bear the Messiah. Her only confusion was the way it would happen, as she said, “How can this be since I know not man?” It was quite the decision and quite the faith that she answered with her fiat. And I wouldn’t cite her age. Young women younger than her were engaged and married at that time. People had to mature much earlier than our day since they generally lived shorter less predictable life spans. Mary’s intelligence and ability to discern were the remarkable thing, I think.
 
Mary’s intelligence and ability to discern were the remarkable thing, I think.
That’s a very pious and romantic thing to think, but to my knowledge it has no basis in Scripture or Church teaching.
 
That’s a very pious and romantic thing to think, but to my knowledge it has no basis in Scripture or Church teaching.
Just so you know, I’m not a starry-eyed romantic. I base my statement on what I’ve read of the great Saints who have delved into Mary’s life drawing on the whole of Sacred Tradition. I think you need to dig a little deeper, my friend before pronouncing what is and isn’t in Scripture and Church teaching. 😉
 
The discussion merits a little more caution in throwing around the word “impossible.” It’s possible for Pope Benedict to murder Msgr Marini at his next public Mass, in the sense that he has free will. It’s only “impossible” in the non-theological, non-philosophical sense in which someone like him would just never do something like that. One claim denies free will; the other is just an observation that holy, pious people (virtually) never do abominable, evil crimes. Philosophically, we cannot both acknowledge that Mary made her choice of her own free will, and at the same time hold that, at that moment, it was impossible for her to choose otherwise.

We should also be aware of the risk in diminishing Mary’s freely given assent by postulating that she somehow had the ability to grasp God’s entire plan, and that, comprehending such, only a moron could have said no. Luke tells us that Mary was “greatly troubled” and asked “How can this be?” In all likelihood she was maybe 15 years old. There’s simply no basis to believe that, in that brief (as far as we know) exchange with the angel, she came to a perfect or even very well formed idea of God’s plan. In fact, it’s in that sense that Mary is one of the best models for us: she didn’t know what God had in store for her, or how he would do it, but she put her trust in him and willingly gave herself over to him.
Does the Pope have that big of a problem with Msgr. Marini?
 
According to the Catechism:

II. . . .BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY

487 What the Catholic faith believes about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ, and what it teaches about Mary illumines in turn its faith in Christ.

Mary’s predestination

488 “God sent forth his Son”, but to prepare a body for him, he wanted the free co-operation of a creature. For this, from all eternity God chose for the mother of his Son a daughter of Israel, a young Jewish woman of Nazareth in Galilee, “a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary”:

The Father of mercies willed that the Incarnation should be preceded by assent on the part of the predestined mother, so that just as a woman had a share in the coming of death, so also should a woman contribute to the coming of life.

489 Throughout the Old Covenant the mission of many holy women prepared for that of Mary. At the very beginning there was Eve; despite her disobedience, she receives the promise of a posterity that will be victorious over the evil one, as well as the promise that she will be the mother of all the living. By virtue of this promise, Sarah conceives a son in spite of her old age. Against all human expectation God chooses those who were considered powerless and weak to show forth his faithfulness to his promises: Hannah, the mother of Samuel; Deborah; Ruth; Judith and Esther; and many other women. Mary “stands out among the poor and humble of the Lord, who confidently hope for and receive salvation from him. After a long period of waiting the times are fulfilled in her, the exalted Daughter of Sion, and the new plan of salvation is established.”

The Immaculate Conception

490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary “was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role.” The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as “full of grace”. In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.

491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.

492 The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son”. The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” and chose her “in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love”.

493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia), and celebrate her as “free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature”. By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.

“Let it be done to me according to your word. . .”

494 At the announcement that she would give birth to “the Son of the Most High” without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that “with God nothing will be impossible”: “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word.” Thus, giving her consent to God’s word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God’s grace:

As St. Irenaeus says, “Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race.” Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert. . .: “The knot of Eve’s disobedience was untied by Mary’s obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith.” Comparing her with Eve, they call Mary “the Mother of the living” and frequently claim: “Death through Eve, life through Mary.”

And as previous posters have already said several times God exists outside of time. He knows all; past, present, and future. This does not restrict free will. We still freely choose, but God knows what we will choose because he is not restricted by time (obviously, since he created time itself). Much has been written about God and free will, I suggest you ask your priest to explain this more to you and perhaps suggest some essays or books that cover the topic at greater length. In the end though you must have faith.
 
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