I have questions about veneration in the Eastern Catholic Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter Aydan
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Aydan

Guest
I have a question about bowing in Eastern Catholicism. Do Eastern Catholics bow when venerating icons like the Orthodox Christians? Are there any photographs that show how to venerate icons in the Eastern Catholic churches?
 
Yes, we do bow. My advice is not to worry about photographs. If you’re going to an Eastern Catholic liturgy, just imitate what the locals do. That’s how I learned when I first starting to go to Divine Liturgy. I would say that the overwhelming majority of people will not be scrutinizing your attempts to practice Eastern devotions. We’re accustomed to visitors who aren’t quite sure what to do. Go. Imitate others. Be at ease. Worship our Lord and delight in the beauty of the liturgy.
 
Aydan said:
I have a question about bowing in Eastern Catholicism. Do Eastern Catholics bow when venerating icons like the Orthodox Christians? Are there any photographs that show how to venerate icons in the Eastern Catholic churches?
Click to expand...
Well, er, how do *you *kiss icons that you can’t pick up?
 
capablanca911 said:
Well, er, how do *you *kiss icons that you can’t pick up?
Click to expand...
Make two metanies (profound bows) with the Sign of the Cross preceding each bow. Kiss the Icon. Then make one more metany with the Sign of the Cross.

You bend your head to kiss them. If this is not possible, touch your hand to your mouth and then touch the Icon.
“We should kiss the feet or hand of Christ or, in the case of the popular icon “Not-made-by-hands” (Mandylion), the hair (never the face). Icons of the Theotokos and saints are reverenced on their hands.”

Depending on the parish, sketch #2 or #3 is what a metany looks like. 🙂
https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1185012_192577914246882_1865912693_n.jpg
 
Thank you all.Unfortunately I’m not going to the Divine liturgy I wish I was. I was asking because I was involved in a debate with a Latin rite Catholic who said that Catholics do not bow when venerating statutes. And he told me I didn’t know what I was talking about but I knew he was wrong because I’ve seen visitors to my parish who are Eastern rite bowing in front of the statute of our blessed mother. I wanted pictures because we are on Facebook and I wanted to show him that Eastern Catholics do bow when venerating icons. I saw them making a small bow I think when I was watching them at my parish.
 
Aydan said:
Thank you all.Unfortunately I’m not going to the Divine liturgy I wish I was. I was asking because I was involved in a debate with a Latin rite Catholic who said that Catholics do not bow when venerating statutes. And he told me I didn’t know what I was talking about but I knew he was wrong because I’ve seen visitors to my parish who are Eastern rite bowing in front of the statute of our blessed mother. I wanted pictures because we are on Facebook and I wanted to show him that Eastern Catholics do bow when venerating icons. I saw them making a small bow I think when I was watching them at my parish.
Click to expand...
Here is an actual picture of people venerating Icons. We are not allowed to kneel or prostrate on Sundays and from Easter through Pentecost (many prostrate instead of bowing during the other days):

https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1378457_577672472297131_1891175771_n.jpg
 
Zekariya said:
Make two metanies (profound bows) with the Sign of the Cross preceding each bow. Kiss the Icon. Then make one more metany with the Sign of the Cross.

You bend your head to kiss them. If this is not possible, touch your hand to your mouth and then touch the Icon.
“We should kiss the feet or hand of Christ or, in the case of the popular icon “Not-made-by-hands” (Mandylion), the hair (never the face). Icons of the Theotokos and saints are reverenced on their hands.”

Depending on the parish, sketch #2 or #3 is what a metany looks like. 🙂
https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1185012_192577914246882_1865912693_n.jpg
Click to expand...
In our Byzantine Church we just bow from the waist as in figure #2 but many of our younger members do the #5. Many of us older members couldn`t possibly do any more than bow from the waist. 🙂 Even when I attend a Roman Rite church I cannot genuflect as I used to so I just bow.
 
Zekariya said:
Make two metanies (profound bows) with the Sign of the Cross preceding each bow. Kiss the Icon. Then make one more metany with the Sign of the Cross.

You bend your head to kiss them. If this is not possible, touch your hand to your mouth and then touch the Icon.
“We should kiss the feet or hand of Christ or, in the case of the popular icon “Not-made-by-hands” (Mandylion), the hair (never the face). Icons of the Theotokos and saints are reverenced on their hands.”

Depending on the parish, sketch #2 or #3 is what a metany looks like. 🙂
https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1185012_192577914246882_1865912693_n.jpg
Click to expand...
The sketch is not a metania. It is a prostration. A Metania is a deep bow touching the floor with the fingers of your right hand as shown in number 3. When venerating an icon one kisses the icon. The word metania in Greek means repentance. I am quite sure that Eastern Catholics follow the same practice as Eastern Orthodox.

Archpriest John W. Morris
 
frjohnmorris said:
The sketch is not a metania. It is a prostration. A Metania is a deep bow touching the floor with the fingers of your right hand as shown in number 3. When venerating an icon one kisses the icon. The word metania in Greek means repentance. I am quite sure that Eastern Catholics follow the same practice as Eastern Orthodox.

Archpriest John W. Morris
Click to expand...
Father bless.

I mentioned that sketches #2 and #3 are what people do for a metany depending on the parish. The full image depicts the different levels of bowing and prostrating. 🙂
 
Thank you so much everyone for your help. Peace be with all of you.
 
Byzantine Rite Christians do not kneel or prostrate themselves on Sunday because Sunday is always a little Pascha, a commemoration of the Resurrection.
There is no kneeling or prostrations during the Pascha period. Kneeling is reintroduced during the Kneeling Vespers of Pentecost. Although it is usually done after the Divine Liturgy, the service is actually for Sunday evening which is liturgically not Sunday, but Monday. Do not the Latin Rite Catholic have the same concept that the liturgical day begins at Sunset so that the evening before a feast is the beginning of the feast?

Archpriest John Morris
 
frjohnmorris said:
Byzantine Rite Christians do not kneel or prostrate themselves on Sunday because Sunday is always a little Pascha, a commemoration of the Resurrection.
There is no kneeling or prostrations during the Pascha period. Kneeling is reintroduced during the Kneeling Vespers of Pentecost. Although it is usually done after the Divine Liturgy, the service is actually for Sunday evening which is liturgically not Sunday, but Monday. Do not the Latin Rite Catholic have the same concept that the liturgical day begins at Sunset so that the evening before a feast is the beginning of the feast?

Archpriest John Morris
Click to expand...
Father, bless!!

Yes, Latin Rite Catholics do share the same concept that the liturgical day begins at sunset the evening before.
 
Just to throw in a slight nuance (although I’m unsure whether it’s Middle Eastern or specifically Oriental), subsequent to kissing an icon or cross one may also touch their forehead to the object.
 
MorEphrem said:
Just to throw in a slight nuance (although I’m unsure whether it’s Middle Eastern or specifically Oriental), subsequent to kissing an icon or cross one may also touch their forehead to the object.
Click to expand...
That’s the way I learned. 😉 We also don’t necessarily touch lips to an icon, but often “kiss” the first two fingers by touching them to the lips, touch them to the icon, then touch them again to the lips, thus taking the blessing from the Icon. And then touching the forehead to it.
 
malphono said:
That’s the way I learned. 😉 We also don’t necessarily touch lips to an icon, but often “kiss” the first two fingers by touching them to the lips, touch them to the icon, then touch them again to the lips, thus taking the blessing from the Icon.
Click to expand...
This is what we do at my parish.
 
I’m curious as if this is a specifically Oriental form of veneration since I’ve seen Armenians and Syriacs (and you, a Copt, said you do so) do it (inclusive of Syro-Malankara, etc.) or it’s just a Middle Eastern local custom (inclusive of the AO, Melkites, etc.).
 
MorEphrem said:
Just to throw in a slight nuance (although I’m unsure whether it’s Middle Eastern or specifically Oriental), subsequent to kissing an icon or cross one may also touch their forehead to the object.
Click to expand...
I am not familiar with that particular custom, but there are all sorts of acts of private devotion like that. Frequently Middle Eastern people come up and stand or kneel below the Gospel while the priest reads it during the Divine Liturgy. People sometimes put flowers in a vase on the floor or a shelf before an icon. The most common custom is to lite a candle in a stand before an icon just like Latin Rite Christians lite votive candles. In most Byzantine Rite Churches there are votive candles before icons in the Narthex and before the iconostasis. At the end of the Liturgy according to Antiochian Orthodox custom the people come forward and kiss a cross held by the priest at the end of the Divine Liturgy. They also kiss the Gospel book after it is chanted during Matins. The Greeks kiss the hand of the priest as he hands them a piece of blessed bread called antidorion. Our people also take antidorion from a basket held by an Altar server after the Dismissal of the Divine Liturgy.

Archpriest John W. Morris
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top