I hope this question isn't taken the wrong way

[MarcusAndreas]

Why do orders like the FSSP exist? What kind of charism is saying the Tridentine mass? Franciscans are poor, Dominicans preach, Carmelites sanctify themselves to sanctify the world, but FSSP et. al just say the Tridentine mass. I’ve heard that their priests are very good holy men, great preachers and confessors, etc. which I believe, but wouldn’t the people who come to their chapels already be the type of people who know the faith? Aren’t the kind of people who need priests like this the most be people who are spiritually dying in a diocesan parish who don’t even know what the Tridentine mass is be the people who need priests like that the most, not people who know the faith already who are vanishing off into the oblivion of an obscure chapel? It seems counterintuitive. If I become a priest, I would of course do liturgy very reverently, preach my best, be the best confessor I can be, etc. but the idea of joining a group like the FSSP doesn’t make sense because the people who need their holiness the most aren’t going to be the people driving 8 hours every Sunday to go to their chapels or whatever. Can someone slap me into shape?

 

[Monica4316]

I think that organizations like the FSSP help to ensure that the Extraordinary Form continues, and this also helps the whole Church because it supports Tradition and the fight against liberalism. It helps the Novus Ordo as well.

 

[TrueLight]

This might give you a better idea of their charism.

FSSP

 

[gferrer]

Why do orders like the FSSP exist? What kind of charism is saying the Tridentine mass? Franciscans are poor, Dominicans preach, Carmelites sanctify themselves to sanctify the world, but FSSP et. al just say the Tridentine mass.

Each order’s charism arises from contemporary circumstances. The Dominicans, for example, arose in opposition to the Catharist troubles. The strategy of developing traveling preachers was designed to counter the heretics doing the same thing. As circumstances changed, they found ways to deploy their charism in new venues, such as missionary work and university scholarship.

Similarly, the FSSP arose in response to the need for pastoral care of those Catholics with an attachment to the Tridentine Mass. The distinctive charism of the FSSP may well be clarified further in the future if adoption of the EF by diocesan priests ultimately proves sufficient to meet pastoral needs.

 

[At_Trent]

They owe their existence to our Holy Father

 

[At_Trent]

This MP really explains it all

Motu Proprio “Ecclesia Dei” of Pope John-Paul II, 2 July 1988

1. With great affliction the Church has learned of the unlawful episcopal ordination conferred on 30 June last by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, which has frustrated all the efforts made during the previous years to ensure the full communion with the Church of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X founded by the same Mons. Lefebvre. These efforts, especially intense during recent months, in which the Apostolic See has shown comprehension to the limits of the possible, were all to no avail.(1)
2. This affliction was particularly felt by the Successor of Peter to whom in the first place pertains the guardianship of the unity of the Church,(2) even though the number of persons directly involved in these events might be few. For every person is loved by God on his own account and has been redeemed by the blood of Christ shed on the Cross for the salvation of all.

The particular circumstances, both objective and subjective in which Archbishop Lefebvre acted, provide everyone with an occasion for profound reflection and for a renewed pledge of fidelity to Christ and to his Church.

1. In itself, this act was one of disobedience to the Roman Pontiff in a very grave matter and of supreme importance for the unity of the church, such as is the ordination of bishops whereby the apostolic succession is sacramentally perpetuated. Hence such disobedience - which implies in practice the rejection of the Roman primacy - constitutes a schismatic act.(3) In performing such an act, notwithstanding the formal canonical warning sent to them by the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops on 17 June last, Mons. Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law.(4)
2. The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete and contradictory notion of Tradition. Incomplete, because it does not take sufficiently into account the living character of Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, “comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts. It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience. And it comes from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth”.(5)

But especially contradictory is a notion of Tradition which opposes the universal Magisterium of the Church possessed by the Bishop of Rome and the Body of Bishops. It is impossible to remain faithful to the Tradition while breaking the ecclesial bond with him to whom, in the person of the Apostle Peter, Christ himself entrusted the ministry of unity in his Church.(6)

1. Faced with the situation that has arisen I deem it my duty to inform all the Catholic faithful of some aspects which this sad event has highlighted.

a) The outcome of the movement promoted by Mons. Lefebvre can and must be, for all the Catholic faithful, a motive for sincere reflection concerning their own fidelity to the Church’s Tradition, authentically interpreted by the ecclesiastical Magisterium, ordinary and extraordinary, especially in the Ecumenical Councils from Nicaea to Vatican II. From this reflection all should draw a renewed and efficacious conviction of the necessity of strengthening still more their fidelity by rejecting erroneous interpretations and arbitrary and unauthorized applications in matters of doctrine, liturgy and discipline.

To the bishops especially it pertains, by reason of their pastoral mission, to exercise the important duty of a clear-sighted vigilance full of charity and firmness, so that this fidelity may be everywhere safeguarded.(7)

However, it is necessary that all the Pastors and the other faithful have a new awareness, not only of the lawfulness but also of the richness for the Church of a diversity of charisms, traditions of spirituality and apostolate, which also constitutes the beauty of unity in variety: of that blended “harmony” which the earthly Church raises up to Heaven under the impulse of the Holy Spirit.

cont.

 

[At_Trent]

b) Moreover, I should like to remind theologians and other experts in the ecclesiastical sciences that they should feel themselves called upon to answer in the present circumstances. Indeed, the extent and depth of the teaching of the Second Vatican Council call for a renewed commitment to deeper study in order to reveal clearly the Council’s continuity with Tradition, especially in points of doctrine which, perhaps because they are new, have not yet been well understood by some sections of the Church.

c) In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.(8)

To all those Catholic faithful who feel attached to some previous liturgical and disciplinary forms of the Latin tradition I wish to manifest my will to facilitate their ecclesial communion by means of the necessary measures to guarantee respect for their rightful aspirations. In this matter I ask for the support of the bishops and of all those engaged in the pastoral ministry in the Church.

1. Taking account of the importance and complexity of the problems referred to in this document, by virtue of my Apostolic Authority I decree the following:

a) a Commission is instituted whose task it will be to collaborate with the bishops, with the Departments of the Roman Curia and with the circles concerned, for the purpose of facilitating full ecclesial communion of priests, seminarians, religious communities or individuals until now linked in various ways to the Fraternity founded by Mons. Lefebvre, who may wish to remain united to the Successor Peter in the Catholic Church, while preserving their spiritual and liturgical traditions, in the light of the Protocol signed on 5 May last by Cardinal Ratzinger and Mons. Lefebvre;

b) this Commission is composed of a Cardinal President and other members of the Roman Curia, in a number that will be deemed opportune according to circumstances;

c) moreover, respect must everywhere be shown for the feelings of all those who are attached to the Latin liturgical tradition, by a wide and generous application of the directives already issued some time ago by the Apostolic See for the use of the Roman Missal according to the typical edition of 1962.(9)

1. As this year specially dedicated to the Blessed Virgin is now drawing to a close, I wish to exhort all to join in unceasing prayer that the Vicar of Christ, through the intercession of the Mother of the church, addresses to the Father in the very words of the Son: “That they all may be one!”.

Given at Rome, at St. Peter’s. 2 July 1988, the tenth year of the pontificate.

Joannes Paulus PP. II

 

[JReducation]

Why do orders like the FSSP exist? What kind of charism is saying the Tridentine mass? Franciscans are poor, Dominicans preach, Carmelites sanctify themselves to sanctify the world, but FSSP et. al just say the Tridentine mass. I’ve heard that their priests are very good holy men, great preachers and confessors, etc. which I believe, but wouldn’t the people who come to their chapels already be the type of people who know the faith? Aren’t the kind of people who need priests like this the most be people who are spiritually dying in a diocesan parish who don’t even know what the Tridentine mass is be the people who need priests like that the most, not people who know the faith already who are vanishing off into the oblivion of an obscure chapel? It seems counterintuitive. If I become a priest, I would of course do liturgy very reverently, preach my best, be the best confessor I can be, etc. but the idea of joining a group like the FSSP doesn’t make sense because the people who need their holiness the most aren’t going to be the people driving 8 hours every Sunday to go to their chapels or whatever. Can someone slap me into shape?

The FSSP is not a religious community. They are secular priests who live in a puplic clerical association of the faithful known as a society of apstolic life. Their primary ministry is to preserve the Traditional Liturgy. You don’t have to join the Fraternity to celebrate the Extraordinary Form.

The other communities that you mentioned and those that you did not mention are consecrated men. Many are priests as well as consecrated men. They join a religious community because they are called to live a very concrete way of life. Being a priest, doctor, teacher, cook, carpenter, etc, is the means through which this religious serves the Church. But being a Dominican or a Benedictine is how he lives his faith.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Why do orders like the FSSP exist? What kind of charism is saying the Tridentine mass? Franciscans are poor, Dominicans preach, Carmelites sanctify themselves to sanctify the world, but FSSP et. al just say the Tridentine mass. I’ve heard that their priests are very good holy men, great preachers and confessors, etc. which I believe, but wouldn’t the people who come to their chapels already be the type of people who know the faith? Aren’t the kind of people who need priests like this the most be people who are spiritually dying in a diocesan parish who don’t even know what the Tridentine mass is be the people who need priests like that the most, not people who know the faith already who are vanishing off into the oblivion of an obscure chapel? It seems counterintuitive. If I become a priest, I would of course do liturgy very reverently, preach my best, be the best confessor I can be, etc. but the idea of joining a group like the FSSP doesn’t make sense because the people who need their holiness the most aren’t going to be the people driving 8 hours every Sunday to go to their chapels or whatever. Can someone slap me into shape?

I did not know it was approved by Pope John Paul II, one of them tried to kill Him in Fatima.

Now, suppose there would be an Order to keep alive the liturgy of the VI Century? 10 thousand years from now, there would be dozens of such orders …

Well, if the Pope approved, ok. I am not going there to hear Latin.

 

[At_Trent]

I did not know it was approved by Pope John Paul II, one of them tried to kill Him in Fatima.

One of who ?

 

[JReducation]

I did not know it was approved by Pope John Paul II, one of them tried to kill Him in Fatima.

Now, suppose there would be an Order to keep alive the liturgy of the VI Century? 10 thousand years from now, there would be dozens of such orders …

Well, if the Pope approved, ok. I am not going there to hear Latin.

Thankfully, you cannot have a religious order or a religious congregation for the sake of a particular form of the mass. That’s not allowed in the Church. Religious orders and religious congregations are to provide the Church with an organized way of living the Gospel in daily life. The liturgy of the Eucharist and the hours are an important part in the life of the religious, but the religious life does not exist for the liturgy, but for the santification of its members through a live of virtue, prayer, community, penance, obedience, conversion of manners and service to others. The liturgy is the focal point of the prayer life of the order.

There are orders that have a preference for the Extraordinary Form, but they don’t identify themselves as a liturgical order. They identify themselves by a particular charism and the Extraordinary Form plays the same role in their lives as the Ordinary Form plays in the lives of other religious communities.

It’s really interesting, because among religious, this subject rarely comes up. If you put a Canon of St. John Cantius, a Franciscan of the Immaculate, a Francisan of the Renewal, a Carmelite, and a Passionist into one room, the form of the mass is not something that they discuss. The discussion is not necessary, because everyone knows that the Canons prefer the EF and promote it. The Franciscans of the Immaculate do both, the EF and OF, the Carmelites only use the OF or the Carmelite Rite, and the Passionists use only the OF. A typical conversation would focus on cooperation in ministry, formation programs, missionary activity,and common spiritual matters.

This conversation is not as common inside the religious life as it is outside. I’m not sure why. My guess is that religious focus more on fidelity to their charism. Today, this is the most important concern facing the religious life, how to be faithful to the original charism.

The FSSP are good to have in such a meeting when you need someone to teach you about the Extraordinary Form. The rest, the religious can do on their own. There is a trend among religious to use the FSSP as a resource, which is good. That’s their primary ministry. The FSSP still refer to the religious for all matters on spirituality, because that’s their domain, where they’re strong. It’s a complimentary relationship.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

One of who ?

I’ve heard that story, but there are some errors here. There was never an attempt. It was a plot. The individual was a Traditionalist without any formal affiliation to the FSSP or SSPX. And he was not well wrapped, poor soul. There is a loose canon in every group. You can’t hold the larger group responsible for that.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[adstrinity]

The FSSP (priests) exist for a very real reason: to make saints for God.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I think that organizations like the FSSP help to ensure that the Extraordinary Form continues, and this also helps the whole Church because it supports Tradition and the fight against liberalism. It helps the Novus Ordo as well.

I agree with this as well as many other points mentioned in other posts. I’d like to add another one. You suggest that people who go to EF mass already know the faith well, generally speaking, and that it is this not necessary for them to get good, holy priests. You suggests that such priests should go and educate and help the poor, etc. Well, there are plenty of priests and religious doing just that: educating and helping. What is wrong with a group of priests dedicating themselves to maintaining the tradition and thus helping those who are nourished spiritually in that particular way? Do you assume that those who know the faith well do not need more? Perhaps you don’t understand what the big deal is and how the EF mass does that, so you should go and find out. If you can, attend the EF for a few weeks, learn more about it and try to understand the rich spirituality behind it. I thank God for FSSP because without them I would probably never have discovered the EF mass and the rich traditions of our church.

 

[MarcusAndreas]

The priest who tried to kill JPII was an SSPX priest, not an FSSP priest. The FSSP did not exist yet.

 

[At_Trent]

I’ve heard that story, but there are some errors here. There was never an attempt. It was a plot. The individual was a Traditionalist without any formal affiliation to the FSSP or SSPX. And he was not well wrapped, poor soul. There is a loose canon in every group. You can’t hold the larger group responsible for that.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

The priest who tried to kill JPII was an SSPX priest, not an FSSP priest. The FSSP did not exist yet.

So which is it ?

 

[Poor_Soul]

This might give you a better idea of their charism.

FSSP

Straight to the source, I like your style!

FSSP

In the world, the priests of the Fraternity live in small communities and work to spread the Gospel by means of preaching, catechesis, youth education (scout troops, schools), and organizing pilgrimages and retreats, etc. With the full approval of the Holy See and the permission of local bishops, the priests provide a full sacramental life for the faithful, administered according to the liturgical books of 1962.

 

[JReducation]

The FSSP (priests) exist for a very real reason: to make saints for God.

That’s the mission of the whole Church. I think the poinit is what makes the FSSP different from consecrated religious? The answer to that is that they are not consecrated men.

Then it begs the question, what makes them different from other secular priests. The answer to that was provided above in a post that explains the purpose of the Fraternity.

So which is it ?

The poster may be correct that he was an SSPX priest. I had not heard that. I had heard that he claimed that he was SSPX, but that the poor man was not well wrapped, as I say. Whether he was an SSPX who is not well or a former SSPX, in either case, the SSPX cannot be held responsible or accountable to this man’s actions. That would be very uncharitable.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

One of who ?

Juan María Fernández y Krohn (born ca. 1948, Spain) is a former Roman Catholic priest and former Belgian lawyer who tried to physically attack Pope John Paul II in 1982.[1]

He was ordained a priest in the Society of Saint Pius X seminary in Ecône, Switzerland in 1978.[2] He was retroactively terminated from membership in the Society after his assassination attempt on the Pope and because he openly proclaimed that Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s opposition to Pope John Paul II was too weak.[2]3

 

[At_Trent]

Why do orders like the FSSP exist? What kind of charism is saying the Tridentine mass? Franciscans are poor, Dominicans preach, Carmelites sanctify themselves to sanctify the world, but FSSP et. al just say the Tridentine mass. I’ve heard that their priests are very good holy men, great preachers and confessors, etc. which I believe, but wouldn’t the people who come to their chapels already be the type of people who know the faith? Aren’t the kind of people who need priests like this the most be people who are spiritually dying in a diocesan parish who don’t even know what the Tridentine mass is be the people who need priests like that the most, not people who know the faith already who are vanishing off into the oblivion of an obscure chapel? It seems counterintuitive. If I become a priest, I would of course do liturgy very reverently, preach my best, be the best confessor I can be, etc. but the idea of joining a group like the FSSP doesn’t make sense because the people who need their holiness the most aren’t going to be the people driving 8 hours every Sunday to go to their chapels or whatever. Can someone slap me into shape?

I did not know it was approved by Pope John Paul II, one of them tried to kill Him in Fatima.

Now, suppose there would be an Order to keep alive the liturgy of the VI Century? 10 thousand years from now, there would be dozens of such orders …

Well, if the Pope approved, ok. I am not going there to hear Latin.

Juan María Fernández y Krohn (born ca. 1948, Spain) is a former Roman Catholic priest and former Belgian lawyer who tried to physically attack Pope John Paul II in 1982.[1]

He was ordained a priest in the Society of Saint Pius X seminary in Ecône, Switzerland in 1978.[2] He was retroactively terminated from membership in the Society after his assassination attempt on the Pope and because he openly proclaimed that Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s opposition to Pope John Paul II was too weak.[2]3

Pfaffenhoffen, you quoted MarcusAndreas’s post which named the FSSP only, so your post claiming “one of them” was misleading.

At any rate, the Wiki article is true according to every SSPX clergy I’ve seen comment on the matter.