I jsut heard this on EWTN

[AshleyBelle]

. No matter how honorable the initial intent it at some point replaced God. You see my consern? It really bothers me this thing.

I understand your concern, especially because these were all concerns I had myself at some point

“How long before some catholic will go so far ast to say mary is homoosious with the son?” Well…even if some Catholic ever DID say that…I’m sure that would be cause enough for the councils, even the pope, to step up and dogmatically call out the heresy. The doctrines aren’t there to tell us what is “acceptable” devotion to Mary…but they ARE there to make sure we don’t take it too far. I don’t have to worry about it going “too far” because the Holy Spirit is guarding the Church, and will always ensure that we only give her the honor and praise which is pleasing to her Son

The Ark of the Covenant idea is actually very founded in tradition and scripture.  Just as the ark of the first covenant housed the Holy Spirit, (God Himself),  Mary was the vessel for Christ himself. I wish I could remember the practice in better detail, but the Jews had a ritual for keeping the ark "purified" (maybe someone with a better knowledge of this can step in?).  Just as we believe Mary had to be a pure, spotless vessel for Christ.

All of the titles we give Mary are out of love for her! All the pilgramages Catholics go on to visit her shrines are out of devotion and love. I don’t worry one bit about devotion to Mary “replacing” devotion to God! It is pleasing to Christ that we honor and love His mother… She is truly the mother of all Christians!

And the way that she participates in our salvation, is that her “yes,” her faithful obedience to God, was what brought Christ into the world! Without Christ and His sacrifice, Mary would never have been able to be immaculately conceived and preserved from sin as a pure vessel for the Son of God. Because it through the blood of Christ that she was sanctified, just as we all are through baptism!
Do you see how the two may not be seperated? They both play very distinct roles in our salvation… Jesus OFFERS savlation to the whole world, and Mary recieves and faithfully obeys Him through her “yes” and her eternal “do whatever He tells you.” We recieve salvation THROUGH Jesus Christ, who came into the world THROUGH Mary. Does that help?

Also keep in mind what Catholic worship is. Our devotions, prayers to mary and the saints, candles, hymns, and praises are not all “worship.” They are participation in the Family of God Our prayers to the saints are conversations with them, to build up our worship to GOD alone through Christ alone.

Think about all the marian prayers…

Even the most fervent Marian prayers ALL begin with “In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” And end as such. It is because it’s only THROUGH Christ that we may even have a devotion to our Mother or any Saint at all. Catholics don’t distinguish this, because it just isn’t something we need to question.

Let’s use the model of the human family for example. A child may have love for both their mother and their father. But the love they express for their mother may be SIGNIFICANTLY different… Because of the nature of motherhood. We give our mothers flowers and show more emotional affection than we do our fathers. It doesn’t make the father envious that the child shows so much affection to their mother one bit!
As a mother myself, it deepens MY love for my husband when my children show affection for me. Because I grow in appreciation for the gift He gave me by sharing of himself so that we could have our beautiful family A husband offers himself to his wife, and the wife recieves his gift in love. And through their love, LIFE is created!

When a child loves their mother, they are reflecting their father’s love for her!
The love we express for our fathers is different sometimes… though no less loving! We express our love for them through respect, trust, obedience and faithfulness to their “fathership” of the family

This is the way we relate to Mary, our mother!   I know this is all very abstract..but it's actually a very deep, enriching part of Christian devotion!

Our love for Christ is best expressed through our LOVE for His mother, and our OBEDIENCE to his command to "eat of my flesh and drink of My blood.. if you do not, you have no life within you!"
We love Christ fully, intimately, and obediently through the eucharist! This is the CENTER of all Catholic worship.  We devote EVERYTHING to him!   Catholic "worship" is not about the songs we sing or the prayers we say, but about our obedience, and child-like faithfulness to EVERYTHING God offers us! Our faithfulness to the CHURCH which is His body on earth, and our love for all of his creation.

Our love for god is best reflected through our love of His family! And WE are the family of God! We love His mother, and we love those who have come before us…and in doing so we grow in love for our Lord

 

[sambos671]

No, you’re wrong. Your everyday average Catholic is not catechized well enough to worship anybody.

Those are individuals doing that against the Church. The Church does not teach this and the Church does not approve what all people see as legitimate aparitions. In effect, those people are going against the Church who do this.

If you’re going to love Mary, love Mary, but do not judge what others do concerning your love of Mary.

Also, She is Co-Redemtrix. Not Redemtrix. Co. She could not redeem by Herself.

Christ has not been replaced in 2000 years in the Church, in the Church, He is there. If some Catholics say that Mary is homoosious with Her Son, those are some Catholics, not the Church, and not you, should you ever come back.

The Catholic church does not teach Co-redemtrix. They teach mediatrix but not Co-redemtrix.

 

[sambos671]

I understand your concern, especially because these were all concerns I had myself at some point

“How long before some catholic will go so far ast to say mary is homoosious with the son?” Well…even if some Catholic ever DID say that…I’m sure that would be cause enough for the councils, even the pope, to step up and dogmatically call out the heresy. The doctrines aren’t there to tell us what is “acceptable” devotion to Mary…but they ARE there to make sure we don’t take it too far. I don’t have to worry about it going “too far” because the Holy Spirit is guarding the Church, and will always ensure that we only give her the honor and praise which is pleasing to her Son

The Ark of the Covenant idea is actually very founded in tradition and scripture.  Just as the ark of the first covenant housed the Holy Spirit, (God Himself),  Mary was the vessel for Christ himself. I wish I could remember the practice in better detail, but the Jews had a ritual for keeping the ark "purified" (maybe someone with a better knowledge of this can step in?).  Just as we believe Mary had to be a pure, spotless vessel for Christ.

All of the titles we give Mary are out of love for her! All the pilgramages Catholics go on to visit her shrines are out of devotion and love. I don’t worry one bit about devotion to Mary “replacing” devotion to God! It is pleasing to Christ that we honor and love His mother… She is truly the mother of all Christians!

And the way that she participates in our salvation, is that her “yes,” her faithful obedience to God, was what brought Christ into the world! Without Christ and His sacrifice, Mary would never have been able to be immaculately conceived and preserved from sin as a pure vessel for the Son of God. Because it through the blood of Christ that she was sanctified, just as we all are through baptism!
Do you see how the two may not be seperated? They both play very distinct roles in our salvation… Jesus OFFERS savlation to the whole world, and Mary recieves and faithfully obeys Him through her “yes” and her eternal “do whatever He tells you.” We recieve salvation THROUGH Jesus Christ, who came into the world THROUGH Mary. Does that help?

Also keep in mind what Catholic worship is. Our devotions, prayers to mary and the saints, candles, hymns, and praises are not all “worship.” They are participation in the Family of God Our prayers to the saints are conversations with them, to build up our worship to GOD alone through Christ alone.

Think about all the marian prayers…

Even the most fervent Marian prayers ALL begin with “In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” And end as such. It is because it’s only THROUGH Christ that we may even have a devotion to our Mother or any Saint at all. Catholics don’t distinguish this, because it just isn’t something we need to question.

Let’s use the model of the human family for example. A child may have love for both their mother and their father. But the love they express for their mother may be SIGNIFICANTLY different… Because of the nature of motherhood. We give our mothers flowers and show more emotional affection than we do our fathers. It doesn’t make the father envious that the child shows so much affection to their mother one bit!
As a mother myself, it deepens MY love for my husband when my children show affection for me. Because I grow in appreciation for the gift He gave me by sharing of himself so that we could have our beautiful family A husband offers himself to his wife, and the wife recieves his gift in love. And through their love, LIFE is created!

When a child loves their mother, they are reflecting their father’s love for her!
The love we express for our fathers is different sometimes… though no less loving! We express our love for them through respect, trust, obedience and faithfulness to their “fathership” of the family

This is the way we relate to Mary, our mother!   I know this is all very abstract..but it's actually a very deep, enriching part of Christian devotion!

Our love for Christ is best expressed through our LOVE for His mother, and our OBEDIENCE to his command to "eat of my flesh and drink of My blood.. if you do not, you have no life within you!"
We love Christ fully, intimately, and obediently through the eucharist! This is the CENTER of all Catholic worship.  We devote EVERYTHING to him!   Catholic "worship" is not about the songs we sing or the prayers we say, but about our obedience, and child-like faithfulness to EVERYTHING God offers us! Our faithfulness to the CHURCH which is His body on earth, and our love for all of his creation.

Our love for god is best reflected through our love of His family! And WE are the family of God! We love His mother, and we love those who have come before us…and in doing so we grow in love for our Lord

I will consider your statments. But on a side note, using your analogy: I’m afraid “Mom” will start wearing the pants in the family.

I know its just an analogy but imperfect because we love “Mom” equally with “Dad” differently but equally. Mom and Dad play the authoritative role equally. Though following this same line of thinking would that make the Pope the eldest brother?

 

[Genesis315]

The sense is the same as the Bishop Challoner’s footnote in the DRV explains:

15 “She shall crush”… Ipsa, the woman; so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz., the seed. The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent’s head.

Actually, I think “she” is more accurate. The Hebrew as written doesn’t have a vowel–it can be translated as he, she, or they. Most Christians translate it as “he” thinking of Christ. Jews translate it as “they.”

jtsa.edu/community/parash…bereshit.shtml

If we look at the rest of Scripture, it is never actually Christ himself directly crushing the head of the enemy, but someone else doing it by the Lord’s power.

Two other women called blessed among all women and predicted to be praised by all generations, Jahel and Judith, both by the power of God strike at the head of the chief enemy.

Judges 5:24 Blessed among women be Jahel the wife of Haber the Cinite, and blessed be she in her tent. 25 He asked her water and she gave him milk, and offered him butter in a dish fit for princes. 26 She put her left hand to the nail, and her right hand to the workman’s hammer, and she struck Sisara, seeking in his head a place for the wound, and strongly piercing through his temples.

Judith 13:17 Judith said: Praise ye the Lord our God, who hath not forsaken them that hope in him. 18 And by me his handmaid he hath fulfilled his mercy, which he promised to the house of Israel: and he hath killed the enemy of his people by my hand this night. 19 Then she brought forth the head of Holofernes out of the wallet, and shewed it them, saying: Behold the head of Holofernes the general of the army of the Assyrians, and behold his canopy, wherein he lay in his drunkenness, where the Lord our God slew him by the hand of a woman. 20 But as the same Lord liveth, his angel hath been my keeper both going hence, and abiding there, and returning from thence hither: and the Lord hath not suffered me his handmaid to be defiled, but hath brought me back to you without pollution of sin, rejoicing for his victory, for my escape, and for your deliverance. 21 Give all of you glory to him, because he is good, because his mercy endureth for ever. 22 And they all adored the Lord, and said to her: The Lord hath blessed thee by his power, because by thee he hath brought our enemies to nought. 23 And Ozias the prince of the people of Israel, said to her: Blessed art thou, O daughter, by the Lord the most high God, above all women upon the earth. 24 Blessed be the Lord who made heaven and earth, who hath directed thee to the cutting off the head of the prince of our enemies. 25 Because he hath so magnified thy name this day, that thy praise shall not depart out of the mouth of men who shall be mindful of the power of the Lord for ever, for that thou hast not spared thy life, by reason of the distress and tribulation of thy people, but hast prevented our ruin in the presence of our God. 26 And all the people said: So be it, so be it.

Likewise, St. Paul writing in Romans exhorts the Church of Rome to trample the serpent by the power of God. It’s never Jesus Himself, He’s always working through someone else.

Rom. 16:20 And the God of peace crush Satan under your feet speedily. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

I think the she refers to both Mary and the Church (Mary being the image and a precursor of the Church.). Just as Mary has already trampled Satan under foot, so will the Church by the power of her Seed trample him.

Plus, if we take into account private revelation (we which are not bound to of course), the renderon of “she” is pretty much a closed case–Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal, Our Lady of Guadalupe and others all show Mary crushing the serpent.

Finally, Pope Bl. Pius IX explained this relationship in his Apostolic Constitution definitively confirming the truth of the Immaculate Conception:

Hence, just as Christ, the Mediator between God and man, assumed human nature, blotted the handwriting of the decree that stood against us, and fastened it triumphantly to the cross, so the most holy Virgin, united with him by a most intimate and indissoluble bond, was, with him and through him, eternally at enmity with the evil serpent, and most completely triumphed over him, and thus crushed his head with her immaculate foot.

 

[chris_molter]

No, you’re wrong. Your everyday average Catholic is not catechized well enough to worship anybody.

ok, wait, no…

Actually, I’d say they worship themselves in the same way your typical nonreligious American does. Little difference between CINOs and secular folks.

 

[Peter_J]

I don’t worry one bit about devotion to Mary “replacing” devotion to God!

You don’t?

 

[AshleyBelle]

You don’t?

It's been my experience that devotion to Mary has only drawn me closer to my Lord... I don't understand the fear that it would begin replacing the devotion due only to Him... When I pray WITH Mary, I feel like I am drawing closely to the heart of Christ:) Can you explain why I should be worried?

 

[Student_4_Life]

This is a very interesting thread. However, I feel that there has been a brick wall that we are not getting past. The author of this thread showed concern for what they feel is an abundance of “worship” shown to Mary.
If I may, I’ll try to answer your question so that you see it from a Catholic’s perspective.

Do you have pictures of loved ones in your home? Is this because you worship those loved ones? No, of course not. Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. Jesus gave her to us as our mother as well. So, we honor her, not worship.

In fact, the english translation of worship lost much of it’s translation. It comes from the Old English word “weorthscipe”, which means “the condition of being worthy of honor, respect, or dignity”.

We are commanded by God to “honor thy Father and thy Mother”, if Catholic’s were to listen to those who chose to ignore Christ’s teachings and start their own church and make numerous changes to the bible, they would be just as lost as you are now.

My suggestion is to not only read the bible, but as much of the early Church Fathers writings as you can find. They are the people who were there in the first few centuries as Christianity grew. I think I would take my chances on what they were being taught and what they took for granted in thier writings instead of “Joe the Plumber” who decided to start his own church and interpret the bible how he sees it.

Just my opinion.

 

[Peter_J]

AshleyBelle,

Can I explain to you why you should be worried that Marian devotion could ever replace devotion for Christ? Well … probably not.

 

[AshleyBelle]

AshleyBelle,

Can I explain to you why you should be worried that Marian devotion could ever replace devotion for Christ? Well … probably not.

lol… I guess I could see it happening, if somehow we lost the meaning behind the Eucharist… But this is the CENTER and SUMMIT of our faith I don’t worry about it, because, at least for me, I know whom is worthy of all my worship, and I believe that when He said those who eat of His flesh and drink of His blood will have LIFE within them

Only then…if we really did loose Christ in the Eucharist, could I see Marian devotion “replacing” our devotion for Christ…but so long as we remember who is the SOURCE of our salvation, I can’t imagine that happening!

 

[Reuben_J]

My point was that even a drunk movie star turned director understood this consept.

You must mean your point was a drunk movie star turned director and sambos671 **did not **understand that concept.

The explanation on this by Catholic posters here is very clear. As a Catholic I feel like banging my head against the wall everytime when I see non-Catholics become so dumb-headed and unable to understand the explanation. But then that’s because I am a Catholic where my mind is already set to understand all this. But I guess it is different with non-Catholics. Anyway I hope you continue to listen and try to use all power of reasoning within you. Do not allow these words “… they have ears but do not hear, have eyes but do not see” become unfortunate description of yourself.

I think the issue is really simple - we are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind and strength. Then start from there. Watch out if anything you would do as a Christian would prevent you from achieving that great commandment. If it does, then maybe you can split hair and gnash you teeth arguing but if not then let focus on something that’s more important, and, yes, like trying to fullfil the great commandment in our lives.

My consern is that you everyday average catholic does worship Mary.

Don’t you think that you, like most non-Catholics, are barking on the wrong tree on this? I know some non-Catholics of certain denominations even consider that Catholics are not Christians and not saved because of this mischievous understanding that they thought is Catholicism.

NO, it is not. Period. Get over this and it will be better for your sanity and then you can move on discussing other things that may be of more important to your life as a good Christian.

Now, why do you worry about this, if the so-called Catholics whom you think are ‘worshipping’ Mary turn out to be more holy, more devoted and more charitable than you, who do not ‘worship’ Mary? Beat me.

Something to digest on. :console:

 

[eucharisteo]

I can agree Mary is a model of obedience. I have a problem with titles associated with Jesus being passed on to her.

Another man made rule… guess we all have authority to not accept truth.

You logic is very poor here. Doesn’t scripture say that with our baptism we share in Christ’s inheritance as prophet, priest and king? Don’t answer that…it’s rhetorical. When you read scripture you’ll find all kinds of metaphors… Many of them are shocking if you actually read the bible. I could never get a real answer for the difficult questions form solo scripturists [my new word]. I played the fundamentalist game for most of my life. Just because YOU don’t understand it doesn’t mean you have to condemn folks for your lack of gray matter.

 

[eucharisteo]

This show was about the communion of Saints and Mary Faith Factory.

This is what it said:

"Mary was appointed by God to defeat the devil. Also “Mary would crush the head of the serpent.”

Then they say they don’t teach idolitry.

But in Genesis it says:

And Romans says this

So who does what? I’m begining to think Mary slowly taking over Jesus’ titles in the RCC.

You couldn’t be a real Christian… because you use the term Protestant to identify yourself. It is obvious to me that if you are to use the bible for your sole sourse you should at least go by a biblical name. At least I did that for much of my life… I was not a denominational Christian. We were offended by anyone calling us a Protestant because we believe that we were the real Christians. At least that made sense. But then you pull this our of you duffle bag and claim Catholics are worshiping Mary. How dumb. Surely some get very affectionate about Mary. Why? She’s our mother too. You lack of understanding does not invoke your authority to be uncharitable and falsely accuse us. That’s not Christian.

 

[sambos671]

This is a very interesting thread. However, I feel that there has been a brick wall that we are not getting past. The author of this thread showed concern for what they feel is an abundance of “worship” shown to Mary.
If I may, I’ll try to answer your question so that you see it from a Catholic’s perspective.

Do you have pictures of loved ones in your home? Is this because you worship those loved ones? No, of course not. Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. Jesus gave her to us as our mother as well. So, we honor her, not worship.

In fact, the english translation of worship lost much of it’s translation. It comes from the Old English word “weorthscipe”, which means “the condition of being worthy of honor, respect, or dignity”.

We are commanded by God to “honor thy Father and thy Mother”, if Catholic’s were to listen to those who chose to ignore Christ’s teachings and start their own church and make numerous changes to the bible, they would be just as lost as you are now.

My suggestion is to not only read the bible, but as much of the early Church Fathers writings as you can find. They are the people who were there in the first few centuries as Christianity grew. I think I would take my chances on what they were being taught and what they took for granted in thier writings instead of “Joe the Plumber” who decided to start his own church and interpret the bible how he sees it.

Just my opinion.

I’ve heard that argument before. (I have read Scott Hahn’s book Rome Sweet Home, and Fudementalism / Catholicism by Keating, and Born Fundalmentalist Born Again Catholic by Curry) And as far as that argument goes I have no problem with it. What I’m speaking of and worring about is practical catholicism or enacted faith. Couple of points already mentioned here and not by me. Most Catholics aren’t “Catechized enough” to know better or Most Catholics are “like most non-religious americans” So you see the problem? And when you get emotion and unregulated Marian devotion (I’m being funny with that phrase but gets accross my point.) How long will it be before Catholics start saying Mary is homoosious? She is already (not in scripture) called the gate of heaven. The New ark of the covenant. This is the issue for me. This is the road block. I have no problem with the pray of the Hail Mary as far as it goes. But when prayers mention her as redemtrix or Co-redemtrix, I have a problem. Especially since that Catachism doesn’t teach that.

 

[sambos671]

You couldn’t be a real Christian… because you use the term Protestant to identify yourself. It is obvious to me that if you are to use the bible for your sole sourse you should at least go by a biblical name. At least I did that for much of my life… I was not a denominational Christian. We were offended by anyone calling us a Protestant because we believe that we were the real Christians. At least that made sense. But then you pull this our of you duffle bag and claim Catholics are worshiping Mary. How dumb. Surely some get very affectionate about Mary. Why? She’s our mother too. You lack of understanding does not invoke your authority to be uncharitable and falsely accuse us. That’s not Christian.

First of all you accuse me of not being Charatable and falsely accusing you. I’m reporting what I’ve heard discussed and reported to me by Catholics and compared it to the CCC. I chose the title Protestant because to Catholics I am. This is after all a Catholic forum. And the reformation is based on people who believed themselves to be real christians and protested the certain teachings and practices of the RCC. It is history. If you had read my post you will see that I am currently considering coming back to Rome but am held back by Marian practices more than doctrine. I have never once in my life ever said Catholics are not christian. I have said Many Catholics consern me because they are saying and doing things that I believe to be pegan. But I’ve also noted that the CCC doesn’t teach this. I’ve also noted that others (catholic btw) show many catholics don’t even know their own faith. So before I put my family at risk of nonsence doctrines espoused by Catholics that don’t even know their own faith I want to clear up some issues because in the end Jesus is the key. Knowledge of him and him crusified is what I want my kids to know. I don’t want them practicing La Purisima. I don’t want them visiting some guys house because the stain on his window is in the Shape of the Madonna. In the end I want them to have a Christ like life. And not believe the many inaccurate things Catholics say that just aren’t true. If these people were few and far between. That is something I can deal with. But it seems more prevelant than what people here are admitting to. Remember I was raised Catholic. I’ve had parishoners tell me Homosexuality is ok. Or that ghost exist and you can psychicly communicate with them. I can get my kids past the ghost and the Homosexuality thing (by teaching against it and show how the church does teach against it) but when it comes to confusing Marian Doctrine and devotion to idolatry that (not taught by the church but practiced anyway as in the examples I’ve given) it will be more difficult.

 

[Contarini]

This show was about the communion of Saints and Mary Faith Factory.

This is what it said:

"Mary was appointed by God to defeat the devil. Also “Mary would crush the head of the serpent.”

Then they say they don’t teach idolitry.

But in Genesis it says:

And Romans says this

So who does what? I’m begining to think Mary slowly taking over Jesus’ titles in the RCC.

“Slowly taking over”? Nonsense. This idea is rooted in the Latin translation of Genesis which has been in use since the fourth century. Why St. Jerome translated it that way I’m not sure (I don’t know about earlier Latin translations, and I don’t have my Septuagint in front of me). The Hebrew uses the masculine pronoun. But it certainly isn’t anything new.

You might try informing yourself a little before you go off on polemical rants.

Edwin

 

[sambos671]

“Slowly taking over”? Nonsense. This idea is rooted in the Latin translation of Genesis which has been in use since the fourth century. Why St. Jerome translated it that way I’m not sure (I don’t know about earlier Latin translations, and I don’t have my Septuagint in front of me). The Hebrew uses the masculine pronoun. But it certainly isn’t anything new.

You might try informing yourself a little before you go off on polemical rants.

Edwin

I thought forums were about polemical rants. I don’t have a Sacra Vulgata. I do have a LXX but I don’t read greek and must rely on the translation. I do have a NIV and a CAB and read from both those translations. Keep in mind I’ve never been to seminary.

 

[eucharisteo]

First of all you accuse me of not being Charatable and falsely accusing you. I’m reporting what I’ve heard discussed and reported to me by Catholics and compared it to the CCC. I chose the title Protestant because to Catholics I am. This is after all a Catholic forum. And the reformation is based on people who believed themselves to be real christians and protested the certain teachings and practices of the RCC. It is history. If you had read my post you will see that I am currently considering coming back to Rome but am held back by Marian practices more than doctrine. I have never once in my life ever said Catholics are not christian. I have said Many Catholics consern me because they are saying and doing things that I believe to be pegan. But I’ve also noted that the CCC doesn’t teach this. I’ve also noted that others (catholic btw) show many catholics don’t even know their own faith. So before I put my family at risk of nonsence doctrines espoused by Catholics that don’t even know their own faith I want to clear up some issues because in the end Jesus is the key. Knowledge of him and him crusified is what I want my kids to know. I don’t want them practicing La Purisima. I don’t want them visiting some guys house because the stain on his window is in the Shape of the Madonna. In the end I want them to have a Christ like life. And not believe the many inaccurate things Catholics say that just aren’t true. If these people were few and far between. That is something I can deal with. But it seems more prevelant than what people here are admitting to. Remember I was raised Catholic. I’ve had parishoners tell me Homosexuality is ok. Or that ghost exist and you can psychicly communicate with them. I can get my kids past the ghost and the Homosexuality thing (by teaching against it and show how the church does teach against it) but when it comes to confusing Marian Doctrine and devotion to idolatry that (not taught by the church but practiced anyway as in the examples I’ve given) it will be more difficult.

I have a very dry humor. I was joking around… I was a member of the Church of Christ… If you know what they believe, you’d understand my joking around. Now some of my jokes contain truths. But I was messing around. Sorry if I offended you. Google COC to Catholic and you’ll find a group of folks on there that joke just like me. It’s a COC thing I guess.

You’re right about the knuckleheaded Catholics…they’re everywhere. That is a problem with catechisis…an ancient term. Not to stick my neck out any further, but there are many bishops, priests and deacons to blame for the lack of solid Catholic education. But in reality we are responsible for ourselves. We seem to be a bunch of dumb sheep at times. This election is more evidence of how mean spirited God’s children can get. The issue I couldn’t get past is the history. I had lots of issues accepting Mary in the beginning. I wanted to become Orhtodox and then I discovered that they seek intercession from “dead people” too. As I studied I came to understand the theology behind it and it all just made really good sense. Primacy of the bishop of Rome was the other. Now that I’ve been on the other side in a Protestant faith I learned that people are people no matter where you go. I am Catholic because of the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist and Reconciliation. My wife converted too…her doing, not mine. Her daddy was an elder…what some would call a bishop.

Don’t take my jousting too seriously. I’m just playing around.

 

[eucharisteo]

Oh, I agree with you. Some Catholics get down right uncomfortably too close to seeming like they are worshiping Mary. However, I still don’t believe that most people actually are worshiping her. She is the Blessed Mother and she has a noble place in heaven. Even the Orthodox understand and accept the “Mother of God” theology. THEOTOKOS…God Bearer.

PAX

 

[sambos671]

I have a very dry humor. I was joking around… I was a member of the Church of Christ… If you know what they believe, you’d understand my joking around. Now some of my jokes contain truths. But I was messing around. Sorry if I offended you. Google COC to Catholic and you’ll find a group of folks on there that joke just like me. It’s a COC thing I guess.

You’re right about the knuckleheaded Catholics…they’re everywhere. That is a problem with catechisis…an ancient term. Not to stick my neck out any further, but there are many bishops, priests and deacons to blame for the lack of solid Catholic education. But in reality we are responsible for ourselves. We seem to be a bunch of dumb sheep at times. This election is more evidence of how mean spirited God’s children can get. The issue I couldn’t get past is the history. I had lots of issues accepting Mary in the beginning. I wanted to become Orhtodox and then I discovered that they seek intercession from “dead people” too. As I studied I came to understand the theology behind it and it all just made really good sense. Primacy of the bishop of Rome was the other. Now that I’ve been on the other side in a Protestant faith I learned that people are people no matter where you go. I am Catholic because of the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist and Reconciliation. My wife converted too…her doing, not mine. Her daddy was an elder…what some would call a bishop.

Don’t take my jousting too seriously. I’m just playing around.

I’m sorry I misunderstood you. I thought I had dry humor since I lived in England for 6 years. But you have me beat. I have no idea what COC teaches. Are they the ones that are against musical intruments? I go to a SBC now. I spent time with COG to learn about Penticostalism and found that is a dangerous christian trend and I hope it dies out soon because much of the Blab it and Grab it doctrine comes from there. (Name it and Claim it or Health and Wealth).