I jsut heard this on EWTN

[eucharisteo]

I’m sorry I misunderstood you. I thought I had dry humor since I lived in England for 6 years. But you have me beat. I have no idea what COC teaches. Are they the ones that are against musical intruments? I go to a SBC now. I spent time with COG to learn about Penticostalism and found that is a dangerous christian trend and I hope it dies out soon because much of the Blab it and Grab it doctrine comes from there. (Name it and Claim it or Health and Wealth).

Sam,
You have the COC pegged. Yes we rejected instrumental music. The singing is beautiful since you have to learn to play you God given instrument. But they also believe that you and me and anybody that is not a memberof “The Lord’s Church” is not saved. Well they teach that they and not us are members of the Lord’s Church. They got part of that right, but the rest just has to be overlooked.

I grew up in a SBC in the country. I went to mass on Saturday or Sunday evening and to bible class and worship on Sundays and Wednesdays. I even went to the Catholic Seminary and found myself totally confused at one point in my adulthood. I found my way back home almost by mistake…a fluke accidental reading of ancient Christian writings.

BTW: What you are speaking about is an ancient Christian heresy called “prosperity theology”. Boy I loathe that false doctrine. It misses the point about suffering completely. The bible tells us that we are blessed when we are persecuted for Christ.

Going to take a car back to CarMax and go get a new one…wife’s car broke down last night… …but we have it under control…I hope.

PAX

 

[mark_a]

My consern is that you everyday average catholic does worship Mary.

Speaking as an average Catholic, I for one always knew the difference between Mary and God, even though I was poorly catechised.

I would love it if you guys would stop putting words in our mouths, stop obcessing about Mary and confession, and study the moral teachings of the Catholic Church.

And you could start now by clicking the link in my signature.

Have a nice day.

 

[notsmart]

I have never seen anyone worshiping mary at the mass so far. And I go to the grey hair daily crowd with a few that carry the Rosary in with them and stay later to pray it. I bet this could vary by culture and education in the faith.
It should not bother you that people can make mistakes. What should help you feel peace is the catholic church does not condone worship of anyone but God alone. People will do screwy things. But, I am sure you saw that where you were in the past.

 

[SimonArizona]

I am a believer that many Catholics overstate and over-glorify Mary. While she has done great things in my life, there is going too far. Mary’s purpose is to bring the world into the presence of her Son. I doubt she wants to be excessively glorified by us.

 

[notsmart]

I am a believer that many Catholics overstate and over-glorify Mary. While she has done great things in my life, there is going too far. Mary’s purpose is to bring the world into the presence of her Son. I doubt she wants to be excessively glorified by us.

I personally think in my area, there are a TON of OLG fans that are beyond Going too far. They are downright unaware of what is appropriate and what is absolutely sick.
Again, its a cultural thing and utter lack of formation in faith.

 

[abucs]

And I will put emnity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush ** your head,
and you will strike his heel."

I am not a Hebrew scholar but i remember hearing someone who claimed to know ancient Hebrew say the following :

The literal translation would be

And i will put emnity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers,
(the former) will crush your head,
and you will strike at (the former’s) heel.

i.e. in the ancient Hebrew the words and way of saying things were different and when you translate into a new language you either have to make the text virtually unreadable or take your best guess with a lot of the language.

At face value the question would be - is ‘the former’ referring to the woman or her offspring. Both appear formerly in the text.

It was explained that while ‘her offspring’ was written in the plural both ‘the woman’ and ‘the former’ were written in the singular.

This would suggest that ‘the former’ would be associated more with the woman than her offspring and that the correct translation would be she/her.

Of course in different modern day translations of many verses, the words (and thus meanings) differ depending on who does the translation.

I repeat - i’m not an ancient Hebrew scholar, but just repeating what i heard.**

 

[sambos671]

Speaking as an average Catholic, I for one always knew the difference between Mary and God, even though I was poorly catechised.

I would love it if you guys would stop putting words in our mouths, stop obcessing about Mary and confession, and study the moral teachings of the Catholic Church.

And you could start now by clicking the link in my signature.

Have a nice day.

I have no problem with confession. I do have a problem with Mariology by practice more so then by teaching. And I have always admired the moral stance of the church even though through out history the practitioners and clergy at times didn’t follow their own teaching. (I’m not saying there wern’t one who did I’m talking about the overall trends). Even though I’m not currently catholic I agree with its views on contraception and put my trust in God for my family size as well as practice self discipline.

 

[mark_a]

I have no problem with confession. I do have a problem with Mariology by practice more so then by teaching.

Keep in mind that the Church is a teaching office and as sad as it may be, the Church can’t keep tabs on every individual’s practice.

Even though I’m not currently catholic I agree with its views on contraception and put my trust in God for my family size as well as practice self discipline.

There are many of us who have come to understand that the Church’s unwavering position on moral issue of contraception is the “slam dunk” that the rest of her theological positions are correct.

Acceptance of Marian dogma is a piece of cake compared to acceptance of the Church’s teachings about contraception. Just ask the vast majority of Catholics who contracept.

 

[sambos671]

Keep in mind that the Church is a teaching office and as sad as it may be, the Church can’t keep tabs on every individual’s practice.

There are many of us who have come to understand that the Church’s unwavering position on moral issue of contraception is the “slam dunk” that the rest of her theological positions are correct.

Acceptance of Marian dogma is a piece of cake compared to acceptance of the Church’s teachings about contraception. Just ask the vast majority of Catholics who contracept.

I guess that is true. I like what I heard about the Priest in SC who will not give communion to people who voted for Obama. Now thats faith in action!
I don’t know Marian doctrine in practice is very difficult for me to countenance. I’ll keep praying.

 

[adstrinity]

I guess that is true. I like what I heard about the Priest in SC who will not give communion to people who voted for Obama. Now thats faith in action!
I don’t know Marian doctrine in practice is very difficult for me to countenance. I’ll keep praying.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it seems like an abominal practice because Protestantism post 1800 brainwashes against it like a cult. For hundreds of years, and the earliest Christianity, and The Orthodox love and venerate Mary, and it takes nothing away from Jesus or the Trinity. Is there any one doctrine you take issue with or is it all four?

 

[sambos671]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it seems like an abominal practice because Protestantism post 1800 brainwashes against it like a cult. For hundreds of years, and the earliest Christianity, and The Orthodox love and venerate Mary, and it takes nothing away from Jesus or the Trinity. Is there any one doctrine you take issue with or is it all four?

My primary issue with Mariology is it in practice rather than the teaching of it. Sorry. Many Catholics (who know little of their faith) can tell me all about Mary. It really is for some idolatry despite what is said here.

As far as doctrine I can buy immaculate conseption with regard to the incarnation and having a holy vessel. As long as immaculate conseption doesn’t equate with deity (again despite what is asserted here there is marian worship I’ve witnessed it having been raised catholic). I can even believe assumption as a promised already recieved by Mary that we awaite. Orthodox believe something similarily. The fact is factually apart from tradition no one really knows. I can believe mediatrix as long as it doesn’t differ from another christian mediating on behalf of another but to elevate it I have issue with. Co-redemtrix isn’t taught by the church but I would have a problem for what it implies.

 

[mark_a]

Many Catholics (

who know little of their faith

It really is for some idolatry despite what is said here.

I find the above two statements contradictory, though.

I can even believe assumption as a promised already recieved by Mary that we awaite. Orthodox believe something similarily. The fact is factually apart from tradition no one really knows.

We don’t have her bones. We don’t have Jesus’ bones. We have all the apostles bones.

 

[sambos671]

I find the above two statements contradictory, though.

We don’t have her bones. We don’t have Jesus’ bones. We have all the apostles bones.

Not contradictory if you take it in context. When I said they can tell you all about Mary it has nothing to do with accuracy or historical fact or even the Churches view. But a Mythos they all follow. The fact is they can tell me all about the Mythos of Mary (which I consider idolatry) but they know little about Christianity or Catholicism. For instance. They will tell me about all the miracles and how Mary has guided them and how Mary has answered their prayer and if you do such and such she is sure to answer. Then go and vote for Obama and then recieve the Eucharist.

The apostles bones? Some may be real but there was a lot of nonsense in the middle ages. So I’m wondering how accurate that is? I inacurately quote a line from the movie Luther which is accurately showing a problem of the period. “I heard one say they can sell me the nails that were used on the cross. If one third of the claims were true we could shoe all the horses of saxony!” Yeah. A lot of this stuff happened at that time period.

 

[Eucharisted]

I wonder what our Orthodox brethern have to say about Genesis 3:15?

 

[Peter_J]

The apostles bones? Some may be real but there was a lot of nonsense in the middle ages. So I’m wondering how accurate that is? I inacurately quote a line from the movie Luther which is accurately showing a problem of the period. “I heard one say they can sell me the nails that were used on the cross. If one third of the claims were true we could shoe all the horses of saxony!” Yeah. A lot of this stuff happened at that time period.

I find it interesting that Christ had 12 Apostles, and 16 of them are buried in Germany.

 

[adstrinity]

I find it interesting that Christ had 12 Apostles, and 16 of them are buried in Germany.

… IT’S A MIRACLE!! Also, the Catholics who love the Virgin and recieve the Eucharist are not the same Catholics who voted Obama.

 

[flameburns623]

Not contradictory if you take it in context. When I said they can tell you all about Mary it has nothing to do with accuracy or historical fact or even the Churches view. But a Mythos they all follow. The fact is they can tell me all about the Mythos of Mary (which I consider idolatry) but they know little about Christianity or Catholicism. For instance. They will tell me about all the miracles and how Mary has guided them and how Mary has answered their prayer and if you do such and such she is sure to answer. Then go and vote for Obama and then recieve the Eucharist.

The apostles bones? Some may be real but there was a lot of nonsense in the middle ages. So I’m wondering how accurate that is? I inacurately quote a line from the movie Luther which is accurately showing a problem of the period. “I heard one say they can sell me the nails that were used on the cross. If one third of the claims were true we could shoe all the horses of saxony!” Yeah. A lot of this stuff happened at that time period.

Yes there are clear excesses and forgeries extant. On the other hand, I think the bones of St. Peter are well-attested to as being at least from the same period as that Apostle. The point is that there are reports, going back to time immemorial, that various churches or individuals are in possession of the bones of this-or-that Apostle, or at least of their tombs. No authenticated claim exists going back prior to the Middle Ages of the bones of Christ or of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Remember that Constantine’s wife was very interested in establishing the exact location of Christ’s tomb, His cross, and so forth–but to my knowledge, never claimed to have found the bones of Mary.
Peter J.:

I find it interesting that Christ had 12 Apostles, and 16 of them are buried in Germany.

I see you’ve read Mark Twain. Allowing for false claims and forgeries–have you accounted for the fact that in some cases, an Apostle’s head might be in one tomb, the rest of his corpse in another, and that even the remnants of his burial cothing might be in yet another place. It was not uncommon to disinter a body, remove the oriignal fragments of burial clothing, and then to wrap the body in a new burial shroud. This was reportedly done with the bones of St. Peter, as I recollect. In such a case, the old burial clothing would itself become a relic of the Saint.

Ultimately no one is obliged to receive any paritcular relic as absolutely genuine, though they should be respectful of the faith of those who do so receive it. Just as no one is required to belive in any of the apparitions or messages of saints or other Heavenly messengers who purportedly have spoken through the ages. If such things promote faith or piety for you, and they have been approved by the Church as containing nothing contrary to the Deposit of Faith, then you are welcome to receive them. Otherwise–not.

Hope this helps!