I just can't believe in god

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To Lisa44

Many, many people go through long, dark periods of doubt and struggle. You, obviously, have never done so – up to this point at least. You have been very blessed. Never be so arrogant as to assume it cannot happen to you. And if it ever does, God willing, you will find many people who are willing to reach out and be supportive.
 
I haven’t read all the responses to this posting because there are so many, so others may have covered it, but there is concrete “proof” and logic that God exists and it is here with us. I am a computer scientist so I like rational explanations and things laid out for me so I can order them properly in my mind, so here’s what I have…

The first is that we know that ourselves, our world and our universe exist. If you think about it, it had to start with something. You might say, well yes, but it started with the “big bang” and then we’d reply, but that matter had to come from somewhere or some time and something had to cause the explosion. You might say that there was another universe that created the initial conditions for the big bang, and again we’d say that something must have created that previous universe…etc. etc. ad nauseum. You follow that all the way back, and the only answer is that there must be something eternal and out of time that set all of the creation in motion. The proof is our universe’s very existence. Okay, I can believe maybe our universe originated from somewhere else, but ultimately there must be something eternal or it couldn’t have started at all.

Then, for your scientific evidence, you can look at our current understanding of the universe. The most popular theory is the “Big Bang” theory where there was an initial condition and all our matter basically exploded from it - sounds an awful like our creation account in Genesis.

If you read recent string theory (I’m no expert, but this is from my very cursory reading about it), it sounds amazingly consistent with our faith in God. Things don’t exist in the 4 dimensions with which we are familiar (3 dimensions and time), but in 11. Energy can move across the dimensions. and is stronger in some dimensions than others. Science continues to discover new things and the more they discover, the more it is consistent with our belief in the Lord and creation.

When I have questioned the existence of God (which I personally think is healthy because you need to question things in order to sort them out for yourself), you can use pure logic to determine that there must be a creator because our universe exists. Once you get to that point, prayer will take you the rest of the way. Even with my scientific bent, the Lord has graced me with a loving and personal relationship in addition to my “logical” belief, but it has taken years. Don’t give up. He will bless you too when you persist in prayer.

God is Great!
 
Blessings to all who have written their thoughts. I’m reading your responses. Trying to open this hardened heart. Your words have given me much to think about and your personal witness means the most to me.
And Blessings to you, JustArmy. I hope you are able to go to Church tomorrow.

It just occurred to me that one practice that has helped me a lot to work things through is to pray the Rosary every day. Not just a recitation while meditating on the Mystery for each decade, but more of an applied method that a priest I read a long time ago taught. For each decade, for the first three beads, before reciting the Hail Marys, think of a world problem related to the Mystery, and say a prayer for that. Then say the Hail Marys. For the next three, think of a someone you know where you wish something related to the Mystery, and for the last 4 relate the Mystery to your own life situation and say a short prayer for that. If there is enough in your mind, each bead can be so dedicated – or group it differently – whatever is appropriate for you at that particular time — it adds a great deal of depth and takes us both out of ourselves and within ourselves. Sometimes, just picture in your mind the related problems or people as you pray the Hail Marys.

If time or concentration is a factor, I sometimes break up the Rosary, and pray a decade at a time throughout the day.
 
There is an aspect to the original statement “I just can’t believe in god” that I haven’t noticed anyone else address.

The person questioning the existence of God must also discern what exactly it is they are questioning. If you dig deep and analyze it thoroughly you’ll find that what you are really questioning is not God, but one or another humanly accepted description/speculation of God. This may be your own belief, or a pre-packaged one brought to you by one church or religion or “holy scripture” or charismatic teacher or another.

Regardless of whether you are inclined, or even passionately driven, to prove either God’s existence or non-existence, doesn’t matter. If you are seriously seeking Truth, you must confront and question all beliefs.

The real challenging part is, how do you know if your conclusions arrived at from all this questioning don’t just bring you right back to belief in a description or interpretation of God (or “No-God” for that matter)?

Perhaps the key is to not come to any conclusion whatsoever and not to stop the query at all, but continue to persist until (or even beyond) the point of physical death.

This, of course, is far too rigorous a spiritual path for most people.

Therefore, may you find a belief that gives you spiritual comfort and security, compels you to live a life exemplary of goodness while allowing others to do the same - regardless of which particular belief or non-belief gives them a similar spiritual comfort and compels them to do the same for you.
 
You can tell I don’t have a close family relationship or close friends - I’m sharing my life story with strangers.
Just Army. Man can I relate to you. I turn 50 in 2 days. I’m divorced and live alone. I think isolation is very common for older males. Loneliness is a terrible cross to bear.

5 years ago I almost died from an addiction to prescription drugs. It took a long, long time to recover from that, and I still don’t feel like I did before I was placed on all those pills. There has been a fundamental change in me since that experience. I used to be very social but not anymore.

I hated having free time after work, because of the loneliness. The one thing that really, really helped me was out of necessity, I took a second job doing home care. I take care of 2 different guys in my free time. Nothing has helped me more than that. Now I see God’s hand in directing me there. That has helped depression and loneliness more than anything else. It has become a very important part of my relationship with God because I can love Him by helping these guys.

Don’t despair, everyones faith waxes and wains at different times in life. Just remember that we have an extremely loving and merciful God who acutely feels your pain and is walking through it with you.

He understands your spiritual paralysis. Please don’t be afraid to ask Him for help through this, and don’t be afraid to get some counseling.
 
To Lisa44

Many, many people go through long, dark periods of doubt and struggle. You, obviously, have never done so – up to this point at least. You have been very blessed. Never be so arrogant as to assume it cannot happen to you. And if it ever does, God willing, you will find many people who are willing to reach out and be supportive.
???so by struggle you mean what? Casting dispersions on believers is not a struggle, it is arrogance.
To truely struggle is to feel so low and humble that even a tiny bug with a sliver of hope is infinitately greater than you are.

I can tell you are definately not psychic because you cannot read me.

Peace be with you! And good luck with everything.
 
I wish people would read past the first page…That intial post is FAR from where I am now…
Nowhere did I say it was rude for answering my initial question…I just brought up the fact that there are a lot of great replies in the thread and it would behoove you to go through and check them all out…No need for sarcasm.
You are an ungrateful person. Instead of thanking people for responding, you admonish them for not realizing that you are “FAR” from the initial post.

I think you and I shall avoid each other on this board from now on. I am not appreciating you in any way or form.
You denigrate believers and yet still people respond warmly to you. And then you insult them for not having followed all of the posts in this thread to your satisfaction.

You are an ungrateful thing.
 
You are an ungrateful person. Instead of thanking people for responding, you admonish them for not realizing that you are “FAR” from the initial post.

I think you and I shall avoid each other on this board from now on. I am not appreciating you in any way or form.
You denigrate believers and yet still people respond warmly to you. And then you insult them for not having followed all of the posts in this thread to your satisfaction.

You are an ungrateful thing.
Goodness, he was just trying to explain that since the initial post, he has had a change of heart and is starting RCIA. I don’t blame him for wanting to point that out, its a wonderful thing!
 
Goodness, he was just trying to explain that since the initial post, he has had a change of heart and is starting RCIA. I don’t blame him for wanting to point that out, its a wonderful thing!
He had RCIA in the works before he wrote the OP, per his posting history. Still hoping he’ll respond to my query a few pages back and clarify what he has meant by his OP, since for the last few months he has been posting very enthusiastically about the RCC and saying that he was going to be converting. Seems very at-odds with his OP.
 
He had RCIA in the works before he wrote the OP, per his posting history. Still hoping he’ll respond to my query a few pages back and clarify what he has meant by his OP, since for the last few months he has been posting very enthusiastically about the RCC and saying that he was going to be converting. Seems very at-odds with his OP.
At the time of my original post, I was really going through a battle of doubt and I was falling bigtime…My doubts kept on increasing more and more with each passing day…I thought there was no way it would turn around…Then the strangest thing happened…I was informed of this person on YouTube who was actually desecrating the Host in the most disgusting of ways…Then some atheist wrote a comment that really made me think…He wanted to know why it upset me so much since it was just a “cracker.” Thats when it all started to turn around for me…It upset me because deep down, in my heart of hearts, I knew that the Real Presence existed in the Holy Eucharist and that I did believe in Jesus Christ! Its amazing how God can turn something so ugly into something so beautiful. I hope that clarifies where I was at and where I am now. God bless.

-Curtis
 
You are an ungrateful person. Instead of thanking people for responding, you admonish them for not realizing that you are “FAR” from the initial post.

I think you and I shall avoid each other on this board from now on. I am not appreciating you in any way or form.
You denigrate believers and yet still people respond warmly to you. And then you insult them for not having followed all of the posts in this thread to your satisfaction.

You are an ungrateful thing.
It seems you didnt respond to all of the post…This is the complete post…

I wish people would read past the first page…That intial post is FAR from where I am now…Take care and hopefully all of you will read most of the replies…This thread is full of wonderful stories of others reaching out to find God as well. I think it would be worth the read.

If it wasnt apparent, I was thanking those that responded and was asking others to read about their wonderful stories regarding their faith as well. Also, just a couple pages back in post 164, I thanked the forum once again for responding in such great numbers as well. I am truly thankful for all of these replies that I have gotten and all of the great (name removed by moderator)ut…I just dont get why you must be so negative. All I’ve done is try to earnestly seek God and He found me amidst all the muck that was going on in my life and I have been trying to pass my story along and praising God for it. I just dont get why youre trying to put a negative spin on it all. God bless you though and hopefully this post will clear up any misunderstandings we have had.

-Curtis
 
At the time of my original post, I was really going through a battle of doubt and I was falling bigtime…My doubts kept on increasing more and more with each passing day…I thought there was no way it would turn around…Then the strangest thing happened…I was informed of this person on YouTube who was actually desecrating the Host in the most disgusting of ways…Then some atheist wrote a comment that really made me think…He wanted to know why it upset me so much since it was just a “cracker.” Thats when it all started to turn around for me…It upset me because deep down, in my heart of hearts, I knew that the Real Presence existed in the Holy Eucharist and that I did believe in Jesus Christ! Its amazing how God can turn something so ugly into something so beautiful. I hope that clarifies where I was at and where I am now. God bless.

-Curtis
Ok… the original post sounded like you were in a serious crisis of faith (in wondering if there was even any god at all), that had been going on for the last 10 years.
 
I have tried so hard over the past ten years to believe in god; specifically the christian god but I just can’t. To believe in something, I need to be able to verify it with at least one of the five senses that god supposedly blessed us with and/or indisputable archeological/historical evidence.

I can’t just believe in something because everybody around me does; I am just not wired that way. I would love to believe and have faith in god but no evidence points in that direction.

I have looked at previous answers here on the boards so please don’t use the “how do you know that you exist?” argument. I guess if blind faith is what it takes to be saved and the christian god exists, I’ll just be outta luck. There, however, is no proof that I have ever seen for the existance of god, satan, heaven, hell, or anything else of that nature.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence and that is completely lacking in my opinion. I hope not too many people jump all over at once for this post. Take care.

-Curtis
Even Mother Theresa struggled with this. To my way of thinking, the idea that there is no God… makes no sense when I look at the world and all of the creatures including ourselves. Also, the fact that the incredibly polar opposites… GOOD and EVIL exist just reinforces the idea that God and Satan probably exist. Most of all, the teachings of the Catholic Church, while they are hard to abide by, make pretty darn good sense.

None of us can know for sure that God exists, but that is what “faith” is all about. “Faith” by definition is an intellectual CHOICE to believe without actually seeing.

Also, if God doesn’t exist, then all religion is one big hoax. No hoax has ever even come close to lasting this long!

God and Satan are both infinitely smarter and more powerful than us. I think that one of Satan’s most powerful weapons is making people believe that HE doesn’t exist!😃

Try this: Say this quietly in your mind once a day… every day… “God, if you are out there, please hear my prayer that I can resolve to make the choice to know you better and seek your will for my life”.

If God doesn’t exist, then no harm was done. But my prediction is that you will be blessed with a strong faith and an incredibly fulfilling life! Peace~ 😃
 
Even Mother Theresa struggled with this.
MM3861,
I believe that Mother Theresa’s struggle was about whether or not God cared about her work, about His presence in her life, NOT about the existence of God.
Those are two vastly different subjects.

Curtis has traveled a difficult road and made great progress. He is to be congratulated not only for his spiritual progress but also for the patient and loving way he has responded to all suggestions and criticisms, some of which were pretty un-Christ like.

Jer
 
If you read recent string theory (I’m no expert, but this is from my very cursory reading about it), it sounds amazingly consistent with our faith in God. Things don’t exist in the 4 dimensions with which we are familiar (3 dimensions and time), but in 11. Energy can move across the dimensions. and is stronger in some dimensions than others. Science continues to discover new things and the more they discover, the more it is consistent with our belief in the Lord and creation.
… What? How is string theory’s predictions of multiple extra dimensions something that’s predicted at all in scripture? I must have missed that reading in school.

In actuality, as science grows in understanding of the Universe, it’s *diminished *the scriptural view. For example, take the creation of the world - the Bible takes the position that the world is created in 6 days and that God just kinda plopped the animals down in there. Human beings were created in twos at first. Science, of course, has an evolutionary perspective and totally rejects the idea that some divine being just plopped all the animals down. Scripture constantly references the earth as being flat (i.e., saying the world has “corners”) - science, of course, has led to realization that the world is round. Take mental illness. In the Bible, they’re said to be possessed by demons. Now, of course, we have a better understanding of the brain (as an organ in our skull) and the problems that can afflict it - and they’re certainly not demonic in origin.

There are a ton of other examples I could point out, but the simple fact remains: Science in no way validates religious claims.
Then, for your scientific evidence, you can look at our current understanding of the universe. The most popular theory is the “Big Bang” theory where there was an initial condition and all our matter basically exploded from it - sounds an awful like our creation account in Genesis.
This is also totally bogus.

“In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters. Then God said, ‘Let there be light,’ and there was light. God saw how good the light was. God then separated the light from the darkness. God called the light ‘day,’ and the darkness he called ‘night.’ Thus evening came, and morning followed–the first day.”

You’re saying that the above quote, which views “creation” as the earth as a large blank void, in which God makes light and then starts the Day/Night cycle - somehow resembles the idea that the universe expanded from an extremely dense and hot state and continues to expand today?

The only people who would believe that are those who are already pre-disposed to believe in Christianity, probably from upbringing. It’s ridiculous.
 
Even Mother Theresa struggled with this. To my way of thinking, the idea that there is no God… makes no sense when I look at the world and all of the creatures including ourselves.
Really? Scientists have developed a much better theory than yours for how all the animals developed to where we are now. Your theory: “God did it.” It is simplistic and largely based on a lack of understanding. You see something you don’t understand - like how animals got there - and assume that some divine super-powerful being created them.
Also, the fact that the incredibly polar opposites… GOOD and EVIL exist just reinforces the idea that God and Satan probably exist. Most of all, the teachings of the Catholic Church, while they are hard to abide by, make pretty darn good sense.
Man’s notion of good and evil, too, has a simple, natural explanation. Being “good” is advantageous to the continuance of the species. Cooperation, charity, and love towards fellow human beings are very good attributes for the survival of our particular species - which has a big brain and special organs for complex thought and communication. On the contrary, killing other humans, stealing, and hatred are very bad attributes for survival. It might work well for solitary animals like lizards or spiders - but for complex social animals, “good” and “evil” have totally natural causes.

Only those who are pre-disposed to believe, probably through being raised in a religious household, would be persuaded by this argument.
Also, if God doesn’t exist, then all religion is one big hoax. No hoax has ever even come close to lasting this long!
Really? What about the failed ideas of racism and sexism? Those ideas were held just as strongly as religious faith throughout the years. Besides, you’re assuming that we think religion is a “hoax” - not necessarily. Religious belief may have come about naturally - but that doesn’t mean it’s right.
None of us can know for sure that God exists, but that is what “faith” is all about. “Faith” by definition is an intellectual CHOICE to believe without actually seeing.
This is a total cop-out. You’re basically saying that we ought to believe in something “just cuz.” Because you said so? Okay, if this is a valid way of thinking - doesn’t this make faith in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Mormanism, or any other of the countless other religions out there, equally valid? Why not believe in all of them, if having “faith” is something that should be encouraged?

I suggest that the kind of faith you’re talking about is totaly bankrupt and should be completely tossed out. Belief in unbelievably extreme claims without evidence - in any socially unpopular belief - would be viewed as a mental illness. I could “just believe” that I’m Elvis Presley. It would have just as much validity as your belief in Catholicism. I have just about the same evidence as you do. Yet, one is viewed as a delusion and the other is not. It’s ridiculous. Faith is ridiculous.

And that brings me to another point - Christians (and the Bible they believe in) only encourage “faith” because there simply is a huge lack of evidence. You don’t see scientists holding hands and assuring eachother that Gravity really exists. “Oh, that we may have faith - that what goes up, must come down. Oh, we believe it my brothers and sisters. Don’t shake in your faith!” Why not? Because it’s based on an idea that’s actually grounded on strong evidence. “Faith” is only needed when that evidence isn’t there.

Faith is dishonestly. It’s choosing to agree with some extreme statement - when you know darn well the evidence is extremely thin.
God and Satan are both infinitely smarter and more powerful than us. I think that one of Satan’s most powerful weapons is making people believe that HE doesn’t exist!😃
Ah… Of course. The satan card. If I can’t convince someone that God exists with horribly flimsy arguements, or try to appeal to the idea of “faith” (a.k.a., believing in something when you know darn well it probably ain’t so), you appeal to fear of demonic influence and the hell it represents. “You better not disbelieve - it’s probably the Evil One working on you - and you know what happens to those who follow Satan.” It’s the perfect lock for a mind venturing into freethought. Make him believe it’s not his own curiosity - make him believe it’s a demonic super-power doing it. This is even more intellectually bankrupt than appealing to “faith.”
Try this: Say this quietly in your mind once a day… every day… “God, if you are out there, please hear my prayer that I can resolve to make the choice to know you better and seek your will for my life”.
If God doesn’t exist, then no harm was done. But my prediction is that you will be blessed with a strong faith and an incredibly fulfilling life! Peace~ 😃
Of course that’s your prediction. You’re asking someone to pray to a God they don’t believe exists. You’re asking them to have faith - in order to have faith! That’s begging the question. It’s like you’re saying, “Hey, just believe in God. I have a feeling that you’ll believe in God. ;)” It’s completely bogus.

Besides, hundreds of thousands of atheists have done just that - and guess what? Nothing happened. No God showed up. But, of course, you’re not going to value those non-theistic experiences. Why? Well you’ve got your firm faith, which is just another way of saying that you *already *believe when the evidence is super thin, and you’ve got your fear of Satan. Both of those will keep you from taking an atheist’s lack-of-God-experience at his word. You’ll say he’s ignoring the call of God, or come up with some other explanation - but the reason isn’t logical - it’s faith and fear.

Faith and fear: The backbone of God-belief. It’s flimsy and bankrupt. I’m glad that more of us are starting to wake up.
 
The five senses…you know i dont think that there is a manual to all the different ways we as humans feel. Use the emotion that has been given to you. The feeling of right and wrong. The good feeling that comes with helping people. Because you know its right, it helps humanity. but…why do you feel that way? because god is working through us all. when you do something right, you see a piece of heaven. Look at the faith of the saints. They spent there entire life doing gods work. They did not require someone to tell them that god is there, (at least not after they made the decision to serve god) they just knew. And even after death, they are pure and holy. The bodies of the saints are even holy. There are many that have not decomposed. look it up on youtube. i used to be like you. i took everything with a scientific view. Then i saw with my heart. i saw love. and god is love.
 
Something cannot come from nothing. Simple fact in regards to science.

Atheists bare the burden of proof (or disproof) here. It’s impossible to disprove God. It would take an absolute truth to do so, but… how can truth disprove itself? Truth is God afterall.

At any rate, Atheism, when wielded by rather intelligent person, can offer very good arguements against religion and faith. But in the end, it takes a leap of FAITH to be an Atheist because God cannot be disproved. Because of this, Atheism is self-refuting. What’s left is Agnosticism, and then the final understanding of Truth: God exists.

I was an Atheist for 23 years. I read a few philosophical documents about souls and the existence of God but I scoffed at them. After all, my 23 years of zero scholarly study and a few joints obviously made me more intelligent than Descartes. Right? Wrong. I was blind. I also read bits and pieces of Genesis while tainted with this arrogance. Because of my bias, I disagreed with Genesis before I even picked it up.

Moving on, as a Catholic (or soon to be Catholic, rather), I don’t take Genesis from a literalist point of view in that the words mean exactly what they say on a surface level. No, I don’t take it that way. If I did, then I’d have to say that the Sun doesn’t give light. That’s absurd. I take it as a story of religious truth, and not scientific fact. God created the universe from nothing, and created it for the purpose of man and man’s journey of faith.

The further scientists go into the world of Physics the more they write and publish about design. Whether they give credence to any specific creator, or follow any certain religion, is not their point. They write about how life itself is absolutely too lucky to actually exist to be luck. The fact that if any particle were different in the smallest way, if gravity was different in the smallest way, and if the Earth was closer or further from the Sun in the smallest way, we would not exist.

I remember reading something about Einstein finding faith or giving credit to a creator after all of his work in Physics, dealing with Relativity.

I was once an Atheist, and then an Agnostic. My loved ones constantly tried to tell me the Truth but I scoffed at them. I understand what it means to be happy now that I’ve found faith. I see how terrible I was, and how beautiful I can be in this faith.
You Atheists, you are in my prayers every night.
 
I’ll invite a few questions:

Is 2+2 always 4?

Another:

What is “goodness,” and where does it come from?" (sorry that’s a two-parter 🙂 )

I’ve noticed just from a quick glance that this thread is getting a bit… uncharitable. Let’s have a pleasant discussion. As little emotion as possible.
 
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