I just...dont care

[slh3016]

I think you are creating a dichotomy where none exists, Polluted.

The ever-present Catholic both/and is at play here.

We need apologetics. It’s very important to have a reason for our hope…and to be able to articulate it in a compelling way.

We need faith.

As Peter Kreeft says: "Most of us know that our heart is our center, not our head. But apologetics gets at the heart through the head. The head is important precisely because it is a gate to the heart. We can love only what we know.”

(And it is ONLY through my love of apologetics that I would know the above quote from Kreeft…and thus am able to articulate it here.)

#thanksbetoGodforapologetics

Brilliantly stated!

Yes, one must have faith and trust but you must also have solid reasoning and foundation for our faith. If we can’t articulate it when asked for the reason we believe, we do a disservice to our faith, our Church, and our Lord.

It doesn’t have to be complicated. Just keep a handy little slip of paper with apologetic resources. If someone asks you why you are Catholic or question a Catholic belief, give them your slip of paper or offer to email/send them resources.

 

[PRmerger]

Brilliantly stated!

:curtsey:

Yes, one must have faith and trust but you must also have solid reasoning and foundation for our faith. If we can’t articulate it when asked for the reason we believe, we do a disservice to our faith, our Church, and our Lord.

It doesn’t have to be complicated. Just keep a handy little slip of paper with apologetic resources. If someone asks you why you are Catholic or question a Catholic belief, give them your slip of paper or offer to email/send them resources.

Egg-zactly!

 

[Polluted]

Brilliantly stated!

Yes, one must have faith and trust but you must also have solid reasoning and foundation for our faith. If we can’t articulate it when asked for the reason we believe, we do a disservice to our faith, our Church, and our Lord.

It doesn’t have to be complicated. Just keep a handy little slip of paper with apologetic resources. If someone asks you why you are Catholic or question a Catholic belief, give them your slip of paper or offer to email/send them resources.

I am still waiting for someone to ask what it is I believe so I can proceed to recite the Nicene creed

 

[PRmerger]

I am still waiting for someone to ask what it is I believe so I can proceed to recite the Nicene creed

And what would you say when asked, “Why do you believe that there is just one God?”

 

[Polluted]

And what would you say when asked, “Why do you believe that there is just one God?”

I’d say…“I’ve got a veerrryy good feeling about this” with my eyes squinted a little while nodding with a smirk on my face like Abraham in the movie Year One

 

[PRmerger]

I’d say…“I’ve got a veerrryy good feeling about this” with my eyes squinted a little while nodding with a smirk on my face like Abraham in the movie Year One

I am sorry, Polluted, but this is exactly what is wrong with modern Catholics today.

:sad_yes:

This is why, sadly, the 2nd largest denomination of Christians is “ex-Catholics”.
content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1716987,00.html

(And I concede that not having an answer as to this particular question doesn’t address the fact that most ex-Catholics also believe there’s just 1 God…it’s simply an articulation as to why Catholics leave the Church: because current Catholics can’t provide worthy apologia to questions that are validly posed to them.)

 

[Polluted]

I am sorry, Polluted, but this is exactly what is wrong with modern Catholics today.

:sad_yes:

This is why, sadly, the 2nd largest denomination of Christians is “ex-Catholics”.

(And I concede that not having an answer as to this particular question doesn’t address the fact that most ex-Catholics also believe there’s just 1 God…it’s simply an articulation as to why Catholics leave the Church: because current Catholics can’t provide worthy apologia to questions that are validly posed to them.)

I don’t think that’s the reason. Things like divorce and birth control probably push that allot further. What is it someone CAN say to a question like that. Because the Bible says so? Because the Church says so? Give them some bastardized mixture of evolution and the genius of God’s plan?

I’m not buying it. So many people want an answer today, a sign, proof, etc. How the hell can I give it to them? If they are that spiritually numb to where they can not or WILL not acknowledge God’s hand in their own life, how am I going to convince them. There is a spark of madness required here my friend, that grand leap or reach that is required of each individual

 

[slh3016]

I am still waiting for someone to ask what it is I believe so I can proceed to recite the Nicene creed

Guess what?!?! My old Protestant church recites the Nicene Creed but sees the word “catholic” as only meaning universal.

So, you gotta have more than that in your arsenal.

 

[Polluted]

Guess what?!?! My old Protestant church recites the Nicene Creed but sees the word “catholic” as only meaning universal.

So, you gotta have more than that in your arsenal.

I would then ask why is it he recites a creed that was built by Catholics during that particular meeting in order to stomp out heresies floating around back in the olden days.

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t think that’s the reason. Things like divorce and birth control probably push that allot further.

And that’s simply another way to say: Catholics can’t articulate why the Church teaches what she teaches on divorce and re-marriage.

Also, do you mean: divorce and re-marriage? Not just divorce?

What is it someone CAN say to a question like that. Because the Bible says so? Because the Church says so? Give them some bastardized mixture of evolution and the genius of God’s plan?

You could say:

If there are multiple gods, then that means, by definition, each god is lacking something. That is, he is not the other god.

And that means, if he is lacking something, he cannot be God.

For God is the Summum Bonum. He who no greater can be thought, as St. Anselm so pithily wrote.

Or, another way to say it: If God is infinite, then there simply cannot be 2 infinite beings.

That’s a logical contradiction.

Or: here’s a great article about why I believe in one God.

Or: how about if we meet for coffee and we can chat about how it’s a logical contradiction to have more than 1 god?

 

[PRmerger]

I would then ask why is it he recites a creed that was built by Catholics during that particular meeting in order to stomp out heresies floating around back in the olden days.

Well, there you go. You are using apologetics then.

 

[slh3016]

I would then ask why is it he recites a creed that was built by Catholics during that particular meeting in order to stomp out heresies floating around back in the olden days.

Now, that^^^^^^^^^^ is apologetics at work

It’s the same reason why you can also say when a Protestant is beating you over the head with a particular Bible verse, “Why do you trust the Bible if you don’t trust the authority of the Catholic Church? It was the Catholic Church that decided which letters were to even be included in the New Testament.”

FACTS like that are what get people to analyzing what they believe and get the cogs turning in their brain. Honestly, it’s what got me into RCIA. Anyone with any reasoning abilities will not go into RCIA based solely on a “whim” or a “gut feeling.” They need to seek and find truth and truth is not just suiting your own fancy.

 

[PRmerger]

So many people want an answer today, a sign, proof, etc.

Firstly, I don’t see anything wrong with “so many people” asking questions. And wanting an answer

Now, asking for signs from God or proof from God…that’s different.

But someone asking you or me, “Why do you believe people can’t get divorced and re-married”, well, I think it’s a perfectly reasonable question and I think they deserve an answer.

How the hell can I give it to them?

Well, you can’t, if you don’t know the answer yourself.

If they are that spiritually numb to where they can not or WILL not acknowledge God’s hand in their own life, how am I going to convince them.

Oh. Are we talking about people who are spiritually numb who will not acknowledge God’s hand in their own life?

I thought we were talking about apologetics, and being able to articulate a reasoned argument for what the Catholic Church teaches.

Because there are certainly many Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Bahais, Buddhists, etc who are asking questions of Catholics. They aren’t all spiritually numb. And simply asking questions of Catholics is NOT an indication of being spiritually numb. At all.

So we need to provide them with the reasons for our hope.

There is a spark of madness required here my friend, that grand leap or reach that is required of each individual

I don’t know what you mean here.

 

[steve_b]

I’m a convert to the faith. Having said that, it’s been 2 years since I became Catholic and I love every second off it. I seriously consider myself privileged and lucky to have the fullness of the Christian faith.

But I find myself not really caring about Apologetics in terms of Catholocism. It’s a shame really, I could probably be a great witness (and I am by the loyalty I have and who I am as a person).

However I find myself labeling myself as a Catholic as the end of it. I refuse to play “Bible Pokemon” where we just throw verses back and fourth in the bible. To me it’s silly, and childish. It’s like someone buying a service manual for a computer and suddenly deciding it’s the be all, end all basis for understanding reality and calling the company up screaming about how they don’t know the REAL way to trouble shoot their computer.

I guess what I’m saying is, I just don’t care if these people find truth or joy in the Catholic way. It would be great, but chances are many of them have made up their mind in terms of their faith and it’s not so much a logical discussion as it is an attempt to convert me

Can anyone relate? Should I really try to argue the bible or theology with these people? Being a Catholic is a bold statement that one “Does not view a subjective interpretation of the bible as the be all end all in terms of the Christian way”. Tradition plays an equal role, so if they have rejected that idea from the start… why even argue? I seriously believe a bigger “seed” is planted by demonstrating what I am and where my faith ties into it (that being the cornerstone of my life)

I’m thinking of 2 responses to consider

1. 
   *]In John 6:41-70 (the bread of life discourse), Jesus lays out the teaching and understanding on what is the Eucharist. As anyone can see Jesus is not laying out a suggestion He is laying out a command. Cutting to the chase, all His hearers left Him because they told Him to His face, it’s too hard to accept. Jesus let them go. He didn’t go after them to take another approach, He let them go. And He said to the 12, He knew in advance what they would do because they had no faith. So the question could be asked, why did Jesus even waste His breath on them knowing it’s going to end that way? I think He did it for our education. If God doesn’t win an argument, because he won’t force His will on someone, we shouldn’t feel bad when we can’t convince others of our position. And even if we think it’s a useless endeavor to even start, at least try. If no success, let them go.
   *]Out of love Jesus gave them a chance. He wasn’t going to force them to believe against their will. And that should be our disposition as well. It shows how important faith is to have. The 2 greatest commandments Jesus gave are (1) love God with all your whole heart mind & strength, (2) and love your neighbor as yourself. If one breaks the 2nd commandment ( not loving their neighbor by wanting the best for them), one breakes both commandments. We need to care that our neighbor finds the truth. Besides, Peter said to us, always be ready to give a defense for the hope that lies within us but do it with charity [1 Peter 3:15](1 - - Bible Gateway Peter+3:15&version=RSVCE). It doesn’t mean looking for that opportunity to defend, just be ready if the opportunity comes. Which in extension, means one has to at least practice or they won’t be prepared to defend anything when the time comes. This forum is a great place for that practice.
   
   As an aside, think back on who helped you answer the tough questions such that you swam the Tiber. They took that step towards you, they were prepared, and it sounds like they answered your questions