I just don't get it....

[Moore11]

We average about 22 days here. I honestly think that makes it easier to ensure you are using NFP for serious reasons. I went to a Janet Smith presentation recently given at our church on NFP, and she was saying it was like 5-7 days. It would be EASY if it was only 5-7 days…

LOL that is the selling point that some seem to be using. I have met folks who have a 5 day abstinence period but those seem to be the exceptions. Ours was about 17 days, conservative but over the last year it was more like 7. But I wish to ask the OP if this is something that is supposed to be permanent as in they are opposed to having any more children? I got that impression from the 10 year gap between siblings mention. \

OP: Do you need to use NFP to avoid indefinitely? This makes a huge difference in how it will be implemented.

 

[Maxxadict]

We average about 22 days here. I honestly think that makes it easier to ensure you are using NFP for serious reasons. I went to a Janet Smith presentation recently given at our church on NFP, and she was saying it was like 5-7 days. It would be EASY if it was only 5-7 days…

5-7 I could deal with 20… I wont…I just don’t get how a three day ovulation can turn into twenty days of fertile time. Our instructors always said that “when you get good at reading your signs you can decrease your phase two to just a few days” …I don’t see it…it doesn’t help that you get a 5" thick book with 700 different rules to follow for 1000 different variables.

Sorry if I seem testy…I’m having an VERY anti-NFP day.

 

[Maxxadict]

LOL that is the selling point that some seem to be using. I have met folks who have a 5 day abstinence period but those seem to be the exceptions. Ours was about 17 days, conservative but over the last year it was more like 7. But I wish to ask the OP if this is something that is supposed to be permanent as in they are opposed to having any more children? I got that impression from the 10 year gap between siblings mention. \

OP: Do you need to use NFP to avoid indefinitely? This makes a huge difference in how it will be implemented.

My wife and I are a bit at odds about more children. She doesn’t want more but if they come…no big deal…I would like more. She is more interested in the practicality aspect…we have debt…we have a tiny house…we run a small business that takes both of our time…I’m of the thought that God will help us work it out…lets have kids because abstaining is awful…that’s how we got the first 2

 

[Moore11]

5-7 I could deal with 20… I wont…I just don’t get how a three day ovulation can turn into twenty days of fertile time. Our instructors always said that “when you get good at reading your signs you can decrease your phase two to just a few days” …I don’t see it…it doesn’t help that you get a 5" thick book with 700 different rules to follow for 1000 different variables.

Sorry if I seem testy…I’m having an VERY anti-NFP day.

You wont??? Let me see. You either follow Church teaching or you dont. You either have just reasons to avoid or dont. I was really sympathizing with you but now… 20 days a month? that means 10 days of house rockin time? man, some couples live waaaaaay longer than that without sex. It may not be ideal, but it is a small price. You really need to get a grip on how selfish that sounds. For some men it is 6 to 8 weeks post partum, or even longer for other issues. gesh man, I get it I know how it can be, I have lived exactly what you are doing, but man to man, suck it up and lay your life down for your bride. Be a knight, be honorable. Your wife may not “want” another kid but if the reasons were serious it would be pretty easy to abstain. methinks there is something not right here in the way of being open to life…

That being said,

 

[Moore11]

My wife and I are a bit at odds about more children. She doesn’t want more but if they come…no big deal…I would like more. She is more interested in the practicality aspect…we have debt…we have a tiny house…we run a small business that takes both of our time…I’m of the thought that God will help us work it out…lets have kids because abstaining is awful…that’s how we got the first 2

Well, there is your problem. You dont see just reasons and your wife does. This is a recipe for NFP disaster. You will whine, she will give in, you will have an ooops baby and she will blame you and NFP for something that is not an NFP issue. I know, we were in a similar situation. Through logic, theology, prayer, sacrifice and patience we are actively trying to conceive and have given NFP the old heave hoe. Now, for the time being until God can change hearts you just have to lay it down for your bride my brother.
I recomend E5men, based on Ephesians 5. You will find some fraternal support there.

 

[Maxxadict]

You wont??? Let me see. You either follow Church teaching or you dont. You either have just reasons to avoid or dont. I was really sympathizing with you but now… 20 days a month? that means 10 days of house rockin time? man, some couples live waaaaaay longer than that without sex. It may not be ideal, but it is a small price. You really need to get a grip on how selfish that sounds. For some men it is 6 to 8 weeks post partum, or even longer for other issues. gesh man, I get it I know how it can be, I have lived exactly what you are doing, but man to man, suck it up and lay your life down for your bride. Be a knight, be honorable. Your wife may not “want” another kid but if the reasons were serious it would be pretty easy to abstain. methinks there is something not right here in the way of being open to life…

That being said,

I will…I’m having a bad day…I know this is something that I have to do. I’m getting frustrated at the thought of spending the rest of my life abstaining 20+ days per month…for me thats a pretty bleak outlook…

 

[helplesspilgrim]

We’ve been abstinent for many months. After 2 years , our whole marriage, of studying nfp we have have yet to figure it out. We’ve looked into multiple methods and have had no luck, the instructors gave up on us, the institutes just told us to get pregnant (dangerous), as did the church then scoffed at our concerns of damage to a child. We have cried, prayed, discussed, and are perpetually lost and frustrated by the whole thing. Knowing that now our only option is perpetual celibacy/abstain.

This has lead to tears, massive depression and guilt of spousal abandonment in intimacy especially in my wife who is the catholic one, who i fully support in her faith even though its not easy to hurt like this and see her hurt. Like christ i love to the point of death, in this case the sex life is what is crucified.

I feel for those having to abstain for so long. I pray you don’t suffer with impending celibacy as we do. Good luck. Seriously.

Personaly we’ve been defeated.

My advice though would be to keep loving each other with all your being. Its the only way to bear this.

P.s. before anyone brings it up there is no medical reason why nfp is not working, we spent lots of money investigating that possibility, the CM is just completely undecipherable. And its way to dangerous to my wife and a child to wing it.

 

[etmom]

We’ve been abstinent for many months. After 2 years , our whole marriage, of studying nfp we have have yet to figure it out. We’ve looked into multiple methods and have had no luck, the instructors gave up on us, the institutes just told us to get pregnant (dangerous), as did the church then scoffed at our concerns of damage to a child. We have cried, prayed, discussed, and are perpetually lost and frustrated by the whole thing. Knowing that now our only option is perpetual celibacy/abstain.

This has lead to tears, massive depression and guilt of spousal abandonment in intimacy especially in my wife who is the catholic one, who i fully support in her faith even though its not easy to hurt like this and see her hurt. Like christ i love to the point of death, in this case the sex life is what is crucified.

I feel for those having to abstain for so long. I pray you don’t suffer with impending celibacy as we do. Good luck. Seriously.

Personaly we’ve been defeated.

My advice though would be to keep loving each other with all your being. Its the only way to bear this.

P.s. before anyone brings it up there is no medical reason why nfp is not working, we spent lots of money investigating that possibility, the CM is just completely undecipherable. And its way to dangerous to my wife and a child to wing it.

I’m sure you have looked into this, but have you tried Marquette? Ive known couples that nothing else worked for, and they’ve been able to use Marquette, post ovulatory only, with the help of the monitor to p(name removed by moderator)oint ovulation.

 

[ehemann]

You wont??? Let me see. You either follow Church teaching or you dont. You either have just reasons to avoid or dont. I was really sympathizing with you but now… 20 days a month? that means 10 days of house rockin time? man, some couples live waaaaaay longer than that without sex. It may not be ideal, but it is a small price. You really need to get a grip on how selfish that sounds. For some men it is 6 to 8 weeks post partum, or even longer for other issues. gesh man, I get it I know how it can be, I have lived exactly what you are doing, but man to man, suck it up and lay your life down for your bride. Be a knight, be honorable. Your wife may not “want” another kid but if the reasons were serious it would be pretty easy to abstain. methinks there is something not right here in the way of being open to life…

That being said,

Moore 11 - tread lightly, please. My wife says this to me all the time, too. “I won’t live like this” How am I supposed to take that? That she is going to divorce me over NFP? I hope that is neither the case for my wife nor for Maxxadict. Really, I hope that these harsh words are just frustration being vented. Pray for us, encourage knighthood, yes, but be charitable and offer these struggling souls at least some sympathy.

 

[LucyLight]

Being around a woman who is ovulating does have an effect on a man’s hormones. Certainly sleeping in the same bed as a woman who is ovulating would amplify this. It really is a unique situation to be sleeping with an ovulating woman and not being able to have sex every month. So it makes sense that this could certainly aggravate a married man unlike a couple who is dating and not living together. Saying that abstaining for 20 days is no big deal because hey they can do it for 10 ignores this.

I’ve noticed this in my own husband. He is defininetly not as interested in sex when I am in phase 3. This is why NFP is sooooo not natural.On another note I would never make someone feel weak for struggling with abstinence because everyones hormones are different.

I will also add that a woman does not ovulate for months after her child is born so abstaining then could certainly be easier for both the man and the woman

 

[ehemann]

Kinda puts the way I’ve been acting in perspective…kinda…I don’t I get hostile toward my wife just toward nfp which is voiced to my wife. My wife keeps telling me It’s going to get easier but I don’t see how. Last month we had 15 days of abstinence(have to be more conservative coming off ABC) then my wife got a yeast infection which put us over 20 days. So far this month because we have to abstain during phase 1 we’re just over 20 days of abstinence. I got up this morning very excited because we had two days of temp rise…tomorrow we’re golden!..then my wife says I need to cross check with drying up and we need five days of rise coming off abc…Pretty hard for that bit not to ruin your day…I felt awful I got up in a good mood…happy, ready to got to Mass a 7a.m. Then I get tossed that tid bit…it broke me. I hate that the abstinence is so unpredictable(wife says after a couple months it’ll get easier)It wouldn’t be bad if we had to abstain from this day to that day every month for x number of days but everything is random. If I have to wait for something I have to know when I’ll get it. It can’t be some random day or I go nuts. We bought a lady comp from Amazon hopefully that makes things easier predictionwise. I don’t know what average length of abstinence is but if it continues to be 20+ days…

Yeah, 20 days+ is a lot. We average around 14/16 days. As we get better phase two seems to be getting longer, but nonetheless. I understand your frustration. I too wish I could just have total control, mark it on the calendar and then work off my penance. But it just does not work that way. God is in control, not us. We have to be willing to live in His knowledge, not He in ours. And that means we are not in control. It runs contrary to everything we have learned and worked toward in our adult lives. It’s just plain un-American and it stinks. And yet we have to give up our freedom to be totally free, we cannot hold on to it (or the illusion we have). We belong to Him, or we do not. We can’t cheat the system. Hang in there. Pray. Love. Don’t forget why you got married in the first place (it wasn’t just for the sex, I know). Make a bad NFP day into a good married day despite the frustration. Pray for me to do the same…

 

[Calliso]

Being around a woman who is ovulating does have an effect on a man’s hormones. Certainly sleeping in the same bed as a woman who is ovulating would amplify this. It really is a unique situation to be sleeping with an ovulating woman and not being able to have sex every month. So it makes sense that this could certainly aggravate a married man unlike a couple who is dating and not living together. Saying that abstaining for 20 days is no big deal because hey they can do it for 10 ignores this.

I’ve noticed this in my own husband. He is defininetly not as interested in sex when I am in phase 3. This is why NFP is sooooo not natural.On another note I would never make someone feel weak for struggling with abstinence because everyones hormones are different.

I will also add that a woman does not ovulate for months after her child is born so abstaining then could certainly be easier for both the man and the woman

Not to mention it assumes that those ten days will all be free. In addition to the days you lose to it not being 'safe" there is of course real life in general to consider. So that ten days can quickly just become a few days free a month maybe even less.

 

[Rita77]

chart chart chart eventually you will gain more confidence with the signs of fertility and should be able to shorten 20 to about 10. bbt temp charting helps with any method!! proper bbt temp shift is the only fertle sign that confirms ovulation. if you get a proper bbt temp shift you have a confirmed green light on sex for phase three or cm talk post peak. your just in the learning stage give your wife more time to figure it out. I will be praying a St Joseph novena for all couples struggling with nfp.

 

[ryecroft]

You and your wife should talk seriously about what is going on. It is not going to help if you push her away - it will make it seem as if you love her less without sex.

You don’t have to answer this but one of the points in NFP is that you reassess every month, when you approach the fertile days, if there is still a good reason to postpone your next pregnancy. Assuming there is nothing life-threatening, of course. Periodic abstinence is a sacrifice but it’s a sacrifice for the greater good. The greater good isn’t to have a better marriage - that’s a side effect. The greater good is whatever is the just reason not to have another child right now. At some point, the sacrifice will not seem “worth it” compared to the blessing of another child. That’s a good thing.

I’m sorry this makes it almost sound like "if you really really want to have sex and you give into it then obviously the reason wasn’t serious enough not to have another child.
Personally, I think if you’re going to continue with NFP that you go get one of the machines and perhaps you won’t have to have so many off days.
Good luck
Rye

 

[Rita77]

I’m sorry this makes it almost sound like "if you really really want to have sex and you give into it then obviously the reason wasn’t serious enough not to have another child.
Personally, I think if you’re going to continue with NFP that you go get one of the machines and perhaps you won’t have to have so many off days.
Good luck
Rye

that “machine thing” you talk about is a ovulation predictor monitor and are just a prediction of when ovulation may occur and expensive. although they do help many couples who struggle with nfp better prediction ovulations they can’t confirm it like the bbt temp can. the problem is lots of health problems can cause an inadequate bbt temp shift adding to days of abstaince in any given cycle. nothing is perfect thats why I like stm and cross checking all the signs of fertilty instead of just one like the mucus only methods. mucus is the most importaint sign but bbt temp and cervix checks can really help understand a cycle better.

Fertilty cycles and nutrition by Marilyn Shannon rent if from the library if you can. its a excellent book explaining how to fix health problems affecting our cycles.

 

[Nate13]

that “machine thing” you talk about is a ovulation predictor monitor and are just a prediction of when ovulation may occur and expensive. although they do help many couples who struggle with nfp better prediction ovulations they can’t confirm it like the bbt temp can. the problem is lots of health problems can cause an inadequate bbt temp shift adding to days of abstaince in any given cycle. nothing is perfect thats why I like stm and cross checking all the signs of fertilty instead of just one like the mucus only methods. mucus is the most importaint sign but bbt temp and cervix checks can really help understand a cycle better.

Fertilty cycles and nutrition by Marilyn Shannon rent if from the library if you can. its a excellent book explaining how to fix health problems affecting our cycles.

I have a feeling that eventually there is going to be a study done that shows women who use NFP live longer on average than those that don’t. So many health issues can be averted because of the information gleaned by using it.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

We’ve been abstinent for many months. After 2 years , our whole marriage, of studying nfp we have have yet to figure it out. We’ve looked into multiple methods and have had no luck, the instructors gave up on us, the institutes just told us to get pregnant (dangerous), as did the church then scoffed at our concerns of damage to a child. We have cried, prayed, discussed, and are perpetually lost and frustrated by the whole thing. Knowing that now our only option is perpetual celibacy/abstain.

This has lead to tears, massive depression and guilt of spousal abandonment in intimacy especially in my wife who is the catholic one, who i fully support in her faith even though its not easy to hurt like this and see her hurt. Like christ i love to the point of death, in this case the sex life is what is crucified.

I feel for those having to abstain for so long. I pray you don’t suffer with impending celibacy as we do. Good luck. Seriously.

Personaly we’ve been defeated.

My advice though would be to keep loving each other with all your being. Its the only way to bear this.

P.s. before anyone brings it up there is no medical reason why nfp is not working, we spent lots of money investigating that possibility, the CM is just completely undecipherable. And its way to dangerous to my wife and a child to wing it.

Why can you not have children?

 

[helplesspilgrim]

Thats a bit personal. But oh well!

I wont get too specific but my wife has health issues (of the non-reproductive sort) that would make it dangerous for her and a child, its a terminal life long thing, the meds she takes for this add a double danger by causing frequent miscarriages (which she says she’d feel guilty for) or debilitating birth defects (heart,brain, lungs, nervous system). Docs are insistent that the meds WILL cause damage to a baby, and to NOT get pregnant.

We thought NFP was away around it, but that failed us too so far.

We are a youngish couple too, so were looking at decades of abstinence. (25-35 years to menopause)

 

[Moore11]

Ladycomp is a good help for those who just need time to trust NFP. There is a fertility watch and a fertility spit analizer that also can help. We used ladycomp until we had everything down and it was amazingly accurate and “learns” so your abstinence periods are shorter the more it “learns”

 

[Moore11]

Moore 11 - tread lightly, please. My wife says this to me all the time, too. “I won’t live like this” How am I supposed to take that? That she is going to divorce me over NFP? I hope that is neither the case for my wife nor for Maxxadict. Really, I hope that these harsh words are just frustration being vented. Pray for us, encourage knighthood, yes, but be charitable and offer these struggling souls at least some sympathy.

You know, through this thread I have been supportive and sympathetic but when it has potential to turn into whining about having to abstain for 20 days because the wife is closed to life then I have an issue. Some couples, suffer worse, as evidenced by a recent poster.
It offends me because I am a man and I dont want to give into the stereotype that we are just big apes who have to have a release or we will die. Please, look to the clergy, the married couples who cannot have sex, the unmarried who must be pure. I get that we long for our wives, that a healthy marriage has healthy sex. But what we are addressing here is selfishness not marital unity. Selfishness on the woman who does not want to be open to God’s will. And selfishness on the husband who is stamping his foot like a child who has been told no. Am I harsh, maybe but hopefully someone will respect the fact that I am strait shooting and not too worried about feelings. I’m just offering a perspective that is balance by the female “feeling” type answers. I posted exactly what I would tell a good friend. Between the pats on the back and the slaps upside the proverbial head maybe the op will get something out of this.

St Joseph. Mary’s Most Chaste spouse… Pray for us.