I just don't get...

[coolduude]

How do Protestants remain Protestants with the (almost literal) mountain of evidence against them?

Church Fathers, the Gospels, St. Paul, St. Peter, and most of all, logic!

It also befuddles me as to how the Reformation created new churches in the first place. It seems to me that most breaks in the Church at that time took place out of anger, not legitimate doctrinal disputes (Henry VII is a prime example).

It seems the anger took over, the split occurred, and the doctrinal stuff got worked out later. That’s probably why 95% of it is so crazy.

If only Protestants did this:
“He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Hear the good news of the RCC I mean…

 

[CMatt25]

I think they listen to the Gospels, Paul, Peter, and logic. But maybe they would tell you they listen to the Holy Spirit in their lives more than the Catholic Church’s interpretations of these and more than her interpretation of the ECFs? They’re just walkin with the Lord as you are, as we all are, in good conscience to the best of our understanding on where He wants us to be. Perhaps on slightly different paths but all on a path striving towards the same destination. Eternal life with the Lord.

 

[Moscati]

Have you ever been a Protestant? I have, and it’s hardly as simple as all that. Many Protestants don’t know much about Catholic doctrine or Church history. I had never heard of the Church Fathers (except Augustine) until I went to college. As St. Paul says, “How can they call on Him of whom they have not heard?”.

Other Protestants have very well examined beliefs, and know more about Scripture and Church history than I could ever hope to. Two of the people most responsible for my conversion to Catholicism are staunch Anglicans, whom I respect immensely. It’s not that they aren’t aware. I choose to pray for them, not think them stupid. Be charitable.

Finally . . . I’m not so sure logic is always on the side of Catholicism. 'Eat my Body and drink my Blood" is not at all logical, as far as I’m concerned. It’s a profound mystery.

 

[thirdn6]

How do Protestants remain Protestants with the (almost literal) mountain of evidence against them?

Church Fathers, the Gospels, St. Paul, St. Peter, and most of all, logic!

It also befuddles me as to how the Reformation created new churches in the first place. It seems to me that most breaks in the Church at that time took place out of anger, not legitimate doctrinal disputes (Henry VII is a prime example).

It seems the anger took over, the split occurred, and the doctrinal stuff got worked out later. That’s probably why 95% of it is so crazy.

If only Protestants did this:
“He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Hear the good news of the RCC I mean…

It’s as simple as these emoticons show.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Watch them after a year… after five years… after ten years… even after twenty years… they will still be doing the same thing with their head. Why?

They’re hard-headed!
Now you get the clue….

 

[MeekandHumble]

How do Protestants remain Protestants with the (almost literal) mountain of evidence against them?

Church Fathers, the Gospels, St. Paul, St. Peter, and most of all, logic!

It also befuddles me as to how the Reformation created new churches in the first place. It seems to me that most breaks in the Church at that time took place out of anger, not legitimate doctrinal disputes (Henry VII is a prime example).

It seems the anger took over, the split occurred, and the doctrinal stuff got worked out later. That’s probably why 95% of it is so crazy.

If only Protestants did this:
“He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Hear the good news of the RCC I mean…

First I will say, hello.

Before I choose a denomination, I will be doing a lot of research. I have researched many denominations and compared them to the Bible and a lot of their views conflict with the Bible.

I broke away from my old denomination and is currently in search of a home…because very few people can explain to me what their doctrine is or stands on.

Like for instance, Iv’e gone to funerals and people will say that the person that died is in Heaven and is watching down on us. Well I have done a lot of reading and that conflicts with the Bible. I will name a few points as to why I say this conflicts.

1. Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
   -My question is, how can a person already be in Heaven, when Christ said that his reward is with Him?

2.Ecc. 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
-Also, I’ve been told that the dead is looking down on us or is praying for us, yet this scripture says that the dead know not anything.

1. Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
   -Now with this scripture, it says that David is dead AND buried.

I’ve mentioned these things to people of different denominations and they get mad at me or do not want to talk about it. I don’t want to be given the run around. I want answers, but not any answers. I want them from the Bible. If this is done, I can go back and read them for myself. But to this day, no one has done that. And that is why I am currently in search of a home and not in a church home with a church family.

I can’t speak for anyone else. This is how I feel.

 

[CMatt25]

Have you ever been a Protestant? I have, and it’s hardly as simple as all that. Many Protestants don’t know much about Catholic doctrine or Church history. I had never heard of the Church Fathers (except Augustine) until I went to college. As St. Paul says, “How can they call on Him of whom they have not heard?”.

Other Protestants have very well examined beliefs, and know more about Scripture and Church history than I could ever hope to. Two of the people most responsible for my conversion to Catholicism are staunch Anglicans, whom I respect immensely. It’s not that they aren’t aware. I choose to pray for them, not think them stupid. Be charitable.

Finally . . . I’m not so sure logic is always on the side of Catholicism. 'Eat my Body and drink my Blood" is not at all logical, as far as I’m concerned. It’s a profound mystery.

Who me? Nope but I sure have been accused. I do agree though not as simple as I suggested as many Protestants do have deep beliefs, know Scripture very well, and also as you said perhaps haven’t been exposed to Catholic beliefs if they have been in a Protestant church their whole lives.

 

[guanophore]

How do Protestants remain Protestants with the (almost literal) mountain of evidence against them?

Church Fathers, the Gospels, St. Paul, St. Peter, and most of all, logic!

It also befuddles me as to how the Reformation created new churches in the first place. It seems to me that most breaks in the Church at that time took place out of anger, not legitimate doctrinal disputes (Henry VII is a prime example).

It seems the anger took over, the split occurred, and the doctrinal stuff got worked out later. That’s probably why 95% of it is so crazy.

If only Protestants did this:
“He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Hear the good news of the RCC I mean…

The Catholic Church is not “Roman” but you are right, there was a lot of anger, pride, and hurt. The issues were political and economic, but we must be mindful that this occurred because the Roman hierarchy in Europe had been grossly corrupt for centuries. The Reformers made the erroneous assumption that the corruption of the clergy resulted from wrong doctrine.

The vast majority of Protestants know nothing about church history and have never heard of the Early FAthers. Some of the most fervent evangelicals do not believe that the writings of the early fathers should have any bearing at all on how we should understand the Holy Scriptures. That is why “to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant”.

 

[gtrenewed]

I broke away from my old denomination and is currently in search of a home…because very few people can explain to me what their doctrine is or stands on

 

[guanophore]

First I will say, hello.

Welcome to CAF!

Before I choose a denomination, I will be doing a lot of research.

It might be helpful to consider that all “denominations” were created by men, and represent a departure from the Church founded by Christ to a greater or lesser extent. They all have defined themselves AGAINST what they believe about Catholicism. Catholicism is not a denomination.

I have researched many denominations and compared them to the Bible and a lot of their views conflict with the Bible.

I am glad you are doing your research, and glad you are visiting at CAF.

However, one must take into account researcher bias in these matters. What you are saying here is that your perceptions of what the denomination believes conflicts with your perception of what the Bible says.

Have you ever considered that your views of the Bible may not be consistent with what the Apostles believed and taught?

I broke away from my old denomination and is currently in search of a home…because very few people can explain to me what their doctrine is or stands on.

I am glad that you have the wisdome to see this flaw, and the integrity to go in search of the Truth. Of such is the Kingdom of God!

Like for instance, Iv’e gone to funerals and people will say that the person that died is in Heaven and is watching down on us. Well I have done a lot of reading and that conflicts with the Bible. I will name a few points as to why I say this conflicts.

1. Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
   -My question is, how can a person already be in Heaven, when Christ said that his reward is with Him?

For the same reason He could tell the thief on the cross “today you will be with me in Paradise” when the gates of heaven were not yet opened.

2.Ecc. 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

I think you are taking this verse out of context, and apparently attempting to build a doctrine upon it that is not consistent with Apostolic teaching.

-Also, I’ve been told that the dead is looking down on us or is praying for us, yet this scripture says that the dead know not anything.

What do you think Jesus meant when He said "He who believes in Me, though He die, yet shall He life?

And again “He who believes in me shall be alive forevermore”?

If the dead know nothing, how did Saul have a coherent conversation with Samuel after his death? How is it that Samuel knew about events that would take place on the earth the next day?

If the dead known nothing, who are those in the book of Rev. who are under the altar, crying to God for vengence?

1. Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
   -Now with this scripture, it says that David is dead AND buried.

How is it that Jesus was able to have a chat with Elijah and Moses? how did they know what was about to happen on earth?

Who are those that came out of the tombs at the resurrection? How is it that the people in the city knew them?

It seems that you are taking the depressed poetry of a beleagered and hopeless ancient prophet and trying to use it to discount the teachings of the Apostles.

I’ve mentioned these things to people of different denominations and they get mad at me or do not want to talk about it. I don’t want to be given the run around. I want answers, but not any answers. I want them from the Bible.

This may come as a shock to you , Meek, but the Christian faith was not designed to be extrapolated from text, however Holy. Jesus committed all of His teachings to the Apostles, and they , to the Church. We are to RECEIVE the faith from those to whom it was entrusted.

If this is done, I can go back and read them for myself. But to this day, no one has done that. And that is why I am currently in search of a home and not in a church home with a church family.

I pray that God will provide the answers you seek. You may not find them where you think they are, however. The revelation of God is not dependent upon your perceptions and parameters.

I can’t speak for anyone else. This is how I feel.

I appreciate your candor, and your devotion.

 

[CMatt25]

See the following shows people in heaven before Jesus’ return.
Rev 6:9 martyrs under the throne of God;
Rev 7:9-17 a multitude in heaven;
2Cor 5:8 to absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord

 

[Mosacked]

Protestants don’t rely on history for their beliefs. They only and solely rely on the Holy Bible. Period.

To you its amazing how they can remain protestants despite your evidences of being appointed as the church. To them, its amazing how you can believe you are appointed when Peter was never referred to as Pope nor did Peter officiate the position nor pass it down to his ‘sucessor’.

There are always many ways of looking at the same situation. That’s why we’re all different. The most common hazard however is the trap of using ASSUMPTIONS.

When we assume something, we have already fixed the boundaries of our beliefs. As Christians, we should refrain from ASSUMING.

By that I mean we must take the word of Scripture directly, clearly and without dilution. If its not in the Bible, DISCARD it. Never assume on behalf of God. If its in the bible take it as it is. Never think you are smarter and assume that God must have carelessly left it out. If God has left it out of the Holy Bible, then it must mean that He meant it as such. NOT TO BE IN THE BIBLE.

Don’t interpret using your own contexts and personal interpretations. And never think that because you think you had a part in it, you therefore have the right to change it. Because You don’t. All that has happened is in the hands of God.

 

[MartinJordan]

I think some people have come to wrong website to convince Catholics that the Church’s teachings are wrong, no matter what.

 

[JW55]

Oftentimes it is not as logical as conviincing a person of what is the “correct” and what is “error”. Some people are members of a particular church simply because their parents were, the location is convenient or for the social environment present.

 

[Dokimas]

How do Protestants remain Protestants with the (almost literal) mountain of evidence against them?

Church Fathers, the Gospels, St. Paul, St. Peter, and most of all, logic!

It also befuddles me as to how the Reformation created new churches in the first place. It seems to me that most breaks in the Church at that time took place out of anger, not legitimate doctrinal disputes (Henry VII is a prime example).

It seems the anger took over, the split occurred, and the doctrinal stuff got worked out later. That’s probably why 95% of it is so crazy.

If only Protestants did this:
“He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Hear the good news of the RCC I mean…

I’m not sure that the Gospels, Paul, Peter or logic point me toward the CC.​

The earliest ‘reformers’ were ‘kicked out’ of the CC so the CC is responsibe for the early formation of the protestant churches.​

Maybe it’s not just the protestants that need to have ‘ears to hear’?​

I love the good news of Jesus Christ and His loving act to redeem my wicked soul. I doubt your good news, about the RCC, can compare with the good news of Jesus the Christ.

 

[Dokimas]

Protestants don’t rely on history for their beliefs. They only and solely rely on the Holy Bible. Period.

Are you unaware that the Bible touches wonderfully on history?

 

[nhylan]

Let me play devil’s advocate here, this isn’t what I believe but it is certainly a logical progression of thought.

Why should I be Roman Catholic? According to your own rules, because I am Christian and hold 99% of the same beliefs as you, I can go to heaven. If I have a profound disagreement with certain ideas the church holds (ie. celibacy of the priesthood, infallability of the pope) why would I bother becoming Roman Catholic when I’m already saved? Heck, I’m espiscopalian, we call ourselves Catholic anyways.

 

[Lutheranteach]

One should keep in mind that many protestants are just as perplexed how one can remain a Catholic.

 

[Greenbrier]

The great irony here is that many of us experience the same bewilderment when we consider why Catholics remain Catholic, and for more or less the same reasons.

 

[ralphinal]

One should keep in mind that many protestants are just as perplexed how one can remain a Catholic.

I was about to play Protestant’s advocate here on this one.

Let’s say that someone is looking into leaving one Protestant denomination for another form of Christianity. Now, let us say that somehow they look into Orthodoxy as well as Catholocism. What will they see? Both claim to be the original Christian group, yet there are real differences that become clear as you investigate them. Now, using your criteria, which is correct? The EO have an answer for every Catholic claim, and vice-versa.

Now, let’s say that they compair only the surface differences. Suddenly, the EO look very much like some Protestant denominations. No pope? Check. Local authority? Check. Real Presence not described as Transubstantiation? Check. Now, that person may decide that since some Protestant Denominations are closer to EO than Rome, that particular denomination may hold the claim as being historically accurate as well.

 

[nhylan]

And that even assumes that being historically accurate matters to some Protestant (which it does to some)