I just want information on the annulment process--in what circumstances might it be granted?

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Ophelia23

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It has been a very long time since I have posted on CAF. In that time, a lot has happened. So much discovery, it is overwhelming at times.

To give a very brief background, I have posted often here about my husband and his abuses. I now understand and see that they are, in fact, abuses toward me and the children. Many kind men and women here on the forum have attempted to help me see more clearly that which has been happening, and a little over a year ago I began seeing a therapist for guidance.

After a particularly violent outburst in January by my husband (screaming in my face, name calling, pushing, breaking things, fists in my face, threatening to harm me or kill himself, pulling our 5 year old aside to tell her what a ***** her mama was…) I told him to leave. My children and I also left to a safe place. When he came down from this rage, I explained to him that we need to seek help together. I needed to know that a third party heard my side, not his interpretation of what happens. We needed to put everything on the table. He agreed, and we have been seeing someone together. In a lot of ways, my husband is genuinely improving. The rages have ceased. The threats of physical violence have gone, for now. But the manipulation, the verbal abuse, the blaming, tearing me down, telling me I was a mistake, that I am a disgrace, these still continue.

I went and made this a long story. I’m sorry. I use a lot of words. Old habits die hard.

I should be happy with his progress, but my insides still become knots when I think of our long-term. I don’t trust my or my kids emotional safety with him. I do trust that he is sincerely struggling, I believe he wants to love us in a more healthy manner, I believe he is more than just a terrible man–he can be wonderful and giving and compassionate, if everything is going his way. But the moment I have any injury, any need, any want, he checks out.

…This marriage might end. I am tired. I am tired of the fight. I am fearful of what will happen if it ends, and I am fearful of what will happen if it remains. I am just beginning to get information, though. How does the annulment process work…? Does each diocese have someone we can meet with just to seek advice? I just want information. I don’t want to take any action yet. Or ever. I don’t know. I would like to know what sorts of circumstances might be cause for annulment, or if I am more likely looking at a single life with my children without the possibility of future marriage.

I am conflicted, confused, and suffering.

I look forward to any advice one might have in regards to the annulment process.
 
I don’t know about the annulment issue (just that there are no guarantees), but stay safe please! And make sure that other people in real life understand the situation and are willing to help you at a moment’s notice. I would encourage you to keep copies of your and your kids’ important documents somewhere safe away from your home, just in case.

Also, your husband may need some kind of psychiatric help if you are going to live together. If you don’t see enough improvement, ask for him to do a psychiatric evaluation as a condition of living together. It may be that medication will smooth him out. (We have an old friend who discovered–after two failed marriages–that he was bipolar and that medication helped a lot to control his moods.)

I’ve probably mentioned the book Why Does He Do That? to you before. Very briefly, the answer to “why?” is often–because it works. It’s a manipulative tactic.

None of this is your fault. Be safe! Keep your kids safe!
 
Oh beloved.
Your story is my own.
Mine had a tragic ending.
To your questions, Yes Yes Yes
Each Diocese can offer you low or no-cost counseling, you can have your priest or favorite Deacon be your advocate during the annulment process.
Someone in your parish who is an attorney can help you obtain a divorce first.
Go to a safe house, and don’t divulge where you are.
I am praying for you in a very special way.
PM me if you ever need to just talk.
It will be better one day. You will see. God does not ever abandon his faithful ones.
I pray that your husband recovers fully, and sees the light. But take precautions, nonetheless. Do it for yourself AND the children. What has happened is written on their hearts. Their dad is sick, damaged, and in need of professional help. None of this is your fault or their fault. Keep repeating that. Children are not dumb, either. They can clearly see who is the aggressor and not swayed or brainwashed. They are likely, terrified and confused because they love their daddy.
I will be thinking about you all the time.
God bless you…candles being lit, prayers offered. Ask Padre Pio to watch over you in a special way.
“St Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our safeguard…”
 
pianistclare said:
Oh beloved.
Your story is my own.
Mine had a tragic ending.
To your questions, Yes Yes Yes
Each Diocese can offer you low or no-cost counseling, you can have your priest or favorite Deacon be your advocate during the annulment process.
Someone in your parish who is an attorney can help you obtain a divorce first.
Go to a safe house, and don’t divulge where you are.
I am praying for you in a very special way.
PM me if you ever need to just talk.
It will be better one day. You will see. God does not ever abandon his faithful ones.
I pray that your husband recovers fully, and sees the light. But take precautions, nonetheless. Do it for yourself AND the children. What has happened is written on their hearts. Their dad is sick, damaged, and in need of professional help. None of this is your fault or their fault. Keep repeating that. Children are not dumb, either. They can clearly see who is the aggressor and not swayed or brainwashed. They are likely, terrified and confused because they love their daddy.
I will be thinking about you all the time.
God bless you…candles being lit, prayers offered. Ask Padre Pio to watch over you in a special way.
“St Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our safeguard…”
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Being made to witness the abuse of a parent is abuse of the child. (This is true even when abuse between parents is mutual.)

Every family has its relational bumps and bruises, but that is not what we are talking about here. Complaints and disputes between family members must be worked out in a mutually respectful and non-threatening way; that is not negotiable. An “improvement” in which the severity or frequency of abuse is reduced “enough” is not acceptable. The abuse must be utterly stopped. The damage already done is already too much.

I recently got a message from a son whose father had died. He was passing the news on from another son. Both referred to their father by his first and last name; neither will ever refer to him as “Dad” ever again, and they are both parents themselves. Neither will be at the man’s funeral; they cannot manage it. The hurt is still that raw and profound, even 20 years later. This was not “emergency room” abuse, either. It was primarily verbal attacks and other kinds of relational abuse and serious relational neglect. This is not damage that just goes away when the abuser is made to stop his abuse.
 
EasterJoy said:
Being made to witness the abuse of a parent is abuse of the child. (This is true even when abuse between parents is mutual.)

If this remark is aimed at either me or the OP, I find it most uncharitable. Until you have lived with a terribly abusive husband who threatens you every minute of every day, you cannot blame the spouse for what happens.
I’ve pretty much had it with these kinds of attitudes. :sad_yes::bighanky:

OP, you can vent to me anytime. I pray fervently for you.
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Ophelia23 said:
It has been a very long time since I have posted on CAF. In that time, a lot has happened. So much discovery, it is overwhelming at times.

To give a very brief background, I have posted often here about my husband and his abuses. I now understand and see that they are, in fact, abuses toward me and the children. Many kind men and women here on the forum have attempted to help me see more clearly that which has been happening, and a little over a year ago I began seeing a therapist for guidance.

After a particularly violent outburst in January by my husband (screaming in my face, name calling, pushing, breaking things, fists in my face, threatening to harm me or kill himself, pulling our 5 year old aside to tell her what a ***** her mama was…) I told him to leave. My children and I also left to a safe place. When he came down from this rage, I explained to him that we need to seek help together. I needed to know that a third party heard my side, not his interpretation of what happens. We needed to put everything on the table. He agreed, and we have been seeing someone together. In a lot of ways, my husband is genuinely improving. The rages have ceased. The threats of physical violence have gone, for now. ** But the manipulation, the verbal abuse, the blaming, tearing me down, telling me I was a mistake, that I am a disgrace, these still continue.
**
I went and made this a long story. I’m sorry. I use a lot of words. Old habits die hard.

I should be happy with his progress, but my insides still become knots when I think of our long-term. I don’t trust my or my kids emotional safety with him. I do trust that he is sincerely struggling, I believe he wants to love us in a more healthy manner, I believe he is more than just a terrible man–he can be wonderful and giving and compassionate, if everything is going his way. **But the moment I have any injury, any need, any want, he checks out. **

…This marriage might end. I am tired. I am tired of the fight. I am fearful of what will happen if it ends, and I am fearful of what will happen if it remains. I am just beginning to get information, though. How does the annulment process work…? Does each diocese have someone we can meet with just to seek advice? I just want information. I don’t want to take any action yet. Or ever. I don’t know. I would like to know what sorts of circumstances might be cause for annulment, or if I am more likely looking at a single life with my children without the possibility of future marriage.

I am conflicted, confused, and suffering.

I look forward to any advice one might have in regards to the annulment process.
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(Bold mine)

Oh, dear. Whatever I could say would sound inadequate, but I am so sorry. 😦

No one should have to put up with this, and the fact that physical abuse has ceased (for the moment) does not make any of this other behaviour justifiable under any circumstances. This does not sound like run-of-the-mill disharmony or discord by any means. And neglect is also a form of abuse. (I say this as someone who is an incredibly imperfect husband and who has screwed up many times, but who can still see how damaging and dangerous the conduct you describe is.) :mad:

Praying for you and your children. :gopray:
 
I know this is not your question, but how does your counselor feel about your husband’s current behavior? Does your husband do the blaming and negativity in counseling sessions?

I feel like a lot of the stuff your husband is doing is a big no-no in Therapy Land.
 
I’ve been thinking about you, Ophelia. I’m sorry things are so hard. While I wish it was different, I’m not really surprised by what you say here. 😦 I think your husband getting a psychiatric evaluation is an excellent idea, and in the meantime agree that you need to be ready to go at a moment’s notice.

Praying for you.
 
I can’t give any advice about annulments but…

Honestly…I think you need to move out. NOW. I’m afraid for your children. Pulling a five-year-old aside to say her mama is a ***** is enough to warrant staying completely away from him until he is 100% capable of stopping such behavior. Not to mention the fist in the face and breaking things…

I’m really, really, really afraid for your kids. Really…

I want to cry thinking about it.

I grew up with a certain amount of tension/emotional abuse from my parents, much MUCH less than what your husband is doing, and I am on antidepressants and in therapy bimonthly. I’ve had intense suicidal thoughts and fantasies of how I would commit suicide, severe bouts of depression, and a variety of trust issues, to name a few of my mental problems. But my dad never told me my mom was a ***** or broke anything. The scars I have from witnessing the tensions in my parents’ marriage and their direct emotional abuse/neglect of me are horrible, and what I experienced was probably one twelfth of what your children are experiencing from your husband.

Thinking about your situation makes me feel physically ill.

I’m really, really, really, really, really scared for your girls.
 
Maybe I missed something but I hope the OP realizes that it doesn’t matter whether or not she will be granted an annulment if the situation is so dangerous that she has to file for divorce and seek complete custody of her children. She would only need to think about an annulment if she plans to marry in the Church again someday. I’m sure that’s not even on her radar at this point.

I’ve met many people who think that they MUST be able to get an annulment in order to justify divorcing an abusive spouse. Absolutely not! Whether a marriage is ultimately valid or not shouldn’t be a factor if the marriage is abusive and dangerous to the spouse or children. What matters is their safety. Divorced Catholics can still receive communion, their children can still receive the sacraments and attend the parish school (something I have discovered that a lot of people don’t realize… they believe the divorce itself cuts them off from the Church.) An annulment is only necessary should either party wish to marry in the Church and, as I said before, I don’t think the OP is even considering that at this point.

In any case, if there has not been a civil divorce, the tribunal will not even begin to investigate the validity of a marriage since the parties are still legally married to each other.

My prayers are with the OP and her children.
 
First, I would like to say thank you for everyone’s support and concern. I share the concern. I understand his behaviors are unacceptable. It took a lot of work–very humbling, difficult work–to reach that. I am working through all sorts of things. Shame. Embarrassment. Confusion. I understand how solutions can seem very clear when you are standing on the outside. If I saw myself on a tv screen, I would be yelling at the tv “Run! For goodness sakes, run!”

But there is so much more than black and white.

I am not making excuses. I am gathering my information. I am preparing. If I didn’t trust our physical safety, we would be gone. I have drawn the line in my mind and in my heart–if he steps too close to the line, we will be gone.

It is in my heart to remarry in the church, if this ends. I have every intention of still being a loving wife to someone. I have every hope of someone being a loving husband to me. I am just trying to gather information.

I am considering contacting my archdiocese to seek counsel from one of their representatives. I have a few hesitations to do so, because I am an employee of the archdiocese. I just can’t get it out of my head that I need to tread lightly.

I appreciate your love and prayers.
 
Ophelia23 said:
First, I would like to say thank you for everyone’s support and concern. I share the concern. I understand his behaviors are unacceptable. It took a lot of work–very humbling, difficult work–to reach that. I am working through all sorts of things. Shame. Embarrassment. Confusion. I understand how solutions can seem very clear when you are standing on the outside. If I saw myself on a tv screen, I would be yelling at the tv “Run! For goodness sakes, run!”

But there is so much more than black and white.

I am not making excuses. I am gathering my information. I am preparing. If I didn’t trust our physical safety, we would be gone. I have drawn the line in my mind and in my heart–if he steps too close to the line, we will be gone.

It is in my heart to remarry in the church, if this ends. I have every intention of still being a loving wife to someone. I have every hope of someone being a loving husband to me. I am just trying to gather information.

I am considering contacting my archdiocese to seek counsel from one of their representatives. ** I have a few hesitations to do so, because I am an employee of the archdiocese.** I just can’t get it out of my head that I need to tread lightly.

I appreciate your love and prayers.
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Yeah, I was wondering about that.

Maybe start with an appointment with a priest you know who is not your boss? Priests are used to keeping other people’s secrets.
 
Ophelia23 said:
…How does the annulment process work…? Does each diocese have someone we can meet with just to seek advice? I just want information. …
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Hello,

You may find a knowledgeable person at your local parish (some diocese try to have such a person in each parish or assigned to a group of neighboring parishes). If not, then the diocesan tribunal is the place to call. Anybody you talk to there should have some information. If you want more detail, then you’d want to talk to a canon lawyer. Your diocese’s website might have what you are looking for, too.

Dan
 
I am considering contacting my archdiocese to seek counsel from one of their representatives. I have a few hesitations to do so, because I am an employee of the archdiocese. I just can’t get it out of my head that I need to tread lightly.
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I’m an Archdiocesan employee as well.
While I understand that it can sometimes be (cough cough) problematic, I think you will find that they will move heaven and earth in situations like this to protect and help.
Don’t hesitate to tell your priest, the Dean of your Deanery, and anyone else you need to.
 
Ophelia,

I am sorry you are going through this; no one should, especially kids. If you have some place to go – a family members home, do so. Even a good friend that is willing to help take you in for a bit. You do not want this to escalate to more than just physical threats – where he starts to get physical. Not only towards you but your children. If you do leave – do not let him know before hand – if he has threatened you before you do not want him to lose it and get physical with you or your kids. Also do you want your children to grow to maturity thinking that this is the way a husband should treat his wife and children?

As for the annulment process – you will be able to file it after your divorce is complete. You can start on the paperwork prior but only file after your divorce. Talk to a Priest that understands your situation and is willing to help you through the process. There are about 60 or so questions, which can take a while to fill out so start early.

I had a Priest help me with mine, and the advice he gave me was to try and tie one question into the next. Such as “was there abuse prior to the marriage?” Then the next question maybe “when did problems begin? To tie them together can put something like there was no abuse prior –all was good and loving. Problems began when he lost his job for a while and the abuse began. It’s been years since my annulment so I cannot remember the questions. But the theory is the same.

The main thing is the safety and sanity of you and your children. Do not let your children grow up thinking that his behavior is not only acceptable but how a man should be.

I pray that God grants you peace and happiness. And protection from the abuse.

Winter
 
This is very general information on seeking a decree of nullity. One must be divorced prior to initiating a petition to the tribunal. If it is a lack of forum case, such as a Catholic not being married in the Church, or one of the parties was married prior and was not free to marry, the case is quickly resolved granted the documents needed are available.

If it’s not a lack of forum case it will most likely be a formal case. This one generally is the one most folks have anxiety about. One would need to fill out a several page petition to submit to the tribunal, then an even longer questionnaire. What the tribunal is looking for is the conditions at the time the marriage took place. Events that take place after the marriage are not conditions in and of themselves that would lead to a decree of nullity although they may be evidence of conditions that existed prior to the marriage.

If your dioceses has a web site it may have a tab about marriage cases. This is the one from mine. It has basic general information on the process.catholicidaho.org/CanonicalAffairs

The only person who can give you specific information on your situation is your priest or an advocate in your parish.
 
Ophelia23 said:
First, I would like to say thank you for everyone’s support and concern. I share the concern. I understand his behaviors are unacceptable. It took a lot of work–very humbling, difficult work–to reach that. I am working through all sorts of things. Shame. Embarrassment. Confusion. I understand how solutions can seem very clear when you are standing on the outside. If I saw myself on a tv screen, I would be yelling at the tv “Run! For goodness sakes, run!”

But there is so much more than black and white.

I am not making excuses. I am gathering my information. I am preparing. If I didn’t trust our physical safety, we would be gone. I have drawn the line in my mind and in my heart–if he steps too close to the line, we will be gone.

It is in my heart to remarry in the church, if this ends. I have every intention of still being a loving wife to someone. I have every hope of someone being a loving husband to me. I am just trying to gather information.

I am considering contacting my archdiocese to seek counsel from one of their representatives. I have a few hesitations to do so, because I am an employee of the archdiocese. I just can’t get it out of my head that I need to tread lightly.

I appreciate your love and prayers.
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I acknowledge that I am strictly an outsider and that I don’t know the entire situation. What I am about to say is purely out of concern for your children. If I overstep my bounds, please forgive me.

Re: the bolded part - I have been following your posts for a while now. You yourself have said that it took a lot of time and work to fully realize that your husband is verbally abusive. My concern is that, while you realize your husband is verbally abusive, you may not yet fully understand how damaging your husband’s abuse is to your children, even if their physical safety is not at stake. I’m not quite sure you completely realize that telling a 5-year-old that her mother is a ***** is devastatingly damaging to the child, even if she is not physically harmed. You will not see the scars your children have from this right away. They may smile and play and laugh and seem perfectly fine, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t hurting inside. It does not mean it will not affect their mental health, relationships, self-image, etc. throughout their lives. You may not see the signs of it for years, but it doesn’t mean the damage isn’t there.
 
Winter_Warlock said:
Ophelia,

I am sorry you are going through this; no one should, especially kids. If you have some place to go – a family members home, do so. Even a good friend that is willing to help take you in for a bit. You do not want this to escalate to more than just physical threats – where he starts to get physical. Not only towards you but your children. If you do leave – do not let him know before hand – if he has threatened you before you do not want him to lose it and get physical with you or your kids. Also do you want your children to grow to maturity thinking that this is the way a husband should treat his wife and children?

As for the annulment process – you will be able to file it after your divorce is complete. You can start on the paperwork prior but only file after your divorce. Talk to a Priest that understands your situation and is willing to help you through the process. There are about 60 or so questions, which can take a while to fill out so start early.

I had a Priest help me with mine, and the advice he gave me was to try and tie one question into the next. Such as “was there abuse prior to the marriage?” Then the next question maybe “when did problems begin? To tie them together can put something like there was no abuse prior –all was good and loving. Problems began when he lost his job for a while and the abuse began. It’s been years since my annulment so I cannot remember the questions. But the theory is the same.

The main thing is the safety and sanity of you and your children. Do not let your children grow up thinking that his behavior is not only acceptable but how a man should be.

I pray that God grants you peace and happiness. And protection from the abuse.

Winter
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👍👍👍👍👍👍👍:

Yes. The bolded part is also part of my concern. Winter has stated it very well.
 
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