I kinda support gay rights to marriage

[Renarax]

Hello
I’d like to begin by saying I was born as a non Christian religion (but was basically deist all the while since my parents religion made no sense to me) Now I have decided to become Christian and I’m trying to decide on orthodox or catholic. Oh yeah and I’m not gay.

I just wanted your opinion on this topic. Whether it’s sinful or not.

I genuinely feel that people can love anyone they want and should have the right to marry the ones who they love. While I certainly don’t condone it I’d go to one if I was invited (as long as the minister isn’t actually a priest.)
I mean they don’t have to get married in a christian style wedding right?

I’ve begun noticing that many Christians have started to support it. What about you?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I think it is sad that we have distorted marriage so much that we cannot agree on what it is for, what sexes it is between and how many people it should have in it. So, I ask you, what is marriage? Why did God make it a sacrament? And why should homosexuals be able to attain it. Bottom line, What do you think the purpose of marriage is?

 

[Scientia_Dei]

Nations that fail to form families suffer grave consequences, including loss of workers, loss of tax base, and decline in human ingenuity and productivity.
The question is not about denying individual rights but about promoting the good of the whole society.
Marriage and family provide benefits to society by producing, raising, and educating the next generation.
A strong family life offers the benefits of mental and emotional health. chastity.com/article/how-to-make-the-case-for-marriage-using-non-religious-language
Catholics can not support sodomy, science and reason also show us that homoesexual acts/“marriage” is harmful to society and to the very persons

 

[Renarax]

Nations that fail to form families suffer grave consequences, including loss of workers, loss of tax base, and decline in human ingenuity and productivity.
The question is not about denying individual rights but about promoting the good of the whole society.
Marriage and family provide benefits to society by producing, raising, and educating the next generation.
A strong family life offers the benefits of mental and emotional health. chastity.com/article/how-to-make-the-case-for-marriage-using-non-religious-language
Catholics can not support sodomy, science and reason also show us that homoesexual acts/“marriage” is harmful to society and to the very persons

I understand that but homosexuals are less likely to form families anyways right?
I mean even if there was a law against it I doubt gay people would start making real families

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I understand that but homosexuals are less likely to form families anyways right?
I mean even if there was a law against it I doubt gay people would start making real families

What do you mean “real families” Gay people adopt all the time.

I am curious if you have a lot of experience with either marriage or homosexuals?

 

[Renarax]

What do you mean “real families” Gay people adopt all the time.

I am curious if you have a lot of experience with either marriage or homosexuals?

Haha well I dont really have experience really. But yes I don’t support the adoption part but if it’s just marriage because of love . . . Why not?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Haha well I dont really have experience really. But yes I don’t support the adoption part but if it’s just marriage because of love . . . Why not?

So to you marriage is about “love” should sodomy be a part of it? What of the point of marriage being about procreation? What do you think marriage is?

 

[sudy]

Hello Renarax

I’ll try to explain the Church’s position on this to give you an idea of the bigger picture.

When God’s message first reaches us, we are asked to turn our backs on sin and try to follow Christ as well as we can.

God has given us some rules to obey if we love Him. One of these rules is to avoid sexual immorality. This is not simply homosexual relations, but also adultery, incest, bestiality, masturbation, etc. Now, the Bible explains that these sins lead to death (are punishable)… and we call these Mortal sin.

To us Catholics, marriage is something called a sacrament… which means that the Holy Church has said it is sacred, and it is clearly stated that in marriage the two become one flesh, and what God has joined together, man should not separate. It’s not simply the ‘bit of paper’ you may have read about.

Now, some people haven’t received or fully understood the message of our Lord, so initially it can seem hard to understand why all kinds of love aren’t acceptable. But the truth is that real love is always acceptable, but real love is not self indulgent. It’s not all about us, what we desire. Real love requires effort and is in direct conflict with sin. Being attracted to men isn’t where the real sin lies, the real sin is impure thoughts and actions… and this is something that very many of us struggle with, and we are called to chastity.

I’ll add that in the Bible it states that no temptation is too great that we can’t overcome it… we just have to try, as well as putting all of our trust in God.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

Hello
I genuinely feel that people can love anyone they want and should have the right to marry the ones who they love.

Anyone they want? What if they love two or three people and want to marry all of them? What if they decide they love someone who is married to someone else? What if the person they love is a minor? What if they want to marry their sibling?

 

[sudy]

@ EnglishTeacher Good points

 

[on_the_hill]

Nations that fail to form families suffer grave consequences, including loss of workers, loss of tax base, and decline in human ingenuity and productivity.

Whether or not gay people are married, they’re not going to give birth. So how would gay marriage lead to a decline in birth rates, which seems to be what you’re implying?

 

[on_the_hill]

Anyone they want? What if they love two or three people and want to marry all of them? What if they decide they love someone who is married to someone else? What if the person they love is a minor? What if they want to marry their sibling?

I’m always unsure of a position when it’s based on “what ifs?”

I’m not a supporter of gay marriage, but this argument never holds up, in my opinion.

 

[St_Francis]

Sex is for marriage and marriage is for procreation and providing the best type of loving environment for raising children.

Sex is not for recreational pleasure, showing how much you love someone you are not married to, or any of the other reasons our current society have attached to sex.

People who on a natural level have no capacity for having children (two of the same gender, for instance) can not form a marriage–that would be like my motorizing a wheelbarrow and calling it a car. Just because someone calls something “X” doesn’t make it an X, does it?

The issue of same sex marriage shoudl have caused us as a society to rethink our ideas of marriage to see how they had become so lost that we could even consider such a thing, but no. We think of marriage as being a bigger form of “going stready” that somes with a party; when we tire of the person, we break up with him or her and move on, just as we did before we married.

But marriage is supposed to be the establishment of a family, a unity of two people which is as strong as adoption or sibling-hood. Within the family is what is needed to form children well, so they can grow up and become full adults.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m always unsure of a position when it’s based on “what ifs?”

I’m not a supporter of gay marriage, but this argument never holds up, in my opinion.

I can see what that argument is weak sometimes. But the questions should be asked. If one is against a mother and son or father and son marrying then that sort of logic and reasoning can indeed have bearing on why other situations are or are not acceptable.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Haha well I dont really have experience really. But yes I don’t support the adoption part but if it’s just marriage because of love . . . Why not?

You know sometimes it is good to just simplify things to figure them out. The homosexual side has done a great job of cleansing and confusing the issue.

So, I offer this little story.

I have 4, soon to be 5, children. My four year old daughter is definitely a daddies girl. (they all are but she is especially vocal about it) One day she offered up that she was going to marry me. That is sweet. We love each other immensely. But I had to explain to her that you cannot marry your father. I must admit it is quite alarming when explaining marriage to a 4 year old these days. You can see just how far we have fallen. (when a man and woman love each other God makes them a family through marriage and children.) These days that is contested. However, marriage needs to be about those things for if it is not about sex, or procreation and just about “love” then what do I tell my daughter? That we cannot marry because the country discriminates against us and our love? No, of course that is a distortion and misunderstanding of what marriage and marital love is and was designed to be by God, and by sheer biology and anatomy, gay people cannot have that.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Hello Renarax

…Now, some people haven’t received or fully understood the message of our Lord, so initially it can seem hard to understand why all kinds of love aren’t acceptable. But the truth is that real love is always acceptable, but real love is not self indulgent. It’s not all about us, what we desire. Real love requires effort and is in direct conflict with sin. …the real sin is impure thoughts and actions… and this is something that very many of us struggle with, and we are called to chastity…

Aside from all of the excellent points made here by fellow Catholics - and they are excellent - I’d like to mention one more thing in light of the Theology of the Body.

It is very true many people do not understand what marriage is. Our Holy Father Pope St. John Paul II started by looking at what Christ said about marriage.

And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one’?[a] 6 So they are no longer two but one. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.****” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” 8 He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity,[c] and marries another, commits adultery; and he who marries a divorced woman, commits adultery.”

Consider the bolded parts. Yes, it is true this is about divorce. But divorce is only one of many compromises to marriage. And note that Jesus focuses less on the fact of divorce than on the nature of marriage. He says “In the beginning…”. Our Lord is appealing to the “beginning” of human nature.

Do you remember the first creation story in Genesis? How it ended?

“Let us make man in our image, after our likeness”. Consider, then, the events of the first creation story in light of this astounding fact: that, whatever we be as humans, He made us in His image. Read the Creation stories in Genesis 1 and 2 again, in light of that. Does it tell you anything?

Pope John Paul II had this revelation, briefly: that God’s life, in the Trinity, between Father, Son and Holy Spirit, is quite like the relationship between man and woman and child. In the Catholic Church, the Creed says the Holy Spirit “proceeds from the Father and the Son”. Consider how children come into the world. Is it not a co-operation of man and woman that causes children to be created - even in IVF or artificial insemination?

So the coital act, the marital act, the conjugal act, is an act 1) of creativity, just as God’s love created the entire universe, and 2) of unity, just as that creative love unites the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost in one nature - love.

 

[kozlosap]

At the very advanced age of 61, if I was to marry, it certainly would not be for purposes of procreation. It would be for love. In order to be able to argue against marriage equality, there needs to be a different rationale used, especially in the 21st century developed world.

 

[clem456]

Hello
…
I genuinely feel that people can love anyone they want and should have the right to marry the ones who they love.
…

I genuinely feel…
that I love J-Lo and she would be a suitable partner for me.
I should have the right to marry her (and keep my current wife )

My question for you is does feeling something make it a right?

I do love them. I really do. And I feel it.

 

[clem456]

At the very advanced age of 61, if I was to marry, it certainly would not be for purposes of procreation. It would be for love. In order to be able to argue against marriage equality, there needs to be a different rationale used, especially in the 21st century developed world.

Marriage is an image and sacrament of the inner life of the Trinity.
A sacrament is a sign that represents and effects the inner reality.
The homosexual act cannot do that by nature, because it is not a true unity of persons, and cannot fully pour itself out in self giving love.
The Trinity does both. A very popular idea these days (and always) is that God is love. For a couple to truly engage in conjugal love, there must be one man and one woman.

 

[clem456]

Whether or not gay people are married, they’re not going to give birth. So how would gay marriage lead to a decline in birth rates, which seems to be what you’re implying?

Simply, societal acceptance of it de-emphasizes procreation.
Disorder does not have an isolated effect. It permeates society, it becomes institutionalized. The same underlying philosophy that imagines gay “marriage” also accepts contraception, pornography, adultery, etc…
Disclaimer: this is not to say that gay people consume pornography etc…I am talking about how the philosophy is used in other ways. One can also say that abuse of women harms the birth rate, in that it disrupts marriage. Sin is never isolated in it’s effects. Even masturbation affects others.

Sexuality is taken outside it’s proper context, so the birth rate cannot help but decline.