I know I will get blasted for this thread

[Anglewannabe]

However, is this really the situation you’re in? If you are applying for many, many jobs that you want, and if you are finding that all of your applications get rejected, then it is eventually worth trying to figure out what the reason for that is. But it might be too soon to conclude this if you haven’t applied for a lot of jobs yet.
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The field I want to get into is heavily dependant on experience and I have none of it. The other ‘pickle’ I am in is I always worked in a field different than my education so I either have the education or the experience and most people want both

 

[Anglewannabe]

PS- The online date did work out. We’ve been married three years and have one beautiful girl and another on the way.

I was hoping the story would end like that

 

[Anglewannabe]

but I do suggest you try harder to view other people’s comments with charity.

The first time she said it, yes, I should have seen it with charity. But after me constantly telling her how everything about that field sounded like my dream job and for her to continue was blatantly telling me my opinions and feelings are wrong and bad. That is not nice.

As I stated before, I did start the conversation so now I know never to do that with her again. But I am really caught between a rock and a hard place. Everyone tells me I can’t get a better job because I refuse to network and every time I do network I get my feelings hurts badly.

The real icing on the cake was all this woman talked about were the recent jobs that were posted and filled and how I should apply for them If they have been filled then there is no way I will bet them. The more I think about it, this woman is off her rocker

 

[underacloud]

I know everyone will probably post about how all I do is complain about work. Nonetheless, I will post in the hope that some charitable person will offer a comforting response.

Do you want a comforting response or helpful advice? Because, frankly, I don’t think any of the responses that are comforting will be at all helpful. I believe they will be unhelpful with regard to your long term goals (better job, career advancement).

This woman wants to help you and knows of job openings that she thinks you would be suited to, and has offered to pass on your interest to others, but you want to dismiss her as out to hurt your feelings. For what purpose, her own amusement? As another poster commented, why not try to see her actions as charitable?

I have never understood - in any of your posts about work, jobs, etc - why you have such a hard time with people wanting to talk to you and potentially help you. You think they are “rubbing salt in your wounds” (a phrase you have used often). This is an unfair and unhelpful way to interpret the actions and words of others. If you want to progress in your career, you need to change this attitude. But if you don’t want to progress, don’t want to engage in anything that resembles networking in any way, and want to stay in your current job which you seem to hate, then by all means listen to those who want to comfort you.

Here endeth the blast.

 

[AKDee]

As I stated before, I did start the conversation so now I know never to do that with her again. But I am really caught between a rock and a hard place. Everyone tells me I can’t get a better job because I refuse to network and every time I do network I get my feelings hurts badly.

Ok, here’s an idea. Should a similar situation come up, you could say, “That sounds like a great position- can you help me connect with the right person?” If they really want to help you, they’ll help you network. If they just want to naysay, they’ll shut up because they’ll know you’ll put them on the spot.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Do you want a comforting response or helpful advice?

Both If a response is helpful the it IS comforting. It is when people ignore a lot of the variables and act as if I am simply complaining I find it uncharitable

This woman wants to help you and knows of job openings that she thinks you would be suited to, and has offered to pass on your** interest to others**, but you want to dismiss her as out to hurt your feelings. For what purpose, her own amusement?

This is where you (with all due respect) are mistaken. She told me about a few jobs that have just been filled. They are no longer up for grabs. So me applying would be totally useless. She did say she would talk to the hiring manager about the job I would did apply for, but that was only 1 hour after telling me the field I want to get into is no good.

Sadly, it has been my experience it may not be consciously for her amusement, but when people talk career as if they are helping you, they tend to just be talking to themselves in some for of self comforting

I have never understood - in any of your posts about work, jobs, etc -** why you have such a hard time with people wanting to talk to you and potentially help you**. You think they are “rubbing salt in your wounds” (a phrase you have used often). This is an unfair and unhelpful way to interpret the actions and words of others.

First of all, many of the people who ‘want to help me’ often say things I can’t count how many times I have heard. They are NOT telling me anything new. Or, they will suggest I do something I tried several times with no success and refuse to believe it doesn’t work and that I need a new approach. And lastly, these people often have been at the same job for years and genuinely have no idea what it is like to look for work. The reason I think they are rubbing salt on my wounds is because they started the conversation and when I politely say ‘I would rather not talk about it’ they continue to talk about it. As far as I am concerned, it does not matter what behaviour one does, when politely asked to stop one should stop

If you want to progress in your career, you need to change this attitude. But if you don’t want to progress, don’t want to engage in anything that resembles networking in any way, and want to stay in your current job which you seem to hate, then by all means listen to those who want to comfort you.

I agree that if I refuse to network, it potentially may mean I do not progress. (reason being is I have done enough networking in the past to know it doesn’t work). However, I need to balance emotional pain vs better job and sometimes I believe it is best to stay where I am rather than get hurt when there is a 99.9% chance I still won’t get the job

Here endeth the blast.

That was a small blast, it is OK

 

[Anglewannabe]

Ok, here’s an idea. Should a similar situation come up, you could say, “That sounds like a great position- can you help me connect with the right person?” If they really want to help you, they’ll help you network. If they just want to naysay, they’ll shut up because they’ll know you’ll put them on the spot.

I never thought about it like that before. It definitely would cut to the chase

 

[underacloud]

This is where you (with all due respect) are mistaken. She told me about a few jobs that have just been filled. They are no longer up for grabs. So me applying would be totally useless. She did say she would talk to the hiring manager about the job I would did apply for, but that was only 1 hour after telling me the field I want to get into is no good.

Ah, but I knew you’d say this.

The point is that job openings come and go. There will always be more jobs opening up and having contacts like her is helpful. Putting a word in with the hiring manager is helpful, and perhaps moreso before a job has opened up than after. Many jobs are filled without actually being advertised; for many managers/recruiters this is preferable. People who network well know this and are open to more possibilities than those who wait for jobs to be advertised.

Not only that, but many people are pretty lazy - if they have a position to fill and they know a friend who has a friend…

Sadly, it has been my experience it may not be consciously for her amusement, but when people talk career as if they are helping you, they tend to just be talking to themselves in some for of self comforting

Sure. But pay attention. There are lessons to be learned from other people’s successes and failures.

I agree that if I refuse to network, it potentially may mean I do not progress. (reason being is I have done enough networking in the past to know it doesn’t work). However, I need to balance emotional pain vs better job and sometimes I believe it is best to stay where I am rather than get hurt when there is a 99.9% chance I still won’t get the job

Networking doesn’t work most of the time for even those who are very good at it. But it’s about being open to many possibilities - many possible leads, possible opportunities.

Despite what I say Angie, I do sympathise. I hate networking too. I hate small-talk of most kinds, social or professional. I wish work would come my way without me actually having to interact with anyone. But it doesn’t.

I’d summarise my advice to you as follows:

a) be open to networking as best you can. It is frustrating, but it can open possibilities.

b) be charitable in your interpretation of others advice and help. I truly believe that most people mean well and aren’t trying to upset you. And I think you’ll be a happier person if you can put aside thoughts of others “pouring salt on your wounds”.

 

[AKDee]

Networking doesn’t work most of the time for even those who are very good at it. But it’s about being open to many possibilities - many possible leads, possible opportunities.

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Networking is the single most effective way to get a job. Hiring managers want to hire someone that has the best chance of working out in a job- they are much more likely to hire someone recommended to them by someone they trust than hiring someone who just walked in off the street, no matter how good the resume. Getting a job through a want ad or online job tool like Monster is far less effective. The first job I ever had I got by going down to Job Service and getting sent out to a job opening, but from that point on every single job I have ever had I got because I knew someone. A customer of mine from that first job hired me, then a former co-worker recruited me to a new company, then another former co-worker recommended me to another company, then a former customer hired me to work for the company they own. It’s not so much about networking only when an opportunity comes up, but rather networking all the time. Impress everyone you see. Impress your boss. Impress your co-workers. Impress your customers. Be friendly all the time. Work hard all the time. People do notice, and they will remember you when it matters.

 

[underacloud]

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Networking is the single most effective way to get a job.

Fair point. But it depends a little on what I meant.

It is a very effective - perhaps the most effective - way to get a job. But each given networking opportunity may in itself be fruitless. A good networker recognises that you make many connections and explore many opportunities, and one of them will be a good opportunity. As you say, be nice to and impress everyone. But a bad networker lets the dead ends get them down and gives up on the whole process.

I was trying to agree somewhat with Angie that networking can be frustrating in that most connections and leads are dead ends. But also reasure her that ultimately the process can be very fruitful.

Hiring managers want to hire someone that has the best chance of working out in a job- they are much more likely to hire someone recommended to them by someone they trust than hiring someone who just walked in off the street, no matter how good the resume.

Yes, very much agree, as per my comments in my previous post.

 

[AKDee]

A good networker recognises that you make many connections and explore many opportunities, and one of them will be a good opportunity. As you say, be nice to and impress everyone. But a bad networker lets the dead ends get them down and gives up on the whole process.

Ok, that makes sense. If someone only networks when they are actually seeking a job, I can see how that would be fruitless. It’s important to network all the time, although when I was younger I mostly just saw it as being nice, working hard and being sociable. I didn’t realize at the time I was networking. I found that out later, when I realized that it was landing me jobs. I never really had to look for a job, people would come to me with opportunities.

 

[InNomineDomini]

It just really hurt that yet again, I was hoping for something better and someone not only rubbed salt in my wounds for not being able to get a good job, they totally disrespected my personal opinion.

Perhaps consistently praying the *Litany of Humility *will make it easier to deal with these things.

Of course, your reaction is perfectly normal, in many ways, but we are called to so much more than just “normal.”

 

[Anglewannabe]

.** A customer of mine **from that first job hired me, then a former co-worker recruited me to a new company, then another former co-worker recommended me to another company, then a former customer hired me to work for the company they own. .

Exactly my point. You can not tell me of 1 single job you got because you networked with strangers. I have NEVER had customers in a position to hire. There were only 2 ex-coworkers of mine who have ever been in a position to hire me. Both of them started below me, I trained them and encouraged them to grow and the second they made it they forget my name. Trust me, if a former co-worker offered me a good job, I would take it

It’s not so much about networking only when an opportunity comes up, but rather networking all the time. Impress everyone you see. Impress your boss. Impress your co-workers. Impress your customers. Be friendly all the time. Work hard all the time. People do notice, and they will remember you when it matters.

True, but, when no one you work with is in a position to help you, then there is nothing one can do. It is like buying a lottery ticket.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Ah, but I knew you’d say this.

The point is that job openings come and go. There will always be more jobs opening up and having contacts like her is helpful. Putting a word in with the hiring manager is helpful, and perhaps moreso before a job has opened up than after. Many jobs are filled without actually being advertised; for many managers/recruiters this is preferable. People who network well know this and are open to more possibilities than those who wait for jobs to be advertised.".

But she was telling me about jobs in the company that had nothing to do with the field I was trying to get into. Employers don’t want someone who is wishy washy about what they want they look for people with career goals. I told her the field I wanted to get into and all she did was try to talk me out of it. She was trying to get me to apply for jobs where I would start at the top (every job she mentioned I do not have the experience for.) I think it would leave a bad impression for an employer if I walked in with the attitude I want to start at the top

Networking doesn’t work most of the time for even those who are very good at it. But it’s about being open to many possibilities - many possible leads, possible opportunities.

And this is where I have to prioritize. I have been so hurt, I can’t take it no more. I need to learn where to put the boundary so I don’t become suicidal. I am NOT suicidal, but I know if I do too much networking I will become it and that is NOT what I want. Sometimes I feel no one really believes the extent of pain I suffered. I don’t think ANYONE believes that I HAVE tried very hard to improve my situation. It hurts to constantly feel brushed aside like a liar

Despite what I say Angie, I do sympathise.

I believe you sympathy and I thank you for that. However, I don’t think you believe the extent of effort I have put in. I can’t count how many people have rolled their eyes at me clearly not believing I was trying. One such person was in my home and saw a folder with all the job descriptions of all the interviews I had went to. Her jaw dropped and she said 'Oh my, you really meant it when you said you try hard No one believes unless I prove it. That hurts

 

[Xantippe]

And this is where I have to prioritize. I have been so hurt, I can’t take it no more. I need to learn where to put the boundary so I don’t become suicidal. I am NOT suicidal, but I know if I do too much networking I will become it and that is NOT what I want. Sometimes I feel no one really believes the extent of pain I suffered. I don’t think ANYONE believes that I HAVE tried very hard to improve my situation. It hurts to constantly feel brushed aside like a liar

**How about doing just as much as you can do well and then stopping?

If that’s what you’re doing, that’s fine.**

I believe you sympathy and I thank you for that. However, I don’t think you believe the extent of effort I have put in. I can’t count how many people have rolled their eyes at me clearly not believing I was trying. One such person was in my home and saw a folder with all the job descriptions of all the interviews I had went to. Her jaw dropped and she said 'Oh my, you really meant it when you said you try hard No one believes unless I prove it. That hurts

It could be that you have been using up your spoons with mundane and unrewarding social interactions–you certainly seem to have a lot of those, judging from your CAF postings. Can you figure out how to budget your spoons better and maybe figure out activities that will yield more spoons for you?

See the origins section here to learn about “spoon theory”:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory

Other than that, it sounds like a basic problem is that you dislike and are annoyed by a lot of people and if they are at all sensitive, they can probably tell that you don’t like them. I’m sure the employment situation is tough enough without that issue, but that’s probably a big factor. People do not want to hire or recommend people that obviously dislike them.

 

[underacloud]

I don’t doubt your efforts Angie.

But it’s the part where you talk about people hurting you (or rubbing salt in wounds) that makes no sense. People are trying to help and for some reason you doubt their sincerity.

As for your comment about those roles being unsuitable - so what. A good hiring manager or recruiter is interested in meeting good people, not simply in filling particular jobs they have open.

You seem to have an answer/objection for every suggestion made - and yet, your own approach is not working and seems to make you miserable. You could wave the white flag and stay in your current job, but that’s also making you miserable. If I were you, I’d reconsider the advice you’ve been offered in this and other threads, and be more open minded about the advice and more charitable in the assumptions you make of others who try to help you.

 

[AKDee]

And this is where I have to prioritize. I have been so hurt, I can’t take it no more. I need to learn where to put the boundary so I don’t become suicidal. I am NOT suicidal, but I know if I do too much networking I will become it and that is NOT what I want. Sometimes I feel no one really believes the extent of pain I suffered. I don’t think ANYONE believes that I HAVE tried very hard to improve my situation. It hurts to constantly feel brushed aside like a liar

This is a disturbing statement and I have to say you are giving strangers and mere acquaintances entirely too much power over how you feel. Strangers should not have the power to hurt you like that, neither should acquaintances. Friends should have that type of power but in order to be your friend should never be the type to do so. If they do, they should be weeded out of your friends list because no one needs that type of negativity.

No one can hurt you emotionally unless you allow it. Why are you allowing it?

On the flip side- you need to stop expecting people to understand something that is internal to you (your pain) and you need to stop blaming them when they don’t. Especially if they aren’t close friends or family, but even if they are. Pain is subjective, not objective. No one but you and the Lord knows exactly what you’re going through.

 

[Anglewannabe]

But it’s the part where you talk about people hurting you (or rubbing salt in wounds) that makes no sense. People are trying to help and for some reason you doubt their sincerity.
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How does it not make sense. When I say they are rubbing salt in my wounds is situations where I say in CRYSTAL CLEAR English ‘I don’t want to talk about it’ and they continue. That is a 100% disrespect of my boundary. I am referring to people who bring it up everytime they seem regardless of the fact every time I say ‘I don’t want to talk about it’

The reality is, it doesn’t matter if they are sincere. Being sincere does NOT equate being helpful. Unhelpful, is unhelpful regardless of the intention

And the particular situation that started this whole thread was because I told some woman that it was my dream and it was 100% what I wanted and she could not respect that. She insisted on trying to change my mind. I don’t think that is what Dale Carnegie ever tauht

Angie

 

[underacloud]

How does it not make sense. When I say they are rubbing salt in my wounds is situations where I say in CRYSTAL CLEAR English ‘I don’t want to talk about it’ and they continue. That is a 100% disrespect of my boundary. I am referring to people who bring it up everytime they seem regardless of the fact every time I say ‘I don’t want to talk about it’

It is a fact of life - for all of us - that others will offer unsolicited advice to us. And some people do not understand others’ boundaries. But this needn’t “hurt” us. As AKDee said, it will only hurt if you allow it to. But regardless, in this case you did engage in conversation.

The reality is, it doesn’t matter if they are sincere. Being sincere does NOT equate being helpful. Unhelpful, is unhelpful regardless of the intention

Of course it matters if they are being sincere. People who treat us with good intentions are deserving of more respect and gratitude than you seem prepared to give them.

And - to be frank Angie - I don’t believe you know how to tell the difference between helpful and unhelpful advice in this context. You dismiss good advice such as trying to understand emotional intellegence (from another thread) and the importance of networking, and other advices offered. You dismiss all suggestions, and yet don’t have any solutions of your own.

And the particular situation that started this whole thread was because I told some woman that it was my dream and it was 100% what I wanted and she could not respect that. She insisted on trying to change my mind. I don’t think that is what Dale Carnegie ever tauht

This woman told you something you didn’t want to hear; maybe for your own good, maybe not. But you engaged her in the conversation. And she offered to try to help you. If you want other people’s help, then you can be expected to allow their (name removed by moderator)ut on the best way to help you.

And now you want to reference Dale Carnegie - who wrote about developing interpersonal skills and how to influence people - and yet your standard mantra seems to be “I don’t want to talk about it”.

 

[Anglewannabe]

It is a fact of life - for all of us - that others will offer unsolicited advice to us. And some people do not understand others’ boundaries. But this needn’t “hurt” us. As AKDee said, it will only hurt if you allow it to. But regardless, in this case you did engage in conversation.

Yes I agree that in this case I started the conversation. Which is why I let it go on for an hour. The only reason it stopped was because she wanted to get going. Since I started it, I did not think I had the right to end it (if that makes sense)

Of course it matters if they are being sincere. People who treat us with good intentions are deserving of more respect and gratitude than you seem prepared to give them.

hhmmmm… I can’t help but think a truly sincere person would not be pushy

And - to be frank Angie - I don’t believe you know how to tell the difference between helpful and unhelpful advice in this context. You dismiss good advice such **as trying to understand emotional intellegence **(from another thread) and the importance of networking, and other advices offered. You dismiss all suggestions, and yet don’t have any solutions of your own…

That actually is not true. I got a couple of books from the library and I skimmed them. I must admit I did not read them all but went more to the chapters that I felt would be relevant for my work situation