I leave Catholicism and religion (warning rant)

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Harmony1988

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After having been Catholic for 20 years (all my life), though not all periods have been really ‘Catholic’ - it was only about 2 years ago that I became more ‘aware’ of my actions and my typical rock and roll lifestyle.

Slowly I started to change, embraced the faith more. Things got better,I started reading the bible more, my attitude changed. I became more helpful towards people. I prayed way more, fasted, did novenas for others. But more lately, I’ve just started to look at myself, what has happened to me, personally? Sure I’ve got to know more about the faith, theologically, philosophically and actually living it out, but it hasn’t really helped me except a few days at a time where I think wow this has really helped me, but I think now that is more based on wishful thinking, a hope that because everyone says this and this it must be true.

Why do people get drunk, engage in pre-marital sex, get high everyday and pretty much break every single commandment there is and still have a decent life:
  1. A good salary
  2. A job
  3. Girlfriend/wife
Now, I’m not saying this is all there is to life, but considering the marriage vocation, that is probably the 3 main things after the spiritual side of things with God. If you have a bad salary, you will struggle, as simple as that, if you don’t have a job, you will struggle, as simple as that. Now I have friends that are like this, I am in no way jealous of them or their positions, I pray(ed) for them and I hope they lead the most fulfilling life they possibly can.

But I have to wonder why, I tire myself out doing all this, plus working hard enough in uni, but being borderline pass/fail, not having a job, not having a girlfriend and clueless about where life takes me. Why would any of my friends think about becoming Christian when their life is good? Why do I have to remain Christian when nothing good comes out of it, except some people draw some abstractions on a future ‘beyond’ and that we have to live for that.

Cut the bs, if you were all so darned into that stuff, you might as well go to Africa and help out the kids there, that way you can store treasures for heaven.

I have had changed my lifestyle completely, I used to illegally download, watch porn, listen to satanic music, I gave all that up. I’ve spent hours defending the faith and God against total nuts, places where I used to ‘hang out’ on the web.

What has doing all this for God gotten me? Nowhere, it built up hope that wasn’t fulfilled. I’m not interested in hearing people talking about the ‘future’ - I’ve read Spe Salvi, the latest encyclical by the Pope plenty of times and I’ve probably read all there is to know about this Christian based hope.

I am still a theist, I acknowledge the existence of a God, and more specifically a Christian one, because it is rational, but I refuse to accept that he does care about his creation.

Edit: I’d like to also add, that I do not hate the Church or the Pope or anyone like that, my feelings towards the people and the popes and the cardinals and etc. remain as they always have been, a thing of profound reverance. Especially the people in the forums here.
 
Hi Harmony1988:

I understand your dilemma. But it seems to me that your looking for things outside yourself to make you happy. Why are you looking at those that “seem” to have it all?

We may not be able to control all aspects of our lives…and as you continue to live yours, you’ll find that life is full of disappointments, no matter what stage or social status you may be at or trying to achieve.

You are not putting any credence into what changes have occurred in your life. In my view, you have given value to yourself, as God wanted you to, and that, my friend, is more treasure than those you see who seem to have everything yet continue to live as if they do not matter.

Give yourself time. Don’t abandon the Church for temporal and material things of this world. Don’t let the treasures of our Faith slip through your hands.

I’m heading off to the First Communion Mass for my son…I’ll pray for you while I’m there.

God Bless.
 
Harmony1988 said:
Why do people get drunk, engage in pre-marital sex, get high everyday and pretty much break every single commandment there is and still have a decent life:
  1. A good salary
  2. A job
  3. Girlfriend/wife
…

Now, I’m not saying this is all there is to life…

Why would any of my friends think about becoming Christian when their life is good? Why do I have to remain Christian when nothing good comes out of it, except some people draw some abstractions on a future ‘beyond’ and that we have to live for that.

Cut the bs, if you were all so darned into that stuff, you might as well go to Africa and help out the kids there, that way you can store treasures for heaven.

I have had changed my lifestyle completely, I used to illegally download, watch porn, listen to satanic music, I gave all that up. I’ve spent hours defending the faith and God against total nuts, places where I used to ‘hang out’ on the web.
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Hi Harmony,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. God bless you for that. You are giving a witness to all of us about God’s graces - (did you realize that? 😉 )

I wanted give thanks to God that He has given you graces, which is the thing above all material needs. I think this is the most thing you need to focus on:

With God’s graces, you are able to change your lifestyle.
  • You are able to stop downloading illegal stuff
  • Stop watching porn
  • Stop listening to bad music
  • Have zeal for your faith.
Have you realized that by giving up all the bad stuff, you are emptying yourself out and starting to allow God, in His time, to continue filling in what is not of this world, but of His world, into your soul?

Friend, while many people out there consider it stupid and useless, many others see this the most important treasure that you have ever received in your life so far.

“If therefore ye have been raised with the Christ, seek the things which are above, where the Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God: have your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are on the earth; for ye have died, and your life is hid with the Christ in God. When the Christ is manifested who is our life, then shall ye also be manifested with him in glory.” (Colossians 3:1-4)
 
Thanks tonks for your gesture of kindness, but don’t bother, I don’t care much for prayers anymore, these are just raising hopes.

I don’t care for money, I never have. If I had $1,000,000, I’d give it away. Why? Because my parents are like that, I still keep some values. But I refuse to trust or hope in abstractions.

If ONLY God can make us fully happy, why do people get married? Why even bother going into a relationship, why even get a job? Grow vegetables in the garden and eat them because God will take care of the rest. By experience we know this is false. So therefore if I’m looking for things outside myself, we all are.
 
Yes, that was a rant. And guess what? I understand.

whew, been there!

You know really, let’s look at a deeper surface of it all. What is life? Is it really doing all those things, “getting away with it” as you think everyone is doing?

Come on, really, do you think they are all getting away with it? What about the soul? Most, nearly all people, appear to have it all together, whether their life is full of sin or not. But really we are all in the same boat here, it’s just how we go about swimming.

Then when you look at the life of Jesus…what did dying on the cross get Him? hum … One thing that I’ve learned through all these life experiences, the true freedom is to die to yourself and love others, not with your own heart, but with the heart of Jesus.

Once you die to yourself, life gets easier. Believe it or not. It’s taken me a while to really see all of that.

I don’t think you hate the Church, I think you are just going through a time in your spiritual journey that just may be needed for you to go through.
 
Harmony1988 said:
Why do people get drunk, engage in pre-marital sex, get high everyday and pretty much break every single commandment there is and still have a decent life
Click to expand...
Where exactly does the Church teach that only Catholics get to have nice things, or even that they will? The prosperity gospel is a farce and a fraud.
Why would any of my friends think about becoming Christian when their life is good?
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Who knows? 🙂 It isn’t only the downtrodden who get religion.
Why do I have to remain Christian when nothing good comes out of it, except some people draw some abstractions on a future ‘beyond’ and that we have to live for that.
Click to expand...
You don’t. But your reasoning behind apostasy is total weaksauce, and seems founded on a distorted view of what the Church promises. It guarantees nothing in life. A homeless bum who shambles into church every week is just as Catholic as the old money who shows up in a chauffeured luxury car – and if Jesus’ teachings or the lives of the saints are anything to go by, the former is much more common. Catholicism isn’t about gratification at all: it’s New Testament unconditional sacrifice of the self with a dash of Old Testament blood and thunder.

If you’re going to leave Catholicism behind, do so. But for the sake of all the rest of us apostates, please let it be for a better reason than ‘I didn’t get a pony for Christmas’. That just makes us look bad and lends an air of banality to what is for many of us a torturous journey.
I am still a theist, I acknowledge the existence of a God, and more specifically a Christian one, because it is rational, but I refuse to accept that he does care about his creation.
Click to expand...
Then why profess Christianity at all, considering the whole idea behind it is that God does care, albeit in a rather strange way?
 
Harmony1988 said:
If ONLY God can make us fully happy, why do people get married? Why even bother going into a relationship, why even get a job? Grow vegetables in the garden and eat them because God will take care of the rest. By experience we know this is false. So therefore if I’m looking for things outside myself, we all are.
Click to expand...
There’s earthly happiness and then there’s spiritual happiness. I had a great meal yesterday evening, ate brownies afterward, and then watched some of my favorite movies :D. It was a great night. That’s earthly happiness.

Yesterday, I also spent countless moments praising God throughout the day for different parts of his creation, for what he has done, for what he has given me, etc. Whenever I did this, I felt God’s presence and love for me fill me up, and that joy in the presence of God has given me strength even as I convert to Catholicism from Protestantism and experience sorrow as my family rejects the choice and feels hurt because of it. Earthly sorrow or happiness changes and goes back and forth. The joy in the presence of the Lord is not so easily thrown about.

St. Paul said, “…for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do everything through him who gives me strength.” (Philippians 4: 11 – 13)

It is God that enabled Paul and Silas to sing and praise the Lord while in prison. It is he that enabled the disciples to rejoice that they had been considered worthy to suffer for the kingdom of heaven, after they were flogged.

Earthly sorrow and happiness varies and bounces back and forth. We all experience both. But the joy of the Lord is a bedrock.

The secret to finding that joy is thanksgiving.
 
Harmony,

What is different now for you versus when you started to change and embrace the faith?

Is it just that you see non-Christians having good things, or is it something else? Have you lost enthusiasm? Lost a sense of feeling close to God?
 
Ask yourself, what did Jesus, who is God the Son, have better than yourself or anyone else?

Being Divine, he humbled Himself and became man. Consider what this means. Even though he had a Divine nature, he chose to take on a human nature. He had to be born, had to grow up. He got colds and felt pain. He had to live with stupid men and in the end, be put to death by sinners. Yet, he chose to allow this to happen to Himself, because of His great love for us.

So, how can we sinners demand that God remove all suffering in the world, when He himself suffered the same and worse?

Jim
 
Harmony1988 said:
Thanks tonks for your gesture of kindness, but don’t bother, I don’t care much for prayers anymore, these are just raising hopes.

I don’t care for money, I never have. If I had $1,000,000, I’d give it away. Why? Because my parents are like that, I still keep some values. But I refuse to trust or hope in abstractions.

If ONLY God can make us fully happy, why do people get married? Why even bother going into a relationship, why even get a job? Grow vegetables in the garden and eat them because God will take care of the rest. By experience we know this is false. So therefore if I’m looking for things outside myself, we all are.
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Just because God keeps us fully happy (or can) doesn’t mean we cannot have other joys (like marriage). Indeed, when I look at the most fulfilling joys - love, philanthropy/volunteerism, art, etc etc - I notice that they all seem to come from God. Marriage is, of course, a symbol for the union between God and Man, helping others is Christ’s central commandment, art is an act of creation which creates fulfillment by mimicking the Creator.

So you see, the things which can really satisfy someone (I don’t mean sex, drugs and rock and roll) all come very closely from God. And, far from decreasing this joy, I’ve found that the happiest people I’ve met in my life we all very devout Christians. They enjoy God’s gifts in the way that God intended, and enjoying God only makes their lives better.
 
you shouldn’t do good because you are going to get some sort of earthly reward. You should do good because it is good. Don’t expect to have a glamorous life just because you are religious.

Some of the most religious people I know have cancer, are poor, or can barely make ends meet.

Aristotle says that true happiness comes from doing good.
 
Harmony1988 said:
Thanks tonks for your gesture of kindness, but don’t bother, I don’t care much for prayers anymore, these are just raising hopes.

I don’t care for money, I never have. If I had $1,000,000, I’d give it away. Why? Because my parents are like that, I still keep some values. But I refuse to trust or hope in abstractions.

If ONLY God can make us fully happy, why do people get married? Why even bother going into a relationship, why even get a job? Grow vegetables in the garden and eat them because God will take care of the rest. By experience we know this is false. So therefore if I’m looking for things outside myself, we all are.
Click to expand...
Read Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians.
 
Mirdath said:
Where exactly does the Church teach that only Catholics get to have nice things, or even that they will? The prosperity gospel is a farce and a fraud.

Who knows? 🙂 It isn’t only the downtrodden who get religion.

You don’t. But your reasoning behind apostasy is total weaksauce, and seems founded on a distorted view of what the Church promises. It guarantees nothing in life. A homeless bum who shambles into church every week is just as Catholic as the old money who shows up in a chauffeured luxury car – and if Jesus’ teachings or the lives of the saints are anything to go by, the former is much more common. Catholicism isn’t about gratification at all: it’s New Testament unconditional sacrifice of the self with a dash of Old Testament blood and thunder.

If you’re going to leave Catholicism behind, do so. But for the sake of all the rest of us apostates, please let it be for a better reason than ‘I didn’t get a pony for Christmas’. That just makes us look bad and lends an air of banality to what is for many of us a torturous journey.

Then why profess Christianity at all, considering the whole idea behind it is that God does care, albeit in a rather strange way?
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I am not interested in having a theological battle with you at the moment.
 
Harmony1988 said:
I am not interested in having a theological battle with you at the moment.
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That’s fine, and I’m not particularly interested in duking it out with you either. You want to go for apostasy, great – I’m way ahead of you there. Just: your reasons for doing so are shortsighted and, if I may say, stupid. For the love of Bob, come up with a better justification for the whole thing. It’s not like I don’t think there’s good reason to become apostate, but it isn’t that reason.
 
Mirdath said:
That’s fine, and I’m not particularly interested in duking it out with you either. You want to go for apostasy, great – I’m way ahead of you there. Just: your reasons for doing so are shortsighted and, if I may say, stupid. For the love of Bob, come up with a better justification for the whole thing. It’s not like I don’t think there’s good reason to become apostate, but it isn’t that reason.
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The fact that you are agnostic and haven’t embraced or recognize a certain ideal as true leaves you in a precarious position when it comes to judging other people’s ‘reasons’. It remains relative in your case, sorry.
 
The strangest thing just happened, as I was thinking of slandering God across the internet. My mum comes and says hey, take this medal. I’m like what is it.

Then she say’s it’s St. Jude. I look at the back of the package and it says:

St. Jude - Patron saint of hopeless cases and includes a prayer.
 
Harmony1988 said:
The strangest thing just happened, as I was thinking of slandering God across the internet. My mum comes and says hey, take this medal. I’m like what is it.

Then she say’s it’s St. Jude. I look at the back of the package and it says:

St. Jude - Patron saint of hopeless cases and includes a prayer.
Click to expand...
Now, if that isn’t a God slap I don’t know what is! 😃

Ha!

God bless.

St. Jude please pray for Harmony1988, intercede to our Lord all of his hopelessness. Amen
 
Harmony1988 said:
The strangest thing just happened, as I was thinking of slandering God across the internet. My mum comes and says hey, take this medal. I’m like what is it.

Then she say’s it’s St. Jude. I look at the back of the package and it says:

St. Jude - Patron saint of hopeless cases and includes a prayer.
Click to expand...
St. Jude - patron saint of the impossible. 🙂 I had once lost hope in finding a job in the field I studied. Working after 2 years, with my girlfriend’s praying and asking him for his intercession, I got a better job which provide me an apartment to stay and food to eat. She too has a full time during the time we prayed the 9-day novena to Saint Jude.

But having job is not the end of all things. It is just a mean for me and my girlfriend to do what God calls us to do - help others spiritually through prayers and financially through some small donations.
 
water said:
Hi Harmony,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. God bless you for that. You are giving a witness to all of us about God’s graces - (did you realize that? )

I wanted give thanks to God that He has given you graces, which is the thing above all material needs. I think this is the most thing you need to focus on:

With God’s graces, you are able to change your lifestyle.
  • You are able to stop downloading illegal stuff
  • Stop watching porn
  • Stop listening to bad music
  • Have zeal for your faith.
Have you realized that by giving up all the bad stuff, you are emptying yourself out and starting to allow God, in His time, to continue filling in what is not of this world, but of His world, into your soul?
Click to expand...
:amen:
DJgang said:
Now, if that isn’t a God slap I don’t know what is! 😃
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And another AMEN to this 🙂

Harmony, it is quite clear to several of us on this thread that God IS working in your life 🙂

If you have not already done so, I would recommend reading the book ‘Mere Christianity’ by C.S. Lewis. There is SO much helpful information there, especially for those who are new followers of Christ (I say ‘new’ in your case, since you mentioned having a real conversion of heart 2 years ago. I consider myself ‘new’ also, since it’s been just over 2 years for me). Lewis doesn’t pull any punches, he gives readers some much-needed ‘smacks with spiritual 2x4s!’ 👍

Here is a passage from that book which came to mind when you mentioned how you had made changes in your life, but weren’t seeing any tangible rewards:

If there was any idea that God had set us a sort of exam and that we might get good marks by deserving them, that has to be wiped out. If there was any idea of a sort of bargain - any idea that we could perform our side of the contract and thus put God to our debt so that it was up to Him, in mere justice, to perform His side - that has to be wiped out.

I think every one who has some vague belief in God, until he becomes a Christian, has the idea of an exam, or of a bargain in his mind. The first result of real Christianity is to blow that idea into bits. When they find it blown into bits, some people think this means that Christianity is a failure and give up. They seem to imagine that God is very simple-minded. In fact, of course, He knows all about this. One of the very things Christianity was designed to do was to blow this idea to bits. God has been waiting for the moment at which you discover that there is no question of earning a pass mark in this exam, or putting Him in your debt.

Then comes another discovery. Every faculty you have, your power of thinking or of moving your limbs from moment to moment, is given you by God. If you devoted every moment of your whole life exclusively to His service you could not give Him anything that was not in a sense His own already. So that when we talk of a man doing anything for God or giving anything to God, I will tell you what it is really like. It is like a small child going to its father and saying, ‘Daddy, give me sixpence to buy you a birthday present.’ Of course, the father does, and he is pleased with the child’s present. It is all very nice and proper, but only an idiot would think that the father is sixpence to the good on the transaction. [me: this analogy makes me laugh every time!] When a man has made these two discoveries God can really get to work. It is after this that real life begins. The man is awake now. We can now go on to talk of Faith in the second sense.

If you like, you can read the book online here:

philosophyforlife.com/mc21.htm

… although, being the old-fashioned gal that I am, I prefer the actual hard-copy book with paper and ink 😉 But whichever format you choose, I hope that you will read it. I can’t say enough good things about this book, it’s so full of wisdom, leavened with wonderful warm humor 🙂
 
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