I love this kind of catholic who supports the mormons...

[why_me]

https://www.marketwatch.com/latest-news

Former Catholic Bishop of Salt Lake City Decries Religious Bigotry in Political Ad; Defends LDS Role in California Ballot Initiative Protecting Traditional Marriage

SACRAMENTO, Calif., Nov 07, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) – The following statement was released today by Bishop William Weigand, head of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Sacramento and former Bishop of Salt Lake City, in response to attacks on the Mormon Church for supporting California’s Proposition 8, defending the traditional definition of marriage:
"Catholics stand in solidarity with our Mormon brothers and sisters in support of traditional marriage–the union of one man and one woman–that has been the major building block of Western Civilization for millennia.
"The ProtectMarriage coalition, which led the successful campaign to pass Proposition 8, was an historic alliance of people from every faith and ethnicity. LDS were included–but so were Catholics and Jews, Evangelicals and Orthodox, African-Americans and Latinos, Asians and Anglos.
"Bigoted attacks on Mormons for the part they played in our coalition are shameful and ignore the reality that Mormon voters were only a small part of the groundswell that supported Proposition 8.
"As the former bishop of the Diocese of Salt Lake City, I can attest to the fact that followers of the Mormon faith are a good and generous people with a long history of commitment to family and giving to community causes.
"I personally decry the bigotry recently exhibited towards the members of the Church of the Latter Day Saints–coming from the opponents of Proposition 8, who ironically, have called those of us supporting traditional marriage intolerant.
“I call upon the supporters of same-sex marriage to live by their own words–and to refrain from discrimination against religion and to exercise tolerance for those who differ from them. I call upon them to accept the will of the people of California in the passage of Proposition 8.”
SOURCE: Roman Catholic Diocese of Sacramento

 

[Alix1912]

I think the Bishop did the right thing.

He is not endorsing the Mormon church but rather the idea of a traditional marriage. Saying they are generally good and decent people is true also. So are most Catholic people I know, and many members of other faiths.

It is important that we support each other on issues where our churches agree. When we constantly bicker and fight that is when gay marriage and abortion and other moral issues fall by the wayside.

I’m Lutheran, but I was always the first one to jump to the defense of my friends who were catholic when someone was unjustly critizing them or misstating their doctrine.

This bishop isn’t condoning Mormonism, he is simply agreeing with their stance on gay marriage.

 

[Casen]

I think Mormons, Catholics and Protestants should spend less time arguing about doctrine and more time working together on these types of issues. As the world gets more and more wicked we will need to stand together on these social issues. Where we agree let’s work together and when we disagree lets politely respect our differences. That’s probably not as much fun on a forum… but it’s the right thing to do and serves us all.

 

[why_me]

I think Mormons, Catholics and Protestants should spend less time arguing about doctrine and more time working together on these types of issues. As the world gets more and more wicked we will need to stand together on these social issues. Where we agree let’s work together and when we disagree lets politely respect our differences. That’s probably not as much fun on a forum… but it’s the right thing to do and serves us all.

My point exactly. Unfortunately, those catholics who tend to be more antimormonish have kept away from this thread. It would be great to get their opinion about it all.

 

[BartBurk]

I’m glad Bishop Weigand is supporting the Mormons as I have done on this issue many times in the last few weeks. I’m happy to support Mormons in their good efforts as long as it isn’t misinterpreted as agreeing with Mormonism. We have to argue against Mormon doctrine which is patently false especially when Mormons are leading so many Catholics astray.

 

[nebula]

why me,

Most Catholics who come to these forums would probably be able to agree with the spirit of the bishop. The thing is, the forum is designed to debate and discuss religion. If you found religious disagreement distasteful, it would be foolish to come here where that disagreement is likely to find expression.

If it comes down to it, the Catholic church does not recognize Mormon baptisms as valid *and *vice versa. It’s that fact which fuels the kind of disagreement you seem to find distasteful.

 

[Jerusha]

I already got it written:

Some anti-Mormons are just as virulent as Brighamites. Demonstrators are seen on a regular basis on Temple Square in Salt Lake City. Other people are downright rude to LDS missionaries, unintentionally confirming the missionaries’ belief that LDS are a persecuted people. People have written books which portray Mormonism as having no redeeming value, thus alienating LDS people, rather than moderating their views or converting them. Non-Mormon or ex-Mormon refugees from Mormon-dominated areas of the country have difficulty finding employment because potential employers fear hiring Mormon whiners and bigots, and are prohibited from enquiring into their religious background. Perhaps the greatest social stigma is a degree from Brigham Young University. One can apply Newton’s third law of physics to this, “For every [radical] action there is an equal and opposite reaction”. Again, Black Muslims, radical homosexuals, and alcoholics who cannot quit drinking because LDS don’t drink and they don’t want to be accused of being Mormon, are examples of such reactions.

some omitted here. more…

 

[Jerusha]

The LDS have for years offended and mocked Masons for appropriating their rituals for their ordinances, Catholics and their church and many other churches, Natives and other people of color, and Jews. Today, they hold all Muslims responsible for all terrorist acts and further inflame them.
Mormonism imitates many aspects of Catholicism without truly understanding it. The “Mother Goddess”, a frequently denied doctrine, is an imitation of Marian doctrines. LDS eagerly and anxiously seek to obey every pronouncement of their “Pope”, while Catholics read Papal documents critically, to follow their logic and documentation and understand the “whys” of teachings. Mormonism imitates Catholic Church hierarchy, while placing people with minimal qualifications in positions of responsibility. The temple recommend interview is a mockery of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, which, in contrast, is confidential and characterized by forgiveness. The doctrine of deification or exaltation of Mormonism, a sign of pride, is contrasted by the theosis of Catholicism, in which God guides those who seek Him and His Will, most particularly, through the Sacrament of the Eucharist. LDS limitation of God only serves to deify living humans.
Baptism for the dead can be compared to the Catholic doctrine of prayer for the dead. It can also be seen as an obsession and compulsion with baptism, reflecting a belief that it forgives one’s ancestors’ sins and therefore relieves one’s own pain. However, studying one’s family history can have a therapeutic benefit in understanding the culture of one’ own family. In Catholic theology, Purgatory is an acknowledgment that even the person who is totally dedicated to doing God’s will sometimes falls short. Many Protestants believe that once “saved”, they are free to do whatever they wish, because they cannot lose their salvation.
Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation. For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will. And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations: that you may be blameless and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation: among whom you shine as lights in the world. (Phil. 2:12-15)

Protestants do not recognize 2 Maccabees as being Scripture, despite the fact that it was recognized so by the Jews of Jesus’ time, and Jews still study it.
On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his men went to gather up the bodies of the slain and bury them with their kinsmen in their ancestral tombs .But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain. They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden. Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin. (2 Mac. 12:39-46).

The one Mormon doctrine that Catholics have the least business attacking is baptism for the dead.
Perhaps the worst offense to Catholics is the concept of theocracy. LDS frequently wear rings inscribed with the letters “CTR” inscribed on them. This means “Choose the Right”, or, “Vote Conservative Republican”. The Republican Party today is dependent on massive LDS contributions, and the Mormon block vote in Utah, Idaho, and other states with a large LDS population. Many Republicans are therefore blind to negative aspects of LDS culture. Those who are not must look to an alliance with the Democratic Party to work through this division within the Republican Party, and return to their roots.

“A house divided against itself cannot stand." I believe this government cannot endure, permanently, half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other. Either the opponents of slavery will arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction; or its advocates will push it forward, till it shall become alike lawful in all the States, old as well as new — North as well as South. (Lincoln, 1858)

 

[notsmart]

The Bishop sounds like an excellent God fearing man and I support what he said one hundred percent.
I would hope that if catholics were the ones being attacked in this case over this issue, that their Mormon representative would do the very same thing also. But, even if they would not, that does not matter. Catholics ought to be the ones setting the moral tone for christians world wide.

 

[Jerusha]

Brighamites, with their uniquely fluid “system” of belief, might someday find that non-LDS who have thoroughly studied their faith acknowledge that there is something good about their beliefs. Their deeply pathological defensiveness might evaporate, and they could come to realize that they can converse rationally with non-LDS about their book, and come to an agreement. This agreement is that the Book of Mormon has great value as a historical document. However, in order to find where it has great value, we must also acknowledge that large parts of it are so objectionable that it inspired a man as evil as Adolph Hitler.

 

[Jerusha]

In a turnabout, today people mock Mormonism. They mock those great and spacious buildings which are the LDS temples, the sacred undergarments, white baker’s caps and green aprons and other accoutrements worn as temple clothing, baptism for the dead, Adam as God, Jesus as the brother of Satan, the Book of Mormon as entirely the product of Joseph Smith’s insane and sociopathic imagination, Quakers on the Moon, Kolob, the death of Shiz, people of color becoming white upon conversion, and even Jesus’ appearance on the North American continent. Most are products of the imagination, without foundation, like the “great and spacious” building. Many Brighamites, confronted with these teachings and practices, deny as many as they can, say that those teachings and practices have been abandoned, or claim that they are too sacred to talk about. They become very defensive, and their persecution complex awakens.
Their reaction is as if they have embarked on a suicidal course with the exposure of the lies of their religion, and are determined to bring the rest of the world down with them, as a self-fulfillment of their apocalyptic prophecies. Taking another look at the nature of prophecy, Jonah contains an excellent analysis of prophecy as a warning. A true prophet, when called to that role, will resist it, and approach it with caution and “fear and trembling”. A true prophecy will serve as a warning, not as a map of the future. When seen in this light, the Book of Revelations and many other prophecies will be understood. If it is God’s will that life on Earth will end, Christianity, fully fulfilled, will guarantee that it will happen through Nature’s course, not through the actions of man. May we always have that faith, as we, blind by nature, feel our way through history, always searching for the light of that which is good, right, just, and Godly.

I think that is balanced. It is a tricky, very delicate situation

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Good doctrine is definitely important; and we cannot agree with Mormons on doctrine, but there are couple of things that seem to be overlooked.

First, who are we to criticize the Bishop? I know in the US at this time in history the idea of assenting to authority is very unpopular, but when God has given authority, we must respect that.

Second, remember the parable of the Good Samaritan. “Samaritan” was not just some ethnic term. The Good Samaritan was not Jewish, and did not follow the Law or believe the Prophets. He did not know truth. But Jesus called him “good” and his Jewish contemporaries who had been blessed with the fullness of truth were judged for failing to show goodness.

I think we should follow this example with Mormons by honoring their sincere goodness. They are upholders of morality. When we affirm their goodness, we open a door to allow them to draw near us, and the Holy Spirit has an opportunity to present to these people the truth of Christ in a quiet, respectful way.

 

[BartBurk]

In a turnabout, today people mock Mormonism. They mock those great and spacious buildings which are the LDS temples, the sacred undergarments, white baker’s caps and green aprons and other accoutrements worn as temple clothing, baptism for the dead, Adam as God, Jesus as the brother of Satan, the Book of Mormon as entirely the product of Joseph Smith’s insane and sociopathic imagination, Quakers on the Moon, Kolob, the death of Shiz, people of color becoming white upon conversion, and even Jesus’ appearance on the North American continent. Most are products of the imagination, without foundation, like the “great and spacious” building. Many Brighamites, confronted with these teachings and practices, deny as many as they can, say that those teachings and practices have been abandoned, or claim that they are too sacred to talk about. They become very defensive, and their persecution complex awakens.
Their reaction is as if they have embarked on a suicidal course with the exposure of the lies of their religion, and are determined to bring the rest of the world down with them, as a self-fulfillment of their apocalyptic prophecies. Taking another look at the nature of prophecy, Jonah contains an excellent analysis of prophecy as a warning. A true prophet, when called to that role, will resist it, and approach it with caution and “fear and trembling”. A true prophecy will serve as a warning, not as a map of the future. When seen in this light, the Book of Revelations and many other prophecies will be understood. If it is God’s will that life on Earth will end, Christianity, fully fulfilled, will guarantee that it will happen through Nature’s course, not through the actions of man. May we always have that faith, as we, blind by nature, feel our way through history, always searching for the light of that which is good, right, just, and Godly.

I think that is balanced. It is a tricky, very delicate situation

 

[MomblessedX3]

My point exactly. Unfortunately, those catholics who tend to be more antimormonish have kept away from this thread. It would be great to get their opinion about it all.

Interesting why me,

I guess I may be considered ‘antimormonish’ and didn’t see a need to post. But I will just to make you feel better. I have no disagreement with the Bishop. I am glad that he made the statements that he did.

I agree that marriage is between one man and one woman. Not men and not women nor man and many women. (could claim to be an anitmormonish dig )
I also agree that mormons are "a good and generous people with a long history of commitment to family and giving to community causes’
I married a mormon so I surely hope I pick someone that is a good person with a commitment to family and community.

There is nothing here to argue about. This article wasn’t about how fundamentally wrong mormonism is…which is where the arguments come in.

I don’t see why you would want argument and disagreement where there should be none.

jmho

 

[yellowbird]

Mormons are good people and have nice families.

True True.

It doesn’t make them right though. They still get it wrong about Jesus and the authority of His Chruch. Have them as neighbors? Sure. Go to their church? Not on your life.

 

[why_me]

why me,

Most Catholics who come to these forums would probably be able to agree with the spirit of the bishop. The thing is, the forum is designed **to debate and discuss **religion. If you found religious disagreement distasteful, it would be foolish to come here where that disagreement is likely to find expression.

No problem with debate and discuss. My problem is with ‘attack’ and ‘mock’ syndrome that some engage in against the mormons.

 

[Snow]

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Former-Catholic-Bishop-Salt-Lake/story.aspx?guid={BE149180-C54A-41B7-B3DC-14EAC89B5D6E}

"Catholics stand in solidarity with our Mormon brothers and sisters in support of traditional marriage–the union of one man and one woman–that has been the major building block of Western Civilization for millennia.

Sure… there’s that approach.

On the other hand there is the approach that some folks here use:

Mormons is stupid.

mormons are the best liars in the world.

You all follow the devel satan!!

Joe smith was a bumpkin.

Who’s to say which is the better approach.

 

[why_me]

Sure… there’s that approach.

On the other hand there is the approach that some folks here use:

Mormons is stupid.

mormons are the best liars in the world.

You all follow the devel satan!!

Joe smith was a bumpkin.

Who’s to say which is the better approach.

Strange, but most of the more mocking and attack mode catholics on this board would most likely be the ones who would work together well with mormons. I have this strange feeling that it is basically an Internet style persona that is responsible for the attack mode catholics.

 

[Jerusha]

today people mock Mormonism. They mock those great and spacious buildings which are the LDS temples, the sacred undergarments, white baker’s caps and green aprons and other accoutrements worn as temple clothing, baptism for the dead, Adam as God, Jesus as the brother of Satan, the Book of Mormon as entirely the product of Joseph Smith’s insane and sociopathic imagination, Quakers on the Moon, Kolob, the death of Shiz, people of color becoming white upon conversion, and even Jesus’ appearance on the North American continent

Bringing up the “sore points”, which tend to activate the LDS persecution complex is conter-productive. Matters of importance, such as LDS doctrine which supports unethical behavior are essential to Catholic-Mormon debate.

I would sugggest that many of the people who are here debating you are not perceived as anti-Mormon in real life, but use the internet to discharge anger from past hurts and present frustrations.

Snow, those characterizations of Catholic anti-Mormon comments are gross exaggerations. I do not see such comments here.

 

[nebula]

No problem with debate and discuss. My problem is with ‘attack’ and ‘mock’ syndrome that some engage in against the mormons.

why me,

I suppose I’d have to see examples of what you perceive to be attacking and mocking to make a judgement.