I love your religion but this doesn't make any sense

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falisrm

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So mormons and catholics have the same doctrine about the resurrection. Meaning, we will all be resurrected with our physical bodies and we’ll all have physical bodies in heaven because of the resurrection. Just like Christ was resurrected with his body and appeared in his flesh a few times after his death. Since Christ has his physical body, which was resurrected, that means Christ is in our image both physically and spiritually. How in the world does that jive with the concept of the trinity that god is everywhere and nowhere at once, and is combined with god with no form? Since the concept of the trinity was developed during the Nicene Council, wasn’t that council one of the biggest failures in world history? after 3 days they just came to some concensus about the nature of god even though they didn’t completely agree with. I didn’t know voting on a doctrine is how you determine any spiritual truth. If the council got 51% of the vote that the godhead are 3 seperate individuals with one purpose, would that mean their 1700 year history with this doctrine be completely different then it is today? Why didn’t they just pray about it instead of voting?

Sorry, just one more thing that doesn’t make any sense.

catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0211clas.asp
 
Mormonism is similar to Islam in one way. There is an emphasis on the physical and a downplaying of the metaphysical at times.

To say that we are in the image and likeness of God, it is not about having arms and legs and a body. It is about having intellect and reason, being able to love and contemplate the eternal, and having free will. This is how we are in the image and likeness of God.

Once Jesus rose from the dead, he is no longer held bound by the laws of nature. He can be in multiple places at once, move at the speed of thought, etc. Simply put, though he has a body, he can operate like a spirit alone, such as the other Two Persons in the Tinity.

Now, the DOCTRINE was defined, not the concept created. That is different. The concept is in the Bible. The Doctrine was put forth to explain in human terms that which cannot be understood by man.

No, the doctrine of the Trinity is not a failure in any way, shape, or form.
 
eh, sorry but according to your doctrine, we’ll have physical bodies just like we have now. Arms and legs and everything else.
 
falisrm said:
So mormons and catholics have the same doctrine about the resurrection. Meaning, we will all be resurrected with our physical bodies and we’ll all have physical bodies in heaven because of the resurrection. Just like Christ was resurrected with his body and appeared in his flesh a few times after his death. Since Christ has his physical body, which was resurrected, that means Christ is in our image both physically and spiritually. How in the world does that jive with the concept of the trinity that god is everywhere and nowhere at once, and is combined with god with no form? Since the concept of the trinity was developed during the Nicene Council, wasn’t that council one of the biggest failures in world history? after 3 days they just came to some concensus about the nature of god even though they didn’t completely agree with. I didn’t know voting on a doctrine is how you determine any spiritual truth. If the council got 51% of the vote that the godhead are 3 seperate individuals with one purpose, would that mean their 1700 year history with this doctrine be completely different then it is today? Why didn’t they just pray about it instead of voting?

Sorry, just one more thing that doesn’t make any sense.

catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0211clas.asp
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Why do you feel you can say they didn’t pray about it?

And again how is this any different than the way the LDS do things? Your Apostles also “vote” about things why don’t they just pray about it? Nasty assumption on my there, that they don’t approach things prayerfully, isn’t it?
 
Apostles don’t vote about doctrine. Its already in the scriptures, you just have to pray about it. Apostles vote about administration programs, They have nothing to do about our salvation or doctrine.
 
Since we’ll all have physical bodies like Christ does, does that leave God the Father the only one without a body? Is he left out or something? What about the Holy Ghost? He won’t have a body either
 
falisrm said:
eh, sorry but according to your doctrine, we’ll have physical bodies just like we have now. Arms and legs and everything else.
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I never said that we won’t. What I said is that there is no reason to understand that God the Father has a physical body. Further, I said that once we are raised, our bodies are not held bound by the laws of nature.
 
I would agree our bodies aren’t bound to the laws of nature but thats not addressing the concept of the trinity. Resurrection and the concept of the trinity are in complete conflict with one another.
 
falisrm said:
I would agree our bodies aren’t bound to the laws of nature but thats not addressing the concept of the trinity. Resurrection and the concept of the trinity are in complete conflict with one another.
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The Son of God in no way changed his divine nature when he took human flesh. He was from all eternity the Word of God, begotten of the Father. One might say that he is God the Father expressing himself, as the Holy Spirit is God the Father and the Son expressing their love.

The Mormon explanation makes God into a finite being who can be explained quite simply. I can understand the appeal. However, for God to be truly God he must be beyond our understanding. He has revealed what we can understand/know of him in the Bible and most especially and finally in his Son, but we will never fully understand his being or everything about him.

As to voting on doctrinal matters, the Apostles did the same thing. They knew the outcome would be God’s will because Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit who would guide them into all truth. He breathed the Holy Spirit upon them. Our bishops receive this same charism and promise when they are ordained.

Our Church was founded by Christ and has operated under his authority and his promises to his Church by the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit for over 2000 years. It’s rich in history and in controversy–I’d be surprised if it weren’t. It is perfect in its divine nature but flawed in its human nature, thus we see some of its members saying and doing wrong things. But, it is safeguarded in its decisions on matters of doctrine and morals by the Holy Spirit. And this is the great wonder of it and the great mystery of it.
 
Christ’s Resurrected Body (and our future resurrected bodies) is not the same as a resuscitated body. I think it is impossible for us to grasp fully the implications of the Resurrected Body of Jesus. Coming in contact with Him after the Resurrection changed everyone in remarkable ways. Peter, James and John were given a glimpse of this before His Resurrection in the Transfiguration on the mount before His death. They didn’t know how to respond to that event properly. And it is only the Holy Spirit that gives them the power to respond to the Resurrection properly— by giving up everything and going out and living joyfully through pain, toil, persecution, banishment, death.

God chooses to reveal Himself as Father, Son and Spirit because that is Who He is. Why should I as one of His creatures believe that I have the power to fully understand Him completely? He revealed Himself through Christ, who gave His own authority to His Church. I’ll put my faith in Christ’s Church to best teach me about God.
 
falisrm, Mormons believe that man became god, that is Jesus was a man first and became exalted to god. Also, the Mormon belief is that God exists inside of time, meaning, He did not create time.

Trinitarian Truth is that God exists outside of time. When the Word of God entered the world, it was God choosing to reveal Himself as Man, in time. GOD BECAME MAN, that is very central to understanding the Trinity. We call this the Incarnation.

Jesus was fully God and fully Man. His nature as God did not change in the Incarnation. He nature as Man is such that He was a Man, fully, and thus God was able to Sacrifice Himself for us. When Jesus rose on the third day, His mortal body had become Immortal. The fact of this change did not change the divine nature of Jesus, and it did not change the nature of God the Father.

If you understand that God created ALL THINGS, including time and space, then you understand that He exists outside of time. And thus, He is all places and no places. Jesus is the Word of God, who entered the world at a specific Time, according to God’s choosing.

I recommend you become better informed about the Nicene Council, rather than going by what the Mormon Church has taught you.

A good book about what Christians believe is “Mere Christianity”, by C. S. Lewis

A good book about the Nicene Creed is “The Creed: The Apostolic Faith in Contemporary Theology”
 
falisrm said:
Apostles don’t vote about doctrine. Its already in the scriptures, you just have to pray about it. Apostles vote about administration programs, They have nothing to do about our salvation or doctrine.
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That is not how some things were explained to me by LDS, I’ve been told that things were not doctrinal since they were not voted on by the LDS.

The last sentence seems to hold a low view of Apostleship, I’m sure you have a higher view of them it just doesn’t come across there.
 
What i mean by that is Apostles, and everyone else in life, vote on principles. Principles that are designed to bring us closer to god but the things they vote on don’t pertain to our salvation. For example, the Apostles can vote to cancel the sunday school program. That’s fine, its a program designed to educate us about the doctrines or principles of the gospel. The program itself doesn’t bring us salvation. The program itself is a principle.

Doctrines are completely different things. A doctrine is a truth that pertains to the plan of salvation. For example, you can’t vote away the existance of heaven or the requirement of baptism because they are already truths. Same thing with the nature of god. Have you ever read the Nicene Creed? They actually voted on the nature of god. It boggles my mind.
 
falisrm said:
So mormons and catholics have the same doctrine about the resurrection. Meaning, we will all be resurrected with our physical bodies and we’ll all have physical bodies in heaven because of the resurrection. Just like Christ was resurrected with his body and appeared in his flesh a few times after his death. Since Christ has his physical body, which was resurrected, that means Christ is in our image both physically and spiritually. How in the world does that jive with the concept of the trinity that god is everywhere and nowhere at once, and is combined with god with no form? Since the concept of the trinity was developed during the Nicene Council, wasn’t that council one of the biggest failures in world history? after 3 days they just came to some concensus about the nature of god even though they didn’t completely agree with. **I didn’t know voting on a doctrine is how you determine any spiritual truth. **If the council got 51% of the vote that the godhead are 3 seperate individuals with one purpose, would that mean their 1700 year history with this doctrine be completely different then it is today? Why didn’t they just pray about it instead of voting?

Sorry, just one more thing that doesn’t make any sense.

catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0211clas.asp
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Is voting better or worse than the method used to determine the replacement for Judas. They selected several and then “Cast Lots”. Gambling to make an Apostle?

Many ways have been used through the centuries to make decisions in the Church. But one thing you can be remainded constant.
Prayer!! Prayer and More Prayer.
This combined with discussion, debate and writing helped the Church come to a solid understanding of the Will of the Spirit.

Peace
James
 
falisrm said:
What i mean by that is Apostles, and everyone else in life, vote on principles. Principles that are designed to bring us closer to god but the things they vote on don’t pertain to our salvation. For example, the Apostles can vote to cancel the sunday school program. That’s fine, its a program designed to educate us about the doctrines or principles of the gospel. The program itself doesn’t bring us salvation. The program itself is a principle.

Doctrines are completely different things. A doctrine is a truth that pertains to the plan of salvation. For example, you can’t vote away the existance of heaven or the requirement of baptism because they are already truths. Same thing with the nature of god. Have you ever read the Nicene Creed? They actually voted on the nature of god. It boggles my mind.
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The Nicene Council changed no doctrines. The Bishops vote their conscience, in a prayerful manner, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That they were nearly unanimous in their vote (dissenting were a handful of approximately 300, including Arius) should be proof to you that the Holy Spirit was telling them all, the same thing. The Bishops at the Council then laid out clearly, and completely, the Truth about Jesus as had always been taught and believed, starting with the Apostles themselves.

The Council was in response to the Arian heresy, prior to that, there was no need to clearly lay out the exact beliefs you see in the Nicene Creed, as they were already believed and accepted by all but Arius and those who dissented with him.

You are basing your assumptions and beliefs on one erroneous belief, and that is, that God does not guide the Church He founded with St. Peter and the other Apostles.
 
falisrm said:
What i mean by that is Apostles, and everyone else in life, vote on principles. Principles that are designed to bring us closer to god but the things they vote on don’t pertain to our salvation. For example, the Apostles can vote to cancel the sunday school program. That’s fine, its a program designed to educate us about the doctrines or principles of the gospel. The program itself doesn’t bring us salvation. The program itself is a principle.

Doctrines are completely different things. A doctrine is a truth that pertains to the plan of salvation. For example, you can’t vote away the existance of heaven or the requirement of baptism because they are already truths. Same thing with the nature of god. Have you ever read the Nicene Creed? They actually voted on the nature of god. It boggles my mind.
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Not to stir it up, but what of the doctrine that excluded African descendants from being ordained priesthood holders…was that not a doctrinal change that pertains to the plan of salvation?

I could also argue, with the words of one of your prophets (Brigham Young) that the practice of plural marriage was essential to gaining exaltation.
 
You don’t need the priesthood to be saved. And again, that is a principle taught by abraham and noah.

If Brigham Young taught you need polygamy to enter into heaven, then the guy is an idiot.
 
falisrm said:
You don’t need the priesthood to be saved. And again, that is a principle taught by abraham and noah.

If Brigham Young taught you need polygamy to enter into heaven, then the guy is an idiot.
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Did you switch, from talking about the plan of salvation, to Salvation? (You specifically said “plan of salvation”.)

I agree with your conclusions re: BY.
 
Regardless of how controvosal that law was, it didn’t pertain to anyone’s actual salvation or any doctrine. All blacks could have been baptized and so forth. It didn’t pertain to their salvation if they could hold the priesthood or not. It’s not a change in any doctrine. Just a law and a principle.
 
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