I made her cheat on her boyfriend

[Maximilian75]

Since when do we base our venial sins on the West’s “presumed expectations”?

Because persons in the West hold them, and if they are violated that’s often quite hurtful and emotionally damaging to the involved parties, unless they are as up-front as you were back in the day, which I doubt is the case. (Your openness was admirable - Not trying to attack you on that front )

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

I do however think that lying to your boyfriend or girlfriend about going out with someone else is sinful, as well as just stupid as they WILL find out, so I always let my boyfriends know when I was seeing somebody else. I would simply tell them I was seeing them on Monday and Frank on Tuesday and might go out with Bob on Thursday. If they wanted to break up with me because they had a problem with me seeing Frank and Bob, then they were quite free to do so. I would add that they didn’t, and that most of them were also seeing other ladies.

I mean, that’s all fine if both people are aware of that and on board with it, and I agree that in general people take dating relationships far too seriously and assume a level of exclusivity way too early.

All that said, if you had told Frank “I’m not going to date other people” and Frank stopped seeing other girls in reliance on that…I mean, that’s obviously wrong. It’s certainly not adultery, but you shouldn’t lie to the people you’re dating.

(I understand that you get this, I’m just pontificating.)

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If the couple is having a relationship where they are exclusive

Which, in Catholic teaching, is an engagement, a marriage, or a long-term committed partnership of some sort that is leading to the altar.

That’s it.

It’s not a sin to date more than one person otherwise. If you lie or are dishonest, the lie is the sin, not the date you had.

 

[Lea101]

I also think the reason why western norms were brought up is because dating exclusively is the norm.

So when someone says ‘will you be my boyfriend/girlfriend’, it’s usually implied that it means no dating other people…unless the parties made it clear.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

dating exclusively is the norm.

Bucking cultural norms doesn’t create sins. Only breaking the Church’s laws creates sins.

If nobody ever went against cultural norms, women wouldn’t be voting, going to college, or having careers. I suppose many folks think that would be a good thing and some even think it’s sinful for women to have careers, but many of us don’t think like that. Because somebody threw the cultural norm in the dumpster and made a new one.

 

[Lea101]

Which, in Catholic teaching, is an engagement, a marriage, or a long-term committed partnership of some sort that is leading to the altar.

When someone is in an exclusive relationship, they’re basically making a promise to only date them in their relationship. So obviously breaking that promise by dating other people (vs breaking up with them) would be sinful. Because it’s dishonest.

long-term committed partnership of some sort that is leading to the altar.

This basically means a relationship though. The normal direction, as I said earlier, goes: dating casually, being in a relationship, engagement, marriage. So where’s the disagreement?

Bucking cultural norms doesn’t create sins. Only breaking the Church’s laws creates sins.

You’re refuting an argument that I’m not even making. My point is that normally, asking someone to be your girlfriend implies exclusivity in today’s culture unless told otherwise. So if a person wants to see other people, they would just have to make that clear to avoid leading the other on.

I’m not saying that dating around is sinful. Just that you need to make it clear to the other before you start doing it…

 

[Maximilian75]

Bucking cultural norms doesn’t create sins. Only breaking the Church’s laws creates sins.

The laws of the Church ask us to be charitable and loving to our neighbor.
If the implication (even to one party) at the start of a relationship is that of exclusivity, and then that implication is discarded by the other, it’s quite uncharitable.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The whole thread here going back to the OP’s first post is “can we be forgiven”. That and the fact that he’s posting this on a Catholic board suggests he is concerned this is a sin.
Forgiveness only comes from God and only applies to sins.

Therefore, as I said in my first post, he likely didn’t commit any sin just by dating a girl who has a boyfriend, nor did the girl. (Unless he forced the girl to do some act against her will, which is a completely separate topic.)

Society may still object to what he did, but it’s not a sin and they don’t need forgiveness for it.

If the girl lied somehow to her boyfriend, which may or may not have happened, she might need forgiveness for the lie.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

a long-term committed partnership of some sort that is leading to the altar

I think that’s what most people are thinking of when they say “will you be my girlfriend/boyfriend.” They’re not explicitly promising to get married, but they’re implicitly discerning the possibility of marrying that person, even if they wouldn’t put it in those terms.

In any case, I’d agree that cultural norms do not make sin, but I do think anyone adhering to the old rules of “if you’re not engaged, there’s no promise of exclusivity” should at least make that clear, since most people are going to make a pretty understandable assumption that they’re in an exclusive thing at a certain point.

 

[Lea101]

If he knew or thought that the girl was in an exclusive relationship, he would be sinning by encouraging her to break that promise to the boyfriend, as well as a disregard for the boyfriend’s feelings. Unless he assumed that there was an open relationship, or if there really is one, he did something wrong there.

That aside, he indicated she did inappropriate things, presumably with him. I don’t think he’s referring to a dinner but unfortunately something lustful. So that would also be wrong if that’s what he meant.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I think that’s what most people are thinking of when they say “will you be my girlfriend/boyfriend.”

They can think of it all they want but often two people are not on the same page with their expectations.

When I think of a long-term committed relationship, I’m thinking in terms of the couple are living together for a few years, or the couple have some kids together, or the couple are just waiting for some event to happen (like one party graduates school, or a divorce/ annulment comes through) and it’s wedding time. I’m not thinking of some case of two people who are often rather young saying “Will you be my boyfriend/ girlfriend?” They might say such a thing after the third date, which is not exactly a real strong commitment at that point no matter how much they might think/ wish it was.

 

[Lea101]

…wouldn’t that just be your opinion though?

A couple doesn’t have to hit some sort of ‘objective’ level of commitment. If they both agree to be in an exclusive relationship and then one of them starts dating another, it’s dishonesty. And the heartbreak that comes with it can be just as painful as someone cheating on a boyfriend they are living with. It’s about a loss of trust anda disregard for one’s feelings. If a person wants to see other people, she/he needs to make that clear first. If the other person doesn’t approve, then a breakup is necessary.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

All of this stuff about what creates a commitment, other than engagement/ marriage, is “just our opinion”. I am trying to be kind in the case of couples with a long-term unmarried commitment.

The official Church view is that if you’re not married in the eyes of the Church, then you’re free to go date and marry whoever. If a couple were living together for 10 years and not married, and the man had not been previously married, he could walk out on the relationship tomorrow, marry another lady in the Church, and it would be perfectly okay under Church law for him to do that. Society would probably not look too kindly on his behavior though, unless it was some situation of serious dysfunction or abuse that he just left.

 

[Lea101]

Sinful. But you can be forgiven.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Definitely a sin. You led someone else into sin, or tried to (I hope she didn’t fall for your lines).

And frankly, I find the idea of you trying to get a virgin to give it up for you and saying you don’t believe in virginity prior to marriage is way more sinful and awful than the fact that you dated a girl with a boyfriend.

With the attitude you have, you shouldn’t be dating anybody. At 30 years old yet, you should know better and behave better.

I’d go confess if I were you.

 

[Rabbi]

And I don’t understand why you’re wasting all our time with this? You’re obviously a troll, it’s just so obvious. First, you can figure this out on your own, you don’t need help (if it even happened), because this is common sense 101. Second, you should have thought this whole situation through before it happened, so I’m not going to waste my time now thinking it for you.

 

[Lea101]

Again, you’re arguing against a point I’m not making.

Someone can go out and be The Bachelor all they want. The various ways of courting/dating isn’t sinful as long as they’re chaste. We agree on that. Now, there may be pros and cons, but they aren’t sinful.

But when you promise to date only one person and break it by dating without telling your partner, you’re sinning. It’s not adultery, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to do that. If someone wants to date around, they simply just have to inform their partner before doing so…or break up. Simple!

If not, the poor partner is walking around thinking that her boyfriend is only seeing her. And he would by lying by omission by not telling her (aka leading her on)

Edit: you said on another thread that it would be a sin to date someone unattractive because it would be leading the person on. Because there’s the assumption that being with her=being attracted and hence, it’s dishonest. It’s not dissimilar.

 

[Rabbi]

Its time you crossed such subjects over to Facebook and leave us be.

 

[Rabbi]

I’ll say this, 200 years you could have gotten away with it. People did premarital sex to marry the person they loved so it wouldn’t be arranged. Again, I doubt any of your story really happened, and if it did, you’ve got a lot of growing up to do. That’s not how you start a proper relationship, that’s just bodily lust, and if you get her pregnant, you might be involved with a person you don’t really like, but you’ll be stuck anyway. your move on the chess board.

 

[Rabbi]

People are making some good points here, things you should have thought of already, like the fact that if she’s cheating now, she’ll do it to you. Your story sounds phony, nothing really adds up; you’re a troll. Done wasting time here.