I need a bible verse quick!

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ATeutonicKnight

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I’m talking to the same person about faith and works, and I’m trying to find the verse in Romans where it says something like “You are saved by faith. But through faith comes good works.” Not quite scholarly, but that’s the best I can give you.
 
Are you sure you meant Romans? Romans talks quite a lot about faith. James chapter 2 talked about both faith and works. Check it out.
 
rben20 said:
Are you sure you meant Romans? Romans talks quite a lot about faith. James chapter 2 talked about both faith and works. Check it out.
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No, I already gave him the passage on James verse 14 onward. He simply said that “The only reason he said that was because he knew a lot of people in his time tried to gain salvation through works”.
 
Here are a few quotes that might help…

“You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
- James 2:24

“For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.”
- James 2:26

“Not everyone whosays to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
- Mattehw 7:21
 
Rom. 3:28-30, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.”

Rom. 4:5, “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,”

Rom. 5:1, “therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,”

Rom. 9:30, “What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith.”

Rom. 10:4, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”

Rom. 11:6, “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.”
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
No, I already gave him the passage on James verse 14 onward. He simply said that “The only reason he said that was because he knew a lot of people in his time tried to gain salvation through works”.
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You should ask him if he’s saying that the book of James was not inspired by the Holy Ghost? The reason any author wrote what they wrote is of no consequence since God Himself is personally safeguarding the writing.

You could bring up Christ saying: Not everyone who says to Me “Lord, Lord” shall enter the kingdom, but only those who do [action] the will of My Father.
 
Please read Romans.

In it Paul talks a lot about “works” but by “works” he is referring to the old Jewish law.

If you take any of this out of context you have obliterated its meaning.

Romans is profoundly Catholic.

Especially look at the end of Ch. 3 on through 4. It should become clear that “works” == Jewish heritage/Jewish law i.e. circumcision. This does not strike me as being appropriate for your intent at all. Regardless, the entire thrust of Paul’s argument is that we don’t need circumcision aka “works”.

The best you can glean from Paul in Romans comes in the beautiful list of cause and effect he details in Chapter 5 esp. (3-5) … but keep reading. Romans is a beautiful example of how we live our faith.

No. Justification for doing work comes solidly from the gospels themselves, from Jesus’ direct words. I mean, what about the vineyard analogy. Do we “bear fruit” without work?
Or how about Jesus telling the Apostles in several places to suffer: ie take up your cross or drink from the cup that I must. …

In the Beatitudes aka the “New Law” Jesus does not tell us to just “love him but stay home and eat ho-hos in your recliner in front of the TV”. Lol No, I think being persecuted for his sake might… just might require “work”. Yes?

This whole “works” debate is a straw man. Every single non-Catholic “Christian” I have cornered on this has agreed with me. … with the Catechism. It is by God’s grace that we are saved. Period. There is nothing we could ever do to save ourselves. We all agree on this. BUT, in order to live a full Christian life as God intended, we must do our best to do God’s work. It’s not about “salvation”, that has been settled. I mean we could save every orphan in the world, but w/o God’s grace there is no salvation/justification to be had. Right? The big problem is that most Evangelicals were taught that we Catholics do not believe this; that we think that we have to earn “points” to get into Heaven as it were. This misperception is only enhanced by the fact that we Catholics DO do so much good in the world on a completely voluntary basis. You can see where they might be confused.

Start with that common ground. Going from there, is a whole other can of worms.

Blessings!
 
I would tell him or her that the revolutionary Protestant doctrine of Sola Fide, Faith Alone, was invented by Martin Luther in the 16th century. Jesus and the Apostles didn’t teach it.

“His [Luther’s] ‘thunderbolt’ idea that faith alone was sufficient for salvation came in his [Luther’s] own words, as 'knowledge that the Holy Spirit gave me on the privy in the tower” (TRIUMPH, page 237).

Protestants read Sola Fide into the New Testament (eisogesis) instead of reading the NT in the context in which it was written – in the heart of the Catholic Church. The basis of the NT is the teaching of the Catholic Church, not vice versa.

Jim Dandy

References:

A World Lit Only By Fire, William Manchester, p. 139
TRIUMPH, The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church – A 2,000 Year History, p.237
 
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