I need advice about "casting pearls before swine"

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Ohwesty said:
I would go about this on a case-by-case basis. Many non-Catholics who ask questions about the Eucharist are being sincere and want real anwers. Others are just trying to start an argument that they have every intention of winning. I trust you will know how and when to determine the difference.
  • Westy
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thank you so much…

I have had it happen that when i tell people about this… they act like… like i just told them what i had for lunch… and this offended me… and that is why i felt i was casting pearls before swine… Jesus doesn’t like to be treated w/ indifference… He is HURT by being rejected… unappreciated, unloved… (and if some Posters here dont’ believe that, maybe they should read St. Faustina’s Diary…He tells her such things).

Yes, it does seem like all some Protesatns wnt to do is start (or continue ) an argument… and when they seem to choose that over the Real Presence… something is kinda strange about that… to me…
 
I’m kind of in a hurry but one more thing:

I shared the info about the RP with someone i feel is a downright pagan… (wrote to the person). The person… again… acted like… No big deal or something… that is why i am wondering if i am putting the cart before the horse… or something… Maybe i should be telling them somethig else aobut the Faith FIRST?? and as someone said here… catachumens leave the Church before the Consecration… so… :confused:
 
distracted said:
I’m kind of in a hurry but one more thing:

I shared the info about the RP with someone i feel is a downright pagan… (wrote to the person). The person… again… acted like… No big deal or something… that is why i am wondering if i am putting the cart before the horse… or something… Maybe i should be telling them somethig else aobut the Faith FIRST?? and as someone said here… catachumens leave the Church before the Consecration… so… :confused:
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The Rite of Catechumens was restored by Vatican II precisely because the Church wanted to return to the ancient practice of properly preparing the elect for the “divine mysteries” at the Easter Vigil. In those early days, the process of intitiation (instruction and formation) could take as long as 2 years.

I failed to clarify something in my previous post: that the “Discipline of the Secret” was not simply to keep Christians from being ridiculed; it was to prevent the pagans from committing blasphemy against the Body and Blood of the Lord, whether by thought, word, or action. This was taken very seriously in the early Church, and provides evidence of what the primitive Christians truly believed about the Blessed Sacrament.

I don’t normally initiate discussion of the Eucharist with non-Catholics. There are certain aspects I don’t even discuss with other Catholics, because each individual communion with Jesus is very personal, and makes it almost too precious to speak out loud.

However, we are mandated to evangelize. Today we have an opportunity to discuss our beliefs openly and to evangelize. This can also open the door to abusive and disrespectful exchange. Our Lord deserves better. If I detect that someone simply wants to use the topic to ridicule the Real Presence, or if I notice someone pulling back, then I drop out of the discussion. “Casting pearls before swine” is a harsh term, but these are Our Lord’s words, and they express perfectly the dangers of exposing our treasured beliefs to those who won’t (or can’t) appreciate them.

To be fair, it is possible that people who disagree with us can debate in a respectful manner. If we all self-regulate our behavior and keep it charitable, sharing our love of the Holy Eucharist with non-Catholics can plant seeds of faith. We just need to let the Holy Spirit provide the water and sunshine.
  • Westy
 
distracted said:
i have tried this… For some reason or other it never works… because the subject of what Church i go to or what have you always comes up. i have told poeple things like “i don’t want to say…” but then they just get curious and want all the more to find out… and plus… i cna’t NOT talk about certain aspects of the Faith… for very long…
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**to people who don’t really believe, it doesn’t matter which church (Catholic or Lutheran) I or anybody belongs. All they want to know out of a state of hyper-curiosity, why does this bloke believe, what I dare to doubt??? Why on earth does he speak so firmly and heartfelt believing of God??? What is it he has and I don’t? This guy isn’t stupid, but he believes – by jove he really believes!!!

That’s all that counts for the moment. Later we go into details, when this persons curiosity it at flames.
At this point CHRISTIANITY AND BELIEF is all that’s important. We can’t run sceptics over with details, before we build a fundament. Especially, when this doubters are baptized Christians.

If we’d say; Christianity is right only if it’s Roman Catholic which I am, it would be the falsest we could do and would end up any conversation at once.

Another thing is – if they ask. Then of course I tell BY THE WAY Catholic, but not pointing out this as the one and only right church. Not yet of course, as I don’t want to destroy the fundament of further missioning.
**
 
distracted said:
I sometimes share the doctrine of the Real Presence with non-Catholics and some even “pagan” kinds of people. I tell them about the consecration of the host and keeping the Hosts in the tabernacle in the Church perpetually. I am wondering if this is “casting pearls before swine” or something… ?

I kinda feel uncomfortable doing this (sometimes… not always, depends on the person) & yet i know how much being in the Real Presence has helped me, spritiually… but i just don’t - always - feel 100% about it sharing this (well, i feel 100% about helping others, but…don’t know if i should do it this wya)…

Christ gave his Church for everyone… so i also don’t feel it is right for the Church to keep such precious "things’ to itself… as it were… I am Catholic but was never taught about the Real Presence… until a priest told me about 10 yrs ago.

anyway… Maybe it is not so much casting pearls… but ***putting the cart before the horse??? ***

What is your opinion??
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I think it is “PTCBTH”, because Transubstantiation is the sort of dogma that presupposes a lot of other ones. For inmstance, there’s little point in discussing the Sacraments with someone who does not believe that there is a God Who has become man in Jesus Christ & founded a Church which He feeds on the Sacraments. And if the action of Christ in doing so is not real, then it is rather a waste of time to discuss the fine detail of the ways in which He does so 🙂​

So a lot depends on just how much the people you’re talking with either believe, or, are prepared to concede is plausible. Hope that helps.
 
**
Gottle_of_Geer said:
rather a waste of time to discuss the fine detail
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That’s what I keep telling. What good would it be, to insist in Catholic knowledge if the person(s) we try to convince, don’t even believe in God.
The shocking thing about this is; that an increasing lot of CHRISTIANS ask in the most ridiculous way: “Do you really believe in all this?”
I was shocked, when a of course baptized Christian - an old friend of school-days by the name of Gundolf, asked me this. Yes! Naturally - I replied, and he returned: Are you nuts?!
Well - he died years ago, and consequently now knows the truth .

We can only hope, that he will be given a chance to one day live with God, as on the other hand, he was a good guy.

But please would anybody tell me; what is “PTCBTH” ?

**
 
distracted said:
thank you so much…

I have had it happen that when i tell people about this… they act like… like i just told them what i had for lunch… and this offended me… and that is why i felt i was casting pearls before swine… Jesus doesn’t like to be treated w/ indifference… He is HURT by being rejected… unappreciated, unloved… (and if some Posters here dont’ believe that, maybe they should read St. Faustina’s Diary…He tells her such things).

Yes, it does seem like all some Protesatns wnt to do is start (or continue ) an argument… and when they seem to choose that over the Real Presence… something is kinda strange about that… to me…
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May I offer some advise, hopefully I will convey this with a great deal of hope. When I read your words I see a person who has been hurt, rejected, unloved and unappreciated. I see a person who identifies strongly to the suffering of Christ because of suffering shared.

It is possible that, before you are able to share the love of Christ to others, you may need to deal with these issues of pain. Your words convey a certain amount a anger and resentment toward those with whom who speak. People pick up on this anger and in return will resent you thereby rejecting what you have to say.

In order to share the love of Christ you must learn to first love Christ with all your heart (which I can see that you do) then learn to love yourself and come to an understanding of who you are in God’s love. It is only then that you are able to love others as you love yourself. If you do not love yourself, it is very difficult to reach out in love to people and explain what it all means.
 
distracted said:
i am not sure i understand what you mean by nt discussing details of your faith… and then you say you have an apostolate… (??)…

The Church teaches that we must share the faith with others… evangelize… or we could jeopardize our salvation…
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My apostolate is to teach. Because I teach in a public school, of course I can’t evangelize to my students. It would be nice, however, if I had a few Christian friends in the faculty or administration I could talk to about my vocation, from time to time. There’s one administrator with whom I can do this, and that’s a relief. Most of my fellow teachers are agnostics, and antagonistic toward religion, in general. My department head is a hardcore neo-Marxist, and atheist, of course. Meanwhile, I teach in a huge, low-income, inner-city high school, chuck full of violence, crime and other expressions of anti-social behavior. Christians need to band together, quietly, and encourage one another. Fellowship is important.🙂
 
Ohwesty said:
not simply to keep Christians from being ridiculed; it was to prevent the pagans from committing blasphemy against the Body and Blood of the Lord, whether by thought, word, or action. This was taken very seriously in the early Church, and provides evidence of what the primitive Christians truly believed about the Blessed Sacrament.
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to subsantiate this… St. Faustina was visited often by Jesus… who told her that it grieves him much when people receive Him without even thinking of Him (not the exact words…)… Jesus is greived when we do not love Him and make our relationship with Him (Comminion with Him) priority…
However, we are mandated to evangelize. Today we have an opportunity to discuss our beliefs openly and to evangelize. This can also open the door to abusive and disrespectful exchange.
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which is exactly what i am trying to avoid… Some Protestants are open to what i am saying and some definitely are not… I don’t want to torment Jesus…
 
**

True! One must be idiotic to be Marxist. Don’t those people know which misery Communism brought and still brings over Millions 😦
One shoud avoid such stubborn mads.

But the here also mentioned Evangelics; - why not let Lutherans be Protestants as they like, and concentrate on Christian questions and the main question which is: Is God real?!

It’s hardly up to us to reunite what’s divided for centuries. The Church itself works on this hard enough. By and by we might drop a remark in loving terms to why we rather are Catholic. But the minds are cast in iron, so we should try not to harden it up.
My father was convinced Lutheran, even though he loved my Rom. Catholic mother. There was no chance of change of mind. That will take further generations.

That’s why I stick to fundamental things, for as we all know, very many Christians and even Catholics don’t REALLY believe as so if they’d say:
Granny lives next door.

Believe must turn into knowing; just as when a dear friend tells us something. We then know! We don’t just believe and hope it’s right. For – how much more than a dear friend is Jesus Christ.

**
 
distracted said:
thank you. I feel better now… but i still wonder… Well, i guess what bothers me is that sometimes i have shared the Real Presence with someone who seemed to be Christian… and the person didn’tt respond in a way i thought he would… I mean, it seems to me that if a person loves Jesus, he would be overjoyed to hear about being able to actually be in His presence. I suppose the fact that some people don’t SEEM to be overjoyed shouldn’t surpirse me because they may not even believe what i am saying… :confused:
but if people did believe it, it seems they would… act differently than they do…

is it putting the cart before the horse - in that maybe a person should know the Catholic faith first?
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How a person responds is not your responsibility.
 
Bruno_Schulz said:
**

True! One must be idiotic to be Marxist. Don’t those people know which misery Communism brought and still brings over Millions 😦
One shoud avoid such stubborn mads.

But the here also mentioned Evangelics; - why not let Lutherans be Protestants as they like, and concentrate on Christian questions and the main question which is: Is God real?!

It’s hardly up to us to reunite what’s divided for centuries. The Church itself works on this hard enough. By and by we might drop a remark in loving terms to why we rather are Catholic. But the minds are cast in iron, so we should try not to harden it up.
My father was convinced Lutheran, even though he loved my Rom. Catholic mother. There was no chance of change of mind. That will take further generations.

That’s why I stick to fundamental things, for as we all know, very many Christians and even Catholics don’t REALLY believe as so if they’d say:
Granny lives next door.

Believe must turn into knowing; just as when a dear friend tells us something. We then know! We don’t just believe and hope it’s right. For – how much more than a dear friend is Jesus Christ.

**
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Liberals will never give up Marxism completely. Never. 😦
 
KingAlfred said:
Liberals will never give up Marxism completely. Never. 😦
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**Exactly. And even worse, Karl Marx was born in the same town, as my sons. Trier. But even though, Trier is a bautiful town, though very quiet ever since the Romans went Trier was the capital of the world, when emperor Constantin lived there 306-337 see here
www.treveris.com/konstantinbasilika.htm
Constantins Palace, which is today the Lutheran Church (in Catholic Trier). The Catholics there have very many Churches, among them another building of Constantin the Great, the Dome, oldest Church of Europe, build on the original Roman Basilica. See here:
dominformation.de/internet-en/nav/add/add70623-d64a-36f5-4abd-11d8bc1d2b31.htm
I took all our American friends there. Also to the AmphiTheater (build 100 after Christ) where so many Christians where killed by wild animals to the entertainment of the Romans.

And they - those Catholics (there was no other Church then) - even knowing that this would happen said I AM CHRISTIAN - would we have done so too?
**
 
distracted said:
I sometimes share the doctrine of the Real Presence with non-Catholics and some even “pagan” kinds of people. I tell them about the consecration of the host and keeping the Hosts in the tabernacle in the Church perpetually. I am wondering if this is “casting pearls before swine” or something… ?

I kinda feel uncomfortable doing this (sometimes… not always, depends on the person) & yet i know how much being in the Real Presence has helped me, spritiually… but i just don’t - always - feel 100% about it sharing this (well, i feel 100% about helping others, but…don’t know if i should do it this wya)…

Christ gave his Church for everyone… so i also don’t feel it is right for the Church to keep such precious "things’ to itself… as it were… I am Catholic but was never taught about the Real Presence… until a priest told me about 10 yrs ago.

anyway… Maybe it is not so much casting pearls… but ***putting the cart before the horse??? ***

What is your opinion??
Click to expand...
**He who has ears to hear, let him hear! 👍 **
 
distracted said:
I’m kind of in a hurry but one more thing:

I shared the info about the RP with someone i feel is a downright pagan… (wrote to the person). The person… again… acted like… No big deal or something… that is why i am wondering if i am putting the cart before the horse… or something… Maybe i should be telling them somethig else aobut the Faith FIRST?? and as someone said here… catachumens leave the Church before the Consecration… so… :confused:
Click to expand...
That ‘pagan’ person may have studied so many myths that your discussion of the RP in the Eucharist falls on deaf ears. I would not broach the subject of RP with this person any more but choose a different tack.
Perhaps discuss the person of Jesus with them. I would bet this person has familiarity with a number of false gods. Show them how Jesus was and is always will be different than those false gods. If they show interest in this discussion perhaps you could move on from there.
Coming out of neo-paganism and back to the church, it was the person of Jesus that got to me. (That, and the sheer chaos of what pretends to be spirituality in those circles.)
Try a discussion on the historical Jesus first and then segue that into the divinity of Christ.
The Eucharistic Mystery of the RP might be a bit much for someone unfamiliar to wrap their mind around. I still don’t understand it.
 
Bruno_Schulz said:
Exactly. And even worse, Karl Marx was born in the same town, as my sons. Trier. But even though, Trier is a bautiful town, though very quiet ever since the Romans went Trier was the capital of the world, when emperor Constantin lived there 306-337 see here
www.treveris.com/konstantinbasilika.htm
Constantins Palace, which is today the Lutheran Church (in Catholic Trier). The Catholics there have very many Churches, among them another building of Constantin the Great, the Dome, oldest Church of Europe, build on the original Roman Basilica. See here:
dominformation.de/internet-en/nav/add/add70623-d64a-36f5-4abd-11d8bc1d2b31.htm
I took all our American friends there. Also to the AmphiTheater (build 100 after Christ) where so many Christians where killed by wild animals to the entertainment of the Romans.

And they - those Catholics (there was no other Church then) - even knowing that this would happen said I AM CHRISTIAN - would we have done so too?
Click to expand...
I wonder how many Christians are actually prepared to die for Christ.
 
KingAlfred said:
I wonder how many Christians are actually prepared to die for Christ.
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**
We all ought to ask ourself - would I? Is my believe strong enough?
Jesus Christ took upon himself the most tortureful death we can think of - just out of love for us. Thousands of Saints did die for their believe in God.
I - would I if it came to it???**
 
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