I need an arguement against abortion

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MaeganFlinchum1

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Ok lets say::: a womanwas raped and concieved. And if she proceeds with the pregnancy she will most likely die. The doctor says she should have an abortion. What is the arguement against this scenario?

I am 100percent pro life but how do i answer to this? And i just need answers as far as if the mothers life is in danger
 
I have talked to many doctors, including ob/gyn’s, and most of them all say the same thing- this scenario of a woman dying unless she has an abortion is nothing more than propaganda. The instances of this actually being the case are very rare.

I would strongly recommend that you not worry about arguing this point.
I find that helping people to understand the sanctity of all life, from cradle to grave, is a daunting enough task. I don’t need to fill my head with worry about things that are hyped by the media.
 
Perhaps someone will come along with a citation, but I believe that 1) such a case is quite rare. Ectopic pregnancy would be one. And 2) when you have a choice of saving neither or one, you save the one you can, which in this case is the mother.

Try this site regarding double effect: hli.org/cloning/400?task=view
 
First, the scenario is extremely rare. Doctors don’t know if a woman will “most likely die” if she continues a pregnancy. (Sounds like TV nonsense.) Of course, this doesn’t mean it’s not an important scenario. What I’ve learned is that a doctor has the responsibility to treat both patients, not just the mother. He/she cannot treat the baby as the disease the mother will “most likely die” of. A baby is NOT a disease. The doctor must do everything medically possible to save both patients, and must not intentionally and willfully harm the baby to save the mother, or intentionally and willfully harm the mother to save the baby. Modern medical science has given doctors many ways of dealing with such a scenario. Any good Catholic hospital will have doctors trained in such techniques.

Peace,
Romano63
 
holyrood said:
Perhaps someone will come along with a citation, but I believe that 1) such a case is quite rare. Ectopic pregnancy would be one. And 2) when you have a choice of saving neither or one, you save the one you can, which in this case is the mother.

Try this site regarding double effect: hli.org/cloning/400?task=view
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Thanks!! Thats a good link 🙂
 
Romano63 said:
First, the scenario is extremely rare. Doctors don’t know if a woman will “most likely die” if she continues a pregnancy. (Sounds like TV nonsense.) Of course, this doesn’t mean it’s not an important scenario. What I’ve learned is that a doctor has the responsibility to treat both patients, not just the mother. He/she cannot treat the baby as the disease the mother will “most likely die” of. A baby is NOT a disease. The doctor must do everything medically possible to save both patients, and must not intentionally and willfully harm the baby to save the mother, or intentionally and willfully harm the mother to save the baby. Modern medical science has given doctors many ways of dealing with such a scenario. Any good Catholic hospital will have doctors trained in such techniques.

Peace,
Romano63
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I didnt mean to make it sound like a baby or pregnancy was a disease. Sorry if I did. And thanks for your reply!
 
Oh, I didn’t think you had 🙂 , but this is the way too many people think of a baby in the womb. To these people, it’s only a matter of ending a pregnancy. It’s not a matter of killing a human being. They see one patient–the mother. The fail to see the second patient–the baby.

Peace
 
Romano63 said:
Oh, I didn’t think you had 🙂 , but this is the way too many people think of a baby in the womb. To these people, it’s only a matter of ending a pregnancy. It’s not a matter of killing a human being. They see one patient–the mother. The fail to see the second patient–the baby.

Peace
Click to expand...
Thanks 🙂
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
priestsforlife.org/articles/abortionachoiceagainstwomen.html is this a good site??? I really need to know. I know abortion is wrong under all situations. But what if both the mother and child will die if she doesnt have one?
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Under Catholicism the early termination of a pregnancy isn’t universally and unconditionally prohibited. If a woman had an ectopic pregnancy then through an application of the principal of double effect a Dr. could remove the fallopian tube that contains the zygote. This will terminate the pregnancy, but since it is not a “direct attack” of the fetus it’s not considered an abortion and the death of the fetus is considered the unfortunate side effect but not the intent. A procedure that some Dr’s would apply (which is prohibited by Catholicism) is to indect something to terminate the pregnancy. These are considered immoral since these methods include the intentional killing of the fetus.
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
Ok lets say::: a womanwas raped and concieved. And if she proceeds with the pregnancy she will most likely die. The doctor says she should have an abortion. What is the arguement against this scenario?

I am 100percent pro life but how do i answer to this? And i just need answers as far as if the mothers life is in danger
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Lol an argument with something that might affect 1 in 100 million people.

Check out Peter Kreft
 
You need to ask whoever is posing this question to you why they are asking about a scenario that is as much of a chance as you winning the lottery. Pro-choice advocates try to sway the argument to the least likely scenario because deep down they know that their arguments for abortion (women’s right to choose, can’t afford it, etc.) are self-centered and hollow.

If this person you are arguing with talks about women’s rights, remind them that half of the aborted babies would have been a woman. If this person you are arguing with says that a fetus is not fully developed, ask them if it’s ok then to kill toddlers and children since they aren’t FULLY DEVELOPED adults yet either. Life is an ongoing process of growth starting at conception.

Most abortions occur at the 8th week of conception. Let this person know what’s going on in the womb at 8 weeks: a heartbeat (after just 21 days), a determined gender, a nervous system, an umbilical cord, lungs, a brain, arms and legs, lenses of the eyes, nostrils, intestines and pancreas, elbows, fingers, feet, ears, eyes, nose, intestines, cartilage, bones, teeth under the gums, a tongue all within just 8 weeks. SOUNDS LIKE A HUMAN TO ME. These pro-choice liberals try to paint a picture of the fetus as blob or an alien. BTW: Fetus is Latin for “baby.”

When a woman gets pregnant, two things are guaranteed:
  1. she is a mother
  2. she will deliver a child; it’s just a matter if she gives the child life or death
Finally, to answer the extreme scenario: NO, a woman in that situation shouldn’t have an abortion. One crime and sin (rape) doesn’t justify another crime and sin (murder). If the woman gives up the child for adoption, her hands are clean. However, if she aborts the child, she will have committed a grave and mortal sin of murder. The woman is jeopardizing her eternal soul if she chooses abortion. **MARK 8:35-37 For whoever wants to save their life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? **Our life here on earth is a blink of an eye compared to eternity. All of us will live forever; it’s just a matter of where we spend eternity (Gnashing of the teeth in a lake of fire or life with our Lord and Savior in Paradise).

PROVERBS 31:8 "Speak up for people who cannot speak for themselves. Protect the rights of all who are helpless."
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
Ok lets say::: a womanwas raped and concieved. And if she proceeds with the pregnancy she will most likely die. The doctor says she should have an abortion. What is the arguement against this scenario?

I am 100percent pro life but how do i answer to this? And i just need answers as far as if the mothers life is in danger
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Hi Meagan, thanks for this difficult question.

Before responding to the question of an abortion, it would be morally acceptable for a woman who was raped to use contraceptive means after the rape to prevent pregnancy (there can be quite a wide window period here) because she did not engage in the act of intercourse of her own free will but was rather forced upon sexually and violated.

With regards to abortion, what would be the dangerous situation that could cause the woman’s death? It is fine to medically treat the situation with the death of the child as an unfortunate but not intended side-effect, but not okay to directly induce an abortion.

Can you be a bit more specific?
 
offtopic - This reminds me of the scene in The Dark Knight with the two ships, lol.

Anyway,
  1. This situation is rare.
  2. Even if this did occur, the doctors and medical tests are not 100% accurate. There is no way to know for sure if the mother will die. So any pro-choice argument based on the death of the mother and child is “strong” at best (a “strong” argument means that the conclusion is probably true but it might not be. “Strong” arguments are not logically “valid”).
  3. Even if there was 100% certainty and the conclusion was “valid”, the problem is that one of the premises (the notion that "a woman is morally allowed to kill her child if her child will kill her and if the child will die anyway) is incorrect. That would still be murder. The child and mother have equal rights. The child is going to die regardless, and it is unfortunate that the mother and child will both die, but the mother does not have the right to kill the child.
    (But this argument is not going to work against a relativist (“The ends justify the means… if murder can be used to save a life then it is just.”) or against the stereotypical pro-choicer (“You put the fetus’s rights above the mother’s?! You’re a horrible person!!!”).)
 
This is slightly off topic, but i believe a good case against abortion & an example of the illogical thinking in society. I saw on tv tonight a mother who was jailed for 30yrs for murdering (apparently) her 4 babies (without a beyond reasonable doubt conviction). She supposedly had murdered them when they were all younger than 18mths old (most younger than 12months). … Her name /reputation is now ‘mud’,her sister has completely rejected her & thinks she deserves the death penalty, as well as most of her family having rejected her. It was said that she will always be known in society as ‘the woman who murdered her babies’. And so thinking about these attitudes, i could not help but consider the fact that had the babies been, say, 10 - 20 months younger, the same society would be applauding this mother’s right to.choose her lifestyle & getting the taxpayer to fund it. … ?? Could this be any more illogical.:confused:
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
Ok lets say::: a womanwas raped and concieved. And if she proceeds with the pregnancy she will most likely die. The doctor says she should have an abortion. What is the arguement against this scenario?

I am 100percent pro life but how do i answer to this? And i just need answers as far as if the mothers life is in danger
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I will share with you a real story of a family. Here is a link:
arkansas-catholic.org/news/brief/3639/Baby-shower-

There is an abortion clinic in our town. Prayer warriors are present during the days and times when abortions are performed. One day when they were praying a mother arrived at the clinic to abort her baby.

She came down to the sidewalk where she saw people praying. She spoke Spanish and the prayer warriors spoke English. So, they phoned for a Spanish speaking prayer warrior to help them.

The lady shared with them that she traveled from another state to abort her child BECAUSE her doctor told her that her baby had a problem and both she and her baby would die.

The prayer warriors quickly got her to the office of a wonderful pro-life OB doctor who works with mothers suffering with high risk pregnancy. He agreed that the baby had serious problems but knew the mother’s life was not in danger.

She chose not to abort her baby girl, Nellie

The prayer warrior world began many prayers for this child. With time, the doctor said a miracle was happening and the child was improving. At birth the child did need special care, a short time later the doctor’s were able to help the child with surgery.

Neither the mother or the baby died as the mother’s first doctor said would happen.

The prayer warriors provided not just prayers, but other help as well. This family was poor. The prayer warriors helped with fiances and other baby needs.

This family really wanted their child. Can you imagine the pain they would be in today if they had listened to the doctor who said she needed an abortion or else mother and baby would die?

When someone presents to you the case to prove against “the mother must have an abortion or she will die”… you do not need to prove them wrong. Doctors, OB doctors who specialize in High Risk pregnancy will tell you… this type case “where the mother will die unless she aborts” will most likely never be seen…

Many times pro-life laws will have the exception in the law: “except in the case of the life of the mother.” Why do pro-lifers allow the law to be presented like this?

Pro-life law makers are working hard. They write a wonderful bill that protects women from the dangers of abortion. Then when it is realize that the only way to get that law to pass is to add the clause “except for the life of the mother” - they add that clause.

Some law makers want to help the mothers, but they get that idea “what if this law causes a woman to die”. The pro-life law makers know the case is too rare to even expect it to be a true case, but they know the only way to get the other legislators to vote for the law - is to add “except in case of the mother’s life.”

God bless you Meagan for your beautiful heart that wants to help educate others on the issues of abortion.
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
Ok lets say::: a woman was raped and concieved.
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I have read on Priests for Life website by Fr. Frank Pavone this idea on rape and abortion.

It is said that a woman who suffers rape and then suffers abortion needs more help to heal from the abortion than from the rape.

The rape was a horrible experience that she endured. She was over-powered by someone stronger than her, someone who hurt her in a horrible way. She was weaker and they over-powered her.

If she aborts this child, she often will suffer from that abortion in an even worse way.

At some point after the abortion, she realizes that the precious child she aborted was her own precious child. The baby was not just “the monster’s baby”, not just the baby of the rapist. She will realize this was her very own precious baby.

Then she will see she did something horrible to her baby. She over-powered her baby. Her baby was weaker than her. She was stronger than her baby, she is the one who caused the harm - like the rapist did in harming her.

Many women suffer from Post Abortion Syndrome. The mother who is raped and aborts suffers it as well, but also has the feeling of being the victim in the rape and then being the one inflicting pain through abortion on her own victim, who is her precious child.
 
Dearest Maegan,

Here is information about a program called Camp Joshua, a pro-life workshop for teens. Maybe it is something you can attend one day. Programs like this often have camperships available to make sure everyone interested can attend.

campjoshuava.org/

You might even see if there is an opening for this upcoming camp near your birthday. See the actual link for the contact info.

Camp Joshua Virginia is a jam packed pro-life weekend that will equip you to be a leader in building up the Culture of Life!

Ages: High School Freshman, Sophomores, Juniors, and Seniors

If you have questions about camp please contact:

Megan xxx
phone xxx
or by email to
campjoshuava.org/register
 
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