I need help debunking an article

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Tyler_Reinarts

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First off, sorry if this isn’t the right place to post this. I’m still learning how the forum works.

Basically I was wondering if anyone could help me debunk this article that I stumbled upon a while ago. For some reason it won’t let me put a link to the address in here even though I’ve seen other people do it; but if you just search: “physical appearance of Jesus and Paul” on Google it’s the first thing that comes up

The author contends that Jesus of Nazareth and St Paul are the same person. They say that Jesus survived being crucified and then assumed the “alter ego” of Paul after appearing to his disciples to hide the fact that he never actually died; which is also why Paul isn’t introduced until after the ressurection. The author’s main source of purported evidence is that the apocryphal texts give physical descriptions of Jesus and Paul which are very similar, even explicitly saying that Jesus looked like Paul. There are also some other claims such as that Jesus and Paul both had physical deformities or that they were one and the same with Simon Magus. I’m not totally convinced by it but the evidence does seem to point toward the author’s position and it’s a bit troubling for me. So if anyone is feeling up to it I’d be very thankful if they could read the article as well and weigh in on how to refute it.
 
First off welcome!

Secondly, I’m not up to dealing with/debating others, but there are many others who visit this forum who are up to this task.

So, my thoughts on a couple of things you said as you wait for their comments-
Tyler_Reinarts said:
Paul isn’t introduced until after the ressurection.
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Up until the encounter on the road to Emmaus, Paul was Saul, so he was already a separate living person to Jesus, definitely not an alter ego. Why Did God change Sauls’s Name to Paul?

Siblings and even cousins can have similar facial characteristics, as can people from a particular region.

Jesus could not have a physical deformity as He is perfect Man (human body).

So, as well as trying to state that Paul is the alter ego of Jesus, is their thinking that Jesus is also Simon Magus??? Are they trying to establish that Jesus had a multi-personality disorder??? One word - weird.

Simon Magus " Full of indignation at such an offer Peter rebuked him sharply, exhorted him to penance and conversion and warned him of the wickedness of his conduct. Under the influence of Peter’s rebuke Simon begged the Apostles to pray for him (Acts 8:9-29). However, according to the unanimous report of the authorities of the second century, he persisted in his false views."
The above quote - the whole article is worthwhile reading - shows that Simon could not have been Jesus. Would Peter - who had seen and knew Jesus - confuse Jesus with this Simon? I think not.
 
I checked the website, and the author is a person by the name of Riaan Booysen.

Among the other theories on his website is that New Zealand is in fact Atlantis, and that dragons depicted on various ancient masonry are in fact a race of space-faring aliens, known as “Serpents”, who can fly and attack with fire.

I think that we have to pick and choose our battles carefully, and I’m not sure that this particular author’s theory on Jesus and Paul is worth it. Not to mention it’s utterly ridiculous.
 
@Tyler_Reinarts (I don’t know how this got directed to CRV. Sorry!)

Welcome to CAF, Tyler! Crawl all around the different areas and settle Into your comfort zone here. If you click on Categories, you’ll find a bunch more than those already listed.

Honestly, I believe you’ll accomplish more good by remaining silent and Googling and reading to your heart’s content in other directions. Sites that talk about the garbage you just mentioned aren’t worth thinking or writing about because the people there aren’t going to listen to anyone with different beliefs. I know you’re outraged and want only the truth to be told, but you’d be wasting your time with only a flame war to show for your efforts. They certainly aren’t worth getting riled about. Stay here; share your interests and engage with posters from all beliefs. We have some pretty spirited discussions here!

Apologetics falls flat when you can’t get the upper hand and keep it. Lol! In other words, you don’t help the faith when you lose, and you make yourself feel miserable and frustrated at the same time. Ahem! I guess you can figure out how I know that, right? ☺️
 
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Tyler_Reinarts said:
physical appearance of Jesus
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The measurements on the Shroud if it was Jesus’s body:
The image of the “Man of the Shroud” has a beard, moustache, and shoulder-length hair parted in the middle. He is muscular and tall (various experts have measured him as from 1.70 to 1.88 m or 5 ft 7 in to 6 ft 2 in). (see link above.
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The problem is that it is well known those in power will describe a person that they see as being inferior or a threat will describe that person as being weaker than themselves. One other thought has me wondering if an error was made in his physical build and that error was followed on by each subsequent author who assume it was the correct description. These are only my thoughts.

Found this, though you may have already read it:


http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1573-anthropology
 
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While that theory is very cute, wouldn’t the apostles have recognized the person who was persecuting and killing their followers?
 
Tyler_Reinarts said:
…The author contends that Jesus of Nazareth and St Paul are the same person. They say that Jesus survived being crucified and then assumed the “alter ego” of Paul after appearing to his disciples to hide the fact that he never actually died; which is also why Paul isn’t introduced until after the ressurection. The author’s main source of purported evidence…So if anyone is feeling up to it I’d be very thankful if they could read the article as well and weigh in on how to refute it.
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  1. First off, we have the infallible Catholic Church which authoritatively Teaches that they are different individuals. That should be enough.
  2. But, for those who need more, we have the Scriptures, which show that Jesus Christ was born of Mary and died upon the Cross to save us from our sins. And then was resurrected on the third day.
  3. Many people saw the resurrected Christ, including the Apostles and about 5000 others.
  4. There was no need for Christ to assume anyone’s alter ego. Jesus Christ was being preached by all the Apostles and many believers of the age. So, what purpose would it serve?
  5. So, they reject the miracle of the resurrection and replace it with the miraculous possession of not one, but two men. And no one caught the deception except a guy who was born 2000 years after the fact.
 
I am not sure why you would waste your time trying to debunk an article that sounds, from a logical standpoint, about as well reasoned as if it claimed Jesus was a space alien. Even if Jesus and Paul had similarities in appearance, that wouldn’t be unexpected given that both were Jewish people. Jesus very likely looked similar to Peter, James and John also, or else Judas wouldn’t have had to go point him out to the soldiers with a kiss, but simply could have said, “Jesus is the really tall one over there, go get him.”

Jesus did not go entering anyone as an “alter ego”. Furthermore the gospel description of Jesus being pierced by the soldier making sure he was dead (blood and water flowed out)is medically consistent with someone who had both bled out and suffocated to death by crucifixion (accounting for the water buildup). Jesus didn’t somehow survive the Crucifixion, he died.
 
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There’s an elderly lady who works part time as a sales clerk in a pharmacy near where I live. She bears an extraordinary resemblance to Hillary Clinton. I wonder whether they’re really the same person. Do you think I should ask her?
 
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Lol! Don’t pass up a good opportunity. Be her agent! Book her into speaking engagements! Your take would be enough to retire in luxury! 😂😂😂😂
 
If this causes you distress, you need to pray for strengthening your own faith, rather than concentrating on the lack of faith of someone else.
 
Where is this wanted poster? They didn’t show it at the site!

And why would the ROMANS put out a wanted poster for Jesus – we see in the gospels that it was the Jewish authorities that wanted Him prosecuted and the Roman Procurator, Pilate, was very reluctant to execute him.
 
BartholomewB said:
There’s an elderly lady who works part time as a sales clerk in a pharmacy near where I live. She bears an extraordinary resemblance to Hillary Clinton. I wonder whether they’re really the same person. Do you think I should ask her?
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I honestly think you should.
 
De_Maria said:
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Tyler_Reinarts:
…The author contends that Jesus of Nazareth and St Paul are the same person. They say that Jesus survived being crucified and then assumed the “alter ego” of Paul after appearing to his disciples to hide the fact that he never actually died; which is also why Paul isn’t introduced until after the ressurection. The author’s main source of purported evidence…So if anyone is feeling up to it I’d be very thankful if they could read the article as well and weigh in on how to refute it.
Click to expand...
  1. First off, we have the infallible Catholic Church which authoritatively Teaches that they are different individuals. That should be enough.
  2. But, for those who need more, we have the Scriptures, which show that Jesus Christ was born of Mary and died upon the Cross to save us from our sins. And then was resurrected on the third day.
  3. Many people saw the resurrected Christ, including the Apostles and about 5000 others.
  4. There was no need for Christ to assume anyone’s alter ego. Jesus Christ was being preached by all the Apostles and many believers of the age. So, what purpose would it serve?
  5. So, they reject the miracle of the resurrection and replace it with the miraculous possession of not one, but two men. And no one caught the deception except a guy who was born 2000 years after the fact.
Click to expand...
It always amazes me that people these days claim to know more about Jesus than the people that were actually there.
 
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There is an ancient fresco in Turkey that depicts St Paul and St Thecla. He was short and almost bald.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Jesus was tall and had a full head of hair, as the Shroud depicts him.
And yes, there are hundreds of other reasons why they couldn’t be the same.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Jesus was a space alien.
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Don’t give the website’s author any ideas! Otherwise he’ll come up with more gems, including:

“The Truth behind the Assumption: The Virgin Mary was Beamed Up to the Starship New Jerusalem”

“Peter and the Keys: USS New Jerusalem Captain Jesus Christ gives Peter the Keys to the Divine Transporter”
 
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