I need help (Purgatory)

[Robert_Michael]

I was talking to friends on MSN (one Catholic, another Protestant) and the subject of Hades came up. I remembered some things from Revelation, I got really confused.

So, I wrote this up in Microsoft Word. I hope someone can answer my two problems. This is hurting me, and is a stumbling block.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:41-44
The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Catholic: The Scriptures were written in Hebrew and Greek. “Purgatory” comes from the Latin word purgatorium. In Scripture, we do find references to an afterlife that is neither the hell of the damned nor heaven. In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word Sheol is used to describe this condition; in the New Testament, the Greek term is Hades.

Me: I have a couple problems with this. As we know, when Jesus Christ returns to earth, the dead in Christ will be raised with glorified bodies and those who are on the earth in Christ shall be caught up in to Christ and shall be with Him forever. They also shall inherit glorified bodies. The people of earth shall be judged, some to eternal life (Heaven), and others to eternal death (Gehenna, lake of fire). As the Bible says, Hades and death shall be thrown in the lake of fire as well.

Problem One: The Catholic position is that we must be in a state of grace when we die. However, even if in this state of grace, some might need further cleansing due to the stain of sin. You cannot behold the Beatific vision if you haven’t had this cleansing. How can anyone who needs this cleansing be caught up to the Lord Jesus Christ if he must go through purgatory?

Problem Two: What happens to those who need this purification but cannot get it due to Hades (purgatory) being thrown into the lake of fire? Also, what happens to those whose purification isn’t complete at the time that purgatory is thrown into the fiery lake? What is their fate?

I really hope someone helps me. God help me. Thank you.

 

[Neithan]

I was talking to friends on MSN (one Catholic, another Protestant) and the subject of Hades came up. I remembered some things from Revelation, I got really confused.

So, I wrote this up in Microsoft Word. I hope someone can answer my two problems. This is hurting me, and is a stumbling block.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:41-44
The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Catholic: The Scriptures were written in Hebrew and Greek. “Purgatory” comes from the Latin word purgatorium. In Scripture, we do find references to an afterlife that is neither the hell of the damned nor heaven. In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word Sheol is used to describe this condition; in the New Testament, the Greek term is Hades.

Me: I have a couple problems with this. As we know, when Jesus Christ returns to earth, the dead in Christ will be raised with glorified bodies and those who are on the earth in Christ shall be caught up in to Christ and shall be with Him forever. They also shall inherit glorified bodies. The people of earth shall be judged, some to eternal life (Heaven), and others to eternal death (Gehenna, lake of fire). As the Bible says, Hades and death shall be thrown in the lake of fire as well.

Problem One: The Catholic position is that we must be in a state of grace when we die. However, even if in this state of grace, some might need further cleansing due to the stain of sin. You cannot behold the Beatific vision if you haven’t had this cleansing. How can anyone who needs this cleansing be caught up to the Lord Jesus Christ if he must go through purgatory?

If we trust in God’s Providence, we can be confident that any souls alive needing purgation in the end times will be purified before the moment of Christ’s return, perhaps that is a function of the ‘Great Tribulation.’

Problem Two: What happens to those who need this purification but cannot get it due to Hades (purgatory) being thrown into the lake of fire? Also, what happens to those whose purification isn’t complete at the time that purgatory is thrown into the fiery lake? What is their fate?

I think the answer to Problem One suffices here as well: through the perfect order of Divine Providence, there will not be any saints (members of the Church destined for Heaven) in need of purgation at that time.

I really hope someone helps me. God help me. Thank you.

Peace of Christ be with you brother.

 

[Carlan]

If we trust in God’s Providence, we can be confident that any souls alive needing purgation in the end times will be purified before the moment of Christ’s return, perhaps that is a function of the ‘Great Tribulation.’
I think the answer to Problem One suffices here as well: through the perfect order of Divine Providence, there will not be any saints (members of the Church destined for Heaven) in need of purgation at that time.

Peace of Christ be with you brother.

Neithan, I think you answered quiet well, there is so much for which we must simply trust God:yup:Carlan

 

[Vincent]

Problem One: The Catholic position is that we must be in a state of grace when we die. However, even if in this state of grace, some might need further cleansing due to the stain of sin. You cannot behold the Beatific vision if you haven’t had this cleansing. How can anyone who needs this cleansing be caught up to the Lord Jesus Christ if he must go through purgatory?

Problem Two: What happens to those who need this purification but cannot get it due to Hades (purgatory) being thrown into the lake of fire? Also, what happens to those whose purification isn’t complete at the time that purgatory is thrown into the fiery lake? What is their fate?

The encounter with [Christ] is the decisive act of judgement. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms and frees us, allowing us to become truly ourselves. All that we build during our lives can prove to be mere straw, pure bluster, and it collapses.

Yet in the pain of this encounter, when the impurity and sickness of our lives become evident to us, there lies salvation. His gaze, the touch of his heart heals us through an undeniably painful transformation “as through fire”. But it is a blessed pain, in which the holy power of his love sears through us like a flame, enabling us to become totally ourselves and thus totally of God.

In this way the inter-relation between justice and grace also becomes clear: the way we live our lives is not immaterial, but our defilement does not stain us for ever if we have at least continued to reach out towards Christ, towards truth and towards love. Indeed, it has already been burned away through Christ’s Passion. At the moment of judgement we experience and we absorb the overwhelming power of his love over all the evil in the world and in ourselves. The pain of love becomes our salvation and our joy.

It is clear that we cannot calculate the “duration” of this transforming burning in terms of the chronological measurements of this world. The transforming “moment” of this encounter eludes earthly time-reckoning—it is the heart’s time, it is the time of “passage” to communion with God in the Body of Christ.

Pope Benedict XVI
Edited​