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Ite_ad_Ioseph
Guest
A.) render to Caesar
B.) turn the other cheek
B.) turn the other cheek
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Trident_H
Guest
Do you want to be a bit more specific in your ask? I mean for this I could just answer:
A) Give to the worldly rulers of this world the things that are of worldly origin. Give to God what is of spiritual origin.
B) Turning the other cheek was a powerful revelation to people that power does not exist in returning hurt when they’ve received hurt. True power of the spirit exists in being able to rise above the hurt that others might give you. It’s a showing-up of the animal kingdom. It’s a higher standard that we can rise to. It’s the basic formula for a successful society really. Because without it we’d all be obsessed with tearing each other down. Instead of leaving room for calmer heads to prevail. Instead of leaving room for people to apologize. For them to feel truly sorry.
Because you can’t really feel as easily sorry against someone who’s still trying to poke out your eyes in repayment. Your apology will get seen as just an effort to avoid your punishment. But if that first guy forgives you first? Or just stays his hand? Well then you can actually feel that want to make peace. For peace’s sake. For that balance instead.
Peace.
-Trident
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MaryHelp777
Guest
Render to Cesar
This means obey the law and rules when these laws and rules are not sinful. Such as pay your tax. Don’t speed on the road. Etc…
Turn the other cheek:
Jesus was saying sometimes, it is necessary to just not defend oneself, it takes prayer and the Holy Spirit to know when to defend oneself and when not to.
The answer is given later in the new Testament where it is written: “Cast not your pearls on swine, lest they trample them under foot and then turn and devour.you.”
This means: preach when needed to those who will listen, but if you know someone will not listen to one word of Holy advice from the catholic church, then be silent.
Jesus practiced both, he defended himself from the pharisees, even during some comments during His passion.
Yet He also knew He was to suffer the cross and turned the other cheek and did not use the temptation of being set free by Pilate who asked Him, “You know I.have the power to set you free.”
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ComplineSanFran
Guest
Well, not quite. Render unto Caesar means give to your government what is due, including taxes and obedience. There is no caveat that says you can opt out if you think it is sinful. Some governments will let you protest laws you do not like, but push comes to shove, you obey the law or suffer the consequences. Other governments do not allow protest.
Why would you think that you can choose to disobey laws?
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frangiuliano115
Guest
Render to Caesar:
There are two types of rulers: The worldly ruler and the heavenly ruler.
The worldly ruler, in this case, was the governing body of Israel at the time of Jesus, Rome. People should follow the law, respect the government because it is instituted by God (book of Romans), in the particular case you state, Jesus was saying to pay taxes to Rome.
Mathew 22:18-22
The pharisees wanted to trick Jesus to have Him executed by the Romans. They asked Him if it was right to pay taxes to Caeser. If He said No, He would have been executed for treason – if he said Yes, the Pharisees would declare Him disloyal to the nation of Israel.
As usual, Jesus knew what they were trying to do and responded to give to Caeser what is Caeser’s and give to God what is God’s.
Turn The Other Cheek
Slapping one on the cheek was an insult - a public affront to ones’s dignity. God’s prophets suffered from such treatment. 1 Kings 22:24 and so were those who were persecuted for following God.
We should indulge the offender to show that we are secure in our status with God, and we thus show contempt for the insulter’s opinion! (to him and also to onlookers).
In this way we show allegiance to a higher power and give no importance to the one doing the insulting.
This could apply to many situations. When one insults you, when a family member is giving you a difficult time, when a store manager won’t understand your problem, etc.
It means to love God more than to love offending who offends you.
Fran
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wmw
Guest
The Law of God supersedes all men’s laws. If a law is truly unjust one would be right to not obey it. Of course, consequences will follow, but if you are punished for doing God’s will your suffering will be rewarded in heaven. One should seek spiritual and legal council to be prepared for the consequences and to be sure your judgement of God’s will is not in error.
This is the same in the military in following orders. If you were ordered to shoot civilians and did not the CO should be court marshaled if all the facts were presented to a military court. Yet, if you followed the orders you too would face justice for your actions.
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MaryHelp777
Guest
Over here in Ireland a chemist pharmacy owner refused to sell contraceptive products, and lost his job.
This is an example of lawfully breaking the law.
The early Christians went to their.deaths rather than sin at the command of Roman Emperors.
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Nita
Guest
The verse contains 2 directives:
render unto Caesar what is Ceasar’s
AND
unto God what is God’s.
To sin is to disobey God’s law and thus fail to render unto God what is God’s. God’s law ranks above Caesar’s (earthly governments) law.
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mikekle
Guest
Yes, but Gods laws come first, mans laws come after that, we cannot be ‘fully faithful’ to both entities at the same time.
God never said it would be easy to live in the secular world as a christian, in fact, its very tough to stick to Gods laws, in the past, many have ended up in prison, tortured, and killed for their beliefs and refusal to deviate, God warned us times would come when the faithful are arrested and killed due to his name, this is basically refusing to abide by some secular law.
Furthermore, that 'Render onto Caesar" verse could also be a metaphor or symbolic of something else too, personally, the official interpretation seems a bit too convenient for modern secular authorities, kind of like, the bible tells us God must always come first, but oh yea, always pay your taxes and obey ALL worldly laws too…IDK about that.
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frangiuliano115
Guest
Hi Mikekle
Jesus used parables, allegory and hyperbole to explain to people of that day, in a way that could be understood by them, what His teachings were/are.
In the case of Mathew 22:18 He meant what He said. The Pharisees had tried many times to trip up Jesus with questions on religion, but they never succeeded, of course. Look who they were asking! So now they were trying with matters of state. They were very malicious with this question of whether or not to pay taxes.
It could take many paragraphs to answer this properly, I’m sure it could be found on the net. An interesting study, which also emphasizes the AUTHORITY of Jesus.
But, yes, He did actually mean, in this case, that we are to follow the rules of the state, even if they’re unjust. But NOT if they go against God’s Laws, which has been said by many poster before me.
Fran
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Vic_Taltrees_UK
Guest
Hitting the other cheek (with the other side of the hand) was a worse insult and was seen as demeaning the person seen to be doing it. Hence it is a challenge to the hitter to acknowledge that they would be demeaning themselves, hence they might well have desisted.
Similarly woe (under military law) to any soldier that got a civilian to carry his pack one yard more than a mile. Even though the system probably got wangled, the civilian is smilingly inviting the soldier to risk getting himself in trouble.
Jesus’ listeners would have been in stitches at these two examples.
They were anything but doormat situations.
Similarly woe (under military law) to any soldier that got a civilian to carry his pack one yard more than a mile. Even though the system probably got wangled, the civilian is smilingly inviting the soldier to risk getting himself in trouble.
Jesus’ listeners would have been in stitches at these two examples.
They were anything but doormat situations.
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PJM
Guest
Render to Caesar is a “down to earth” realization that we are to live IN the world, but not be consumed by it and temporal desires. he key word here being “consumed.”
Jesus is telling us here that live has a priority; and that priority is as it must be:
God 1st
Family second
Everything else next.
Another perspective is to ask “Who’s in Charge?”[Of our lives]
God gives two choices [not easy but with God’s help possible]
Either we permit God to run our lives [the right choice]
Or we choose to do it ourselves [wrong choice]
And the responsibility canno be split or dhared
Turn the other cheek simply means that
- God IS in charge of our lives
- We are NOT to seek vengeance
for one of two reasons:
- To Glorify God
- To Glorify God and POSSIBLY sanctify ourselves
If we make the wrong choice; God is still Glorified for having given us the opportunity to choose rightly; but we receive no benefit from it.
Isaiah 43: 7 & 21 “And every one that calleth upon my name, I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, and made him. & This people have I formed for myself, [Genesis 1: 26-27] they shall shew forth my praise.”
Ecclesiasticus 15:18 “Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose shall be given him”
God Bless you and thanks for asking
Patrick
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mikekle
Guest
Well, its been proven in the past many laws go against Gods laws, yet people keep on paying, most recently the planned parenthood scandal, while they are trying to stop the federal funding, MANY MANY people in recent years have paid into this thru their taxes, not to mention all the money that goes towards God knows what, that we do know about, that they keep secret.
Personally, I could never see a time when the CC instructed people to stop paying taxes,or to NOT obey a certain law, no matter how bad the law violated God, they would find a way to justify it, as not to stir up huge problems.
I think we will probably be held accountable for this too, (myself included), when God asks why I didnt stop when I learned of such a law or tax, and my only response could be, “well,. I didnt want to get arrested or get into trouble”…somehow I dont think that excuse will fly with God.
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frangiuliano115
Guest
Why shouldn’t the excuse fly with God? He said to pay your taxes and you did.
You can’t be held responsible for what’s done with your tax money. Like, you said, who knows what they do with it all - it sure is a lot that we pay! You can’t stop obeying a law like that - it would be against what Jesus taught. Taxes were very unfair in His time too. Remember how Mathew (formerly Levi-the tax collector) was so despised by everyone because he squeezed blood out of his countrymen for the sake of Rome. Jesus knew this and still said to pay.
The possibility of now following a law could be, for example, that clerk down south who refuses to sign SSM certificates and lost her job, then was reinstated, but she still won’t sign. i think it means more this type of demonstration of your unwillingness to obey a state or govt law.
Anyway, God will be very understanding. He became one of us, right?
Fran
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