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MarkInOregon
Guest
Couple of Questions: Are you sure you will get an annulment? If not should you be dating? Or would you make full disclosure regarding your status with regards to marriage?
Peace of Christ,
Mark
- Status
Peace of Christ,
Mark
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Fairwinds
Guest
you’re going to pay those fees anyway.
you’d better hire the most aggressive, take no prisoners lawyer you can afford and hire him yesterday or you’re going to be run into the dirt. take if from one who does this for a living. you are one big hindenberg-style balloon just ready to be shot down in flames.
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hurting
Guest
You might go down like the Hindenberg even with the big shot attorney. Sometimes it’s just in the cards that way.
It should not be this way, of course, but life is not fair, and family law jurisprudence in the USA is not even as fair as life in general if you are a man. Unless you have some kind of magic sway over her (I had a buddy who convinced his ex-wife to let him do their whole dissolution pro se, so he got a very good deal - ATYPICAL), she is going to start seeing the dollar signs. It does not appear that you possess this influence, so lawyer up.
No offense to Fairwinds, but domestic relations law is not the most complicated thing in the world. A person with a reasonable understanding of contract law should be able to construct a dissolution with a cooperative spouse. Odds are, however, the judge will look dimly upon pro se filing AND you won’t have a cooperative spouse.
Get ready to pay up ($225 per billable hour in my area; in 1/10 hour increments). That means that every telephone conversation between the attorneys about your case, however, short, runs $45.
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Fairwinds
Guest
he might, but its certain he will without his own attack dog.
its not complex, but it is a specialist kind of practice. it would be foolish for the OP to try in on his own. if both spouses were fair minded and knew all the ins and outs of family law (includes contract law, spousal support, child support, estate appraisal etc.), they might work out a fair deal if the estate were small and/or there were no kids. if there were kids involved the judge will take a closer look at a settlement but if not, its a contract and if the contract was voluntarily entered, it doesn’t have to be fair. since she’s got a lawyer, never, for one second, assume her attorney is working for a fair deal.
in the OP’s case there obviously hostility and hurt feelings. a guy I worked with and I were discussing family law fights. I opined that spouses fight because they like fighting – they’ll fight over spoons or the vacation home with equal ferocity. his opinion – more insightful – was that they fight to hurt each other. the OP will encounter a dispassionate adversary in the other lawyer, but that kind of vindictiveness from the spouse.
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cheezey
Guest
HH…ALWAYS expect the unexpected!
Truer words were never typed.
No divorce is without complications, even the so-called simpler ones.
Mine was simpler, but the things my ex said and did had my lawyer in stitches, they were so ridiculous, stupid and vindictive. And it cost me every time he did so, which did not have me in stitches with the bill.
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hurthusband
Guest
I try not to worry about it too much. My lawyer will handle things as well as she can.
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Fairwinds
Guest
Sir, there’s 31 pages of you worrying.
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Martin66
Guest
First of all, why not file first? You are wasting time and giving her a tactical advantage. If you have an attorney then just get it done. You could always put the divorce on hold.
Second, you have been somewhat vague about the proof of adultery you have. I don’t know the state you live in, but some states allow judges to withhold/reduce alimony based on evidence of adultery. Text messages alone won’t cut it as evidence. You should definitely meet with your attorney to see what you need to do to make your case. Hiring a private detective may be necessary. Once your wife gets wind of the implications of adultery and how it could impact her “getting paid”, then she will shut down the paramour quickly, or become extremely sneaky and careful. She was sloppy in the past, which is how you became aware of the text messages. It’ shocking how difficult it can be to prove adultery in many states. In other states adultery does not matter at all in regard to the final ruling.
Cut out the references to dating and meeting women. This could and probably will be used against you. I understand completely how you are feeling now, but you have to stop venting publicly and talking too much. Talk with your priest, get a counselor, and discuss with your lawer but DO NOT create a public record on the internet. I suggest you post less on this thread, and take the posts down if that’s possible.
One last piece of advice - you need to work on YOU, before you start dating. I am the vicitm of an adulterous wife, but at times when I am completely honest with myself I realize that I contributed to her unhapppiness in small ways and this created an opening for the devil to introduce temptation. I need to work on some facets of my personality to ensure that my future spouse (if God wills it) and I will not repeat history. I became so focused on providing for my wife’s physical needs that I neglected her needs for intimacy (not sex) and communication. She no longer felt a connnection with me, so she found it with someone else. I take no blame for what she did, but I do accept that had I kept our connection alive then she would probably not have stepped out of our marriage. You will also need to grieve the loss of your marriage. You are running on anger now, but it will not always be this way. And you don’t want to date for revenge, just to make her feel bad and show her how quickly you found someone else.
Second, you have been somewhat vague about the proof of adultery you have. I don’t know the state you live in, but some states allow judges to withhold/reduce alimony based on evidence of adultery. Text messages alone won’t cut it as evidence. You should definitely meet with your attorney to see what you need to do to make your case. Hiring a private detective may be necessary. Once your wife gets wind of the implications of adultery and how it could impact her “getting paid”, then she will shut down the paramour quickly, or become extremely sneaky and careful. She was sloppy in the past, which is how you became aware of the text messages. It’ shocking how difficult it can be to prove adultery in many states. In other states adultery does not matter at all in regard to the final ruling.
Cut out the references to dating and meeting women. This could and probably will be used against you. I understand completely how you are feeling now, but you have to stop venting publicly and talking too much. Talk with your priest, get a counselor, and discuss with your lawer but DO NOT create a public record on the internet. I suggest you post less on this thread, and take the posts down if that’s possible.
One last piece of advice - you need to work on YOU, before you start dating. I am the vicitm of an adulterous wife, but at times when I am completely honest with myself I realize that I contributed to her unhapppiness in small ways and this created an opening for the devil to introduce temptation. I need to work on some facets of my personality to ensure that my future spouse (if God wills it) and I will not repeat history. I became so focused on providing for my wife’s physical needs that I neglected her needs for intimacy (not sex) and communication. She no longer felt a connnection with me, so she found it with someone else. I take no blame for what she did, but I do accept that had I kept our connection alive then she would probably not have stepped out of our marriage. You will also need to grieve the loss of your marriage. You are running on anger now, but it will not always be this way. And you don’t want to date for revenge, just to make her feel bad and show her how quickly you found someone else.
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hurthusband
Guest
Martin,
Relax. I never said I was dating. Did I? Here’s what I said -
A year or two from now I’ll be off the market. Men like me don’t grow on trees you know. I have good women after me already. There are a lot of good single women out there, but not so many good single men. The numbers are in my favor.
Relax. I never said I was dating. Did I? Here’s what I said -
A year or two from now I’ll be off the market. Men like me don’t grow on trees you know. I have good women after me already. There are a lot of good single women out there, but not so many good single men. The numbers are in my favor.
H
hurting
Guest
Yes, this is the part that really sucks. See, you pay, one way or another, for one or both parties’ acrimony and spite. I kept a meticulous record of every conversation I hae with my attorney, down to the minutes and seconds and topics discussed. I always had a prepared list of questions whenever I called him.
None of the prep work I did could countervail, however, the expenses I incurred when he had to respond to ridiculous questions or proposals from my wife’s attorney (who clearly was incompetent in some respects) or correct errors that my wife’s attorney made in filing.
It is an ugly business pervaded by wide discretion on the part of the judges.
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Fairwinds
Guest
I hope you’re in a no-fault state.
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hurting
Guest
Fairwinds,
Pardon me from operating from my convenience sample of one, but there is no guarantee that their presumed ‘dispassionate’ stance to do anything less than protect their own interests. Indeed there are seriously flawed, perverse incentives to motivate them to encourage pettiness and essentially none to discourage it.
You are absolutely correct to advise the OP that he should never assume that his wife’s attorney is working for a fair deal (as I put forth above, there is no such thing as a fair deal by any layperson’s standard in US domestic relations law - for men).
Regarding your comment about the specialization of DR law, I assume you’re referring to, at least in part, the differential state laws, etc. If not, or in addition, how is DR law more specialized than other areas?
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Fairwinds
Guest
each attorney has an ethical obligation to vigorously represent his or her client. that’s the nature of an adversarial system. personally, I don’t have time to be petty and no one wants to pay for pettiness.
some states certify lawyers as a specialists in fields of law, including family law. this involves extra education and experience in that field and an exam. in a more informal way, a lawyer who is around the family law courts gets to know what each judge likes or dislikes in a presentation, knows how the system works behind the scenes (how to deal with clerks, where the delays are), little things like that that can make a difference. in a small town this could be a big deal. every lawyer I know has experienced getting hometowned. a generalist might not be aware of stuff this.
it all depends on where the OP is living.
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Martin66
Guest
OK HH, it’s only my opinion. I hope you can work out an amicable settlement with your spouse and litigation is not necessary. tMy best wishes go out to you.
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hurthusband
Guest
I hear you. Thanks. I’ll be careful.
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Sheeniac
Guest
I will be praying for you HH.
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hurting
Guest
Got it. From everyone I’ve talked to, if I’d have lived literally 1/2 mile from where my wife filed (in an adjoining county (large, urban) where we were married), my case might have turned out differently. Interestingly, I specifically sought out a practitioner who had lots of experience practicing in front of the judge, and still got killed, even though the clerk’s office had never even heard of my wife’s attorney.
I did as much due diligence as I could and have come to the conclusion that I got the best deal (and it sucked) I was going to get given the jurisdiction. That is cold comfort, though.
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Fairwinds
Guest
I hear you.
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hurthusband
Guest
Well everyone. It finally happened. I was served papers yesterday by my soon to be ex wife’s aunt. The aunt indicated to me that the whole thing has been my fault, so I just said please hand me the papers and walked away. The wife is asking for $750 per month in spousal support eventhough we make almost exactly the same money. There is also something in the papers that says our house is in title to me, the wife and the mother in law in unequal shares whatever that means. I’m just looking out for myself now. So ready to be done with this and try to get an annulment. 24 years down the drain.
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cheezey
Guest
You have kids, right? Then it was not all down the drain.
(But I understand what you meant. Been there…)
I’ll be praying for you.
(But I understand what you meant. Been there…)
I’ll be praying for you.
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