I need help! Wife issues

[Guineviere]

Guinevere:

Your message was very powerful and spoke directly to my heart. Thank you so much for writing this.

One question: How did the degree of nullity help you? If you are comfortable discussing on the forum then thank you. Otherwise, could you send me a private message? I think your answer would help me even more than you already have.

Your husband must be mad to let such a strong and confident woman slip through his hands!

I can’t count how many times he has apologized to me, even within the past month. I think his apologies are sincere in the sense that he regrets how his actions have affected him and his career. He somehow envisioned us remaining the best of friends once the dust settled and even he talked about getting back together down the road. It’s truly bizarre.

The actual decree itself didn’t do anything. It told me nothing I didn’t already feel in my heart. It was the process of self-examination that allowed me to heal. The day I got the final decree in the mail it was really of no significance beyond a relief that it was complete.

The turning point for me was when my ex and I were corresponding regarding the questions. I asked him some questions directly regarding how he viewed marriage, just to help make sense of things in my mind…to make sure I was doing the right thing by filing. From what he told me, divorce was always an option in the back of his mind if things “didn’t work out.” Of course, he hoped it would all work out.

That was a bigger betrayal than the affairs in my mind. It was then that I came to the realization that his vows were meaningless. The final reality, there never was the sacramental bond of marriage. I had been sitting on the questionnaire for 2 years and I sat down that night and wrote nearly 20 pages of answers.

The biggest thing the process did was let me take an honest look at myself and my part in the failure of my marriage. I was able to stop blaming myself and stop feeling like a failure. I feel so much better equipped to build healthy relationships in the future because of it. I have identified red flags and non-negotiables.

Of course, I’m not perfect and I still have low moments from time to time when I’m feeling sorry for myself and the difficult situations I never signed up for. Even still, I don’t look back and I don’t go through the “what-ifs.” There is only one reality, and that is where my focus needs to be, my life today and building stronger relationships with my loved ones.

 

[styrgwillidar]

…
The actual decree itself didn’t do anything. …

.
The biggest thing the process did was let me take an honest look at myself and my part in the failure of my marriage. … I feel so much better equipped to build healthy relationships in the future because of it. I have identified red flags and non-negotiables.

…

Guineviere my experience of the process was similar to yours,

I don’t know if you’re willing to discuss it, however, did you review the full witness statements and the full decision?

I was provided the opportunity to review the witness statements at the diocese offices and found it very helpful - seeing the witnesses view of the relationship, how they viewed each of us, incidents and statements I wasn’t aware of. My advocate and my spouse were both provided the opportunity but declined. My advocate indicated that most choose not to review them.

Similarly, I was provided the opportunity to read the full decision. It was interesting in the way the tribunal analyzed and viewed the marriage. Their thought process in approaching it and coming to their decision. Again, an independent viewpoint that helped me understand myself, my actions,the reality of the marriage better. Again, my advocate indicated most people choose not to review it.

I was curious as to your thoughts, if you’re willing to share them.

 

[Guineviere]

Guineviere my experience of the process was similar to yours,

I don’t know if you’re willing to discuss it, however, did you review the full witness statements and the full decision?
…

I was curious as to your thoughts, if you’re willing to share them.

I opted not to read the witness statements. His mother was a witness and I didn’t want to read anything that might make me angry with her. She had been divorced 4 times and has very odd new-age ideas, so her take on our relationship wasn’t super benificial. As for my witnesses, I couldn’t imagine they had said anything that they hadn’t expressed to me during the course of the divorce. And finally, my ex, he had answered a lot of the questions to me via email. Honestly, his take on our marriage was so skewed I didn’t want to know how he justified his actions. I’m about 99% he said things about me that were fabricated in his mind and I really didn’t want to open up that can of worms.

It would have been interesting to read the full decision just to see how it all worked out. In my mind, I had already accepted it, the decision was cut and dry, and most of all, I didn’t want to dredge up the past yet again.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Guineviere,

In talking to my wife up to her moving out, I don’t think she even understood herself- so I can certainly understand your comments about your ex. How much they said was real, how much was rationalization, how much was self-delusion, how much just to placate you. Especially since. you were still talking with your ex back and forth.

And your point about possible anger/resentment is valid. I didn’t have my heart set on a particular decision-- but I really did want to understand what was going on. Hence, it was easier for me to just take statements at face-value. Realize each was stating their viewpoint based on knowledge they had and their sincere beliefs. I didn’t necessarily agree but I was definitely open to considering what they had to say and not harboring resentment. It would have been much harder to do if I went in wanting a particular decision. ETA: I was actually surprised at the number of things in statements that folks hadn’t been willing to bring up to me before.

Thanks for your comments,

 

[Guineviere]

Anyone who has read this entire thread knows that I’ve been through all of those emotions too. I’m in the acceptance / take care of myself stage. Now its all about being true to myself and myy kids. They’ll have a relationship with their mom that will never be the same and that’s her deal. I want to maintain our traditions and create new ones too. My life won’t be defined by one woman’s infidelity. It will be defined by me.

I’ve been following this thread on and off from the very beginning. My heart sank when I read your first post. I was on CA, under another name, when my ex was exhibiting odd behaviors. Everyone was so positive and uplifting…read this book, read that book, say this prayer. It’s hard to go through what we’ve been through and not feel jaded. It’s hard for me to read about one person giving up on a marriage and really believe it has a chance. I have a hard time watching others being strung along. There is always that shimmer of hope that maybe this will be the marriage that survives and is stronger in the long run.

At the end of the day, all of us here know we did everything we could do to save our marriages. I don’t think any of us when down without a fight.

 

[styrgwillidar]

I’ve been following this thread on and off from the very beginning. My heart sank when I read your first post. I was on CA, under another name, when my ex was exhibiting odd behaviors. Everyone was so positive and uplifting…read this book, read that book, say this prayer. It’s hard to go through what we’ve been through and not feel jaded. It’s hard for me to read about one person giving up on a marriage and really believe it has a chance. I have a hard time watching others being strung along. There is always that shimmer of hope that maybe this will be the marriage that survives and is stronger in the long run.

At the end of the day, all of us here know we did everything we could do to save our marriages. I don’t think any of us when down without a fight.

Agreed. I can look at myself in the mirror, I’m comfortable that I did everything I could have given what I knew at the time. If I hadn’t made those efforts that didn’t pan out, I would now be regretting not having tried them.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’ve been following this thread on and off from the very beginning. My heart sank when I read your first post. I was on CA, under another name, when my ex was exhibiting odd behaviors. Everyone was so positive and uplifting…read this book, read that book, say this prayer. It’s hard to go through what we’ve been through and not feel jaded. It’s hard for me to read about one person giving up on a marriage and really believe it has a chance. I have a hard time watching others being strung along. There is always that shimmer of hope that maybe this will be the marriage that survives and is stronger in the long run.

At the end of the day, all of us here know we did everything we could do to save our marriages. I don’t think any of us when down without a fight.

I know a fellow who was all set to leave his wife for another woman, thought it was the right thing to do, and then was convicted to go back and work through his issues with his wife before moving on to someone else. They did work things through, they are still married, and very happily retired together. It does happen, so it is worth trying. As you say, if what can be tried doesn’t work, you can know you tried what you could and with any luck you know what went wrong and how not to let it happen again, if it happens that you are free to try again. After all, what is worse than going through a divorce, getting a decree of nullity, and then getting into another similar marriage and having to go through another similar divorce because you never learned to recognize what went wrong the first time? That is surely the worst, but it happens too often.

 

[Guineviere]

Easter - No doubt it does work out sometimes. Even if the odds are only 1:1,000, it is so worth the effort! One of my closest friends went through it about a year after I did. Her husband came to his senses, moved back in and they just celebrated their 23 anniversary. My ex was one of the people telling him he was making a huge mistake…good for him! Neither of them were products of divorce. I cannot help but believe this played a significant roll.

At the end of the day, I feel great sorrow for all the tortured souls that simply don’t know how to handle mid-life crisis. It can’t be easy just walking away. I don’t think they just wake up one day and say “time to move on.” I think it’s a struggle and in the end they don’t know what to do so they run. Little do they know…new and bigger problems are waiting around the corner.

 

[EasterJoy]

Easter - No doubt it does work out sometimes. Even if the odds are only 1:1,000, it is so worth the effort! One of my closest friends went through it about a year after I did. Her husband came to his senses, moved back in and they just celebrated their 23 anniversary. My ex was one of the people telling him he was making a huge mistake…good for him! Neither of them were products of divorce. I cannot help but believe this played a significant roll.

At the end of the day, I feel great sorrow for all the tortured souls that simply don’t know how to handle mid-life crisis. It can’t be easy just walking away. I don’t think they just wake up one day and say “time to move on.” I think it’s a struggle and in the end they don’t know what to do so they run. Little do they know…new and bigger problems are waiting around the corner.

Exactly.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Easter - No doubt it does work out sometimes. Even if the odds are only 1:1,000, it is so worth the effort! One of my closest friends went through it about a year after I did. Her husband came to his senses, moved back in and they just celebrated their 23 anniversary. My ex was one of the people telling him he was making a huge mistake…good for him! Neither of them were products of divorce. I cannot help but believe this played a significant roll.

At the end of the day, I feel great sorrow for all the tortured souls that simply don’t know how to handle mid-life crisis. It can’t be easy just walking away. I don’t think they just wake up one day and say “time to move on.” I think it’s a struggle and in the end they don’t know what to do so they run. Little do they know…new and bigger problems are waiting around the corner.

Yes, and then throw depression into the mix…

If the grass in your yard isn’t green because you didn’t take care of it, that grass on the other side will turn just as brown for the same reasons.

 

[Evania]

Yes, and then throw depression into the mix…

If the grass in your yard isn’t green because you didn’t take care of it, that grass on the other side will turn just as brown for the same reasons.

Excellent analogy.

 

[hurthusband]

Yes, and then throw depression into the mix…

If the grass in your yard isn’t green because you didn’t take care of it, that grass on the other side will turn just as brown for the same reasons.

Mine suffers (suffered) from depression as well. Took several different meds over the years, but didn’t go to her psychologist appointments. I truly believe thats meds without therapy doesn’t work. Also some of the medications don’t make you better. They just change who you are. After doing an internet search and learning about some of these drugs I regretted not looking into this years ago when something could have been done to help my wife. It might not have changed the outcome, but it was probably my duty as a husband to be more aware of the intricacies of my wife’s mental health issues. Not only did I learn that she skipped the counseling appointments, she also wasn’t consistent taking her meds.

 

[Martin66]

At the end of the day, I feel great sorrow for all the tortured souls that simply don’t know how to handle mid-life crisis. It can’t be easy just walking away. I don’t think they just wake up one day and say “time to move on.” I think it’s a struggle and in the end they don’t know what to do so they run. Little do they know…new and bigger problems are waiting around the corner.

I have worked through many issues, but one I struggle with is “what if she is happier with the other guy, her depression/anxiety goes away, her migraines stop, and she becomes the girl I married again, but with the new guy ?” I would really feel like a total failure, and all that blame for the breakup that she has tried to throw at me would probably start to stick. That would be a hard blow for me to absorb!

---

HH, I also have been to similar websites and have no doubt that my wife’s antidepressant medication caused the mental changes that caused her not to be happy in our marriage. Many people have shared their experiences with runaway spouse syndrome after antidepressants were introduced, and it’s shocking how similar situations are. My wife has acutally said some of the same lines to me that others have heard from their spouses when they checked out of their marriages. By the time I knew about the potential side effects of antidepressants it was too late for me to have done anything. I showed my wife these websites and she dismissed them, saying our situation was different.

 

[Martin66]

I often wonder how many otherwise healthy marriages are ended by the use of antidepressants. Family doctors now prescribe these medicines, with no requirement for counseling or follow up. As depression is still seen as a stigma in society, how many spouses get these medicines and take them without telling their mates?

My wife was given antidepressants by a neurologist for migraines, and although it didn’t work she told me she liked how they made her feel. When the neurologist took my wife off the meds, she then went to the family doctor and received a new prescription for the same drug. Her personality changed completely in just a few short months.

 

[hurthusband]

I often wonder how many otherwise healthy marriages are ended by the use of antidepressants. Family doctors now prescribe these medicines, with no requirement for counseling or follow up. As depression is still seen as a stigma in society, how many spouses get these medicines and take them without telling their mates?

My wife was given antidepressants by a neurologist for migraines, and although it didn’t work she told me she liked how they made her feel. When the neurologist took my wife off the meds, she then went to the family doctor and received a new prescription for the same drug. Her personality changed completely in just a few short months.

I’ve heard that my ex is off the meds now and feels better than ever. I tried to get her off of them but she wouldn’t do it. As far as your ex being happier with someone else? That’s a tough one isn’t it. You don’t really want to wish her any ill will, but you probably want her to pay the price for ruining your marruage, right? I also struggle with this. I wanted my ex to be happy with me and our kids. Apparently she wasn’t. Do I want her to be unhappy forever? No, not forever, but maybe for a while. However, if I ever see the guy that got in the middle of my marriage there’s going to be a problem.

 

[hurting]

I’ve heard that my ex is off the meds now and feels better than ever. I tried to get her off of them but she wouldn’t do it. As far as your ex being happier with someone else? That’s a tough one isn’t it. You don’t really want to wish her any ill will, but you probably want her to pay the price for ruining your marruage, right? I also struggle with this. I wanted my ex to be happy with me and our kids. Apparently she wasn’t. Do I want her to be unhappy forever? No, not forever, but maybe for a while. However, if I ever see the guy that got in the middle of my marriage there’s going to be a problem.

No, guys, it’s really not a tough one at all. Don’t conflate temporal happiness with manifest sin. Your spouses were supposed to be happy (in the ‘get each other to heaven’ kind of way) with you and your children. Someone who is ‘happy’ after purposely destroying the lives of other good people, especially children, can only exist in that state if they lack a well-developed conscience.

You shouldn’t want her to be happy in the worldly, temporal sense at all, ever. Accommodating destructive behavior is bad for all involved. This is not to say you shouldn’t try to get past it for your own wellbeing.

 

[MJJean]

Guineviere my experience of the process was similar to yours,

I don’t know if you’re willing to discuss it, however, did you review the full witness statements and the full decision?

I was provided the opportunity to review the witness statements at the diocese offices and found it very helpful - seeing the witnesses view of the relationship, how they viewed each of us, incidents and statements I wasn’t aware of. My advocate and my spouse were both provided the opportunity but declined. My advocate indicated that most choose not to review them.

Similarly, I was provided the opportunity to read the full decision. It was interesting in the way the tribunal analyzed and viewed the marriage. Their thought process in approaching it and coming to their decision. Again, an independent viewpoint that helped me understand myself, my actions,the reality of the marriage better. Again, my advocate indicated most people choose not to review it.

I was curious as to your thoughts, if you’re willing to share them.

I am going through the annulment process now. I absolutely want to review the witness statements and the Tribunals’ full decision once I am at that point. Other than knowing how friends and family viewed my failed marriage I think the Tribunal would offer even more interesting insights.

I thought I’d remarried and healed and I was wrong. I was still carrying baggage I was unaware of 12 years and remarriage later. Now that I see what I was carrying I can let it go. I’d hope the witness and Tribunal statements would either show me that I have fully healed and have learned all I can from the first marriage and divorce or show me how I can finally arrive at that point.

 

[hydin]

I am joining this post for the first time and I have no idea how I arrived here — Maybe the Holy Spirit?I have not read every post but have the main points of your situation.

I am a month away from having my divorce final. Wife filed in 3/2011. We have been in the house together the entire time. No affair No abuse. I love her l. Kids college. I spent today dividing everything we own. and I end up here. Must be for a reason.

keep a couple things in mind that will get you through this… They may sound harsh at first but they are true and will help. But first I need to tell you what worked for me. Holy Thursday 2011 in adoration I lost it, tears were streaming down my face. I could not keep it in. Good Friday we venerate the Cross and it is a huge cross. well, I knelt down and hugged the cross and told Jesus I was leaving the pain divorce with him at the Cross. And I did. I united my pain with the Cross. for the next year, whenever I started to feel sorry for mysel within 30 minutes someone would show up, call or somehow remind me how loved I was and how lucky I was, every time. within 30 minutes. After a year the time was within an hour but still God working. I am happier now than ever. I like ME. I have tons of flaws but I see a guy who is doing his best today and will be better tomorrow. God is amazing. Ilove my wife. I want to reconcile. I pray that she have peace every night. I pray that God’s will, not mine be done.

OK… Hard part (I am here for you… I will not leave you.) First thing you need to realize, and really take in to your heart and mind, it will help you heal. Ready?? Her emotional affair and maybe more was not the cause of your marriage break up. It made sense to your wife to look for something somewhere else. (that is not blaming you, it is not right, but it made sense to HER, your opinion doesn’t matter… when you tell her she is wrong all you do is validate her reasons for doing it. Everyone makes Sense all the time. Everyone and all the time… to themselves (your opinion is just that). I stole this from a great free website check out Alturtle.com Read what to do when he/she leaves… TONIGHT!. Ready for number 2? You can only change you. work to clean up your side of the street. Forget about her side. It doesn’t matter All you can control in this entire process is you. Look back at things and figure out where things started to breakdown… What you could have done better. drop the words “she”, “her” “you” insert the word “I” . I felt… I did… I could have… It will help you prepare for whatever God puts in your path. You kids are watching. Make yourself the best man you can be… for them. Let her go. You say you are OK but I can see you are not in your recent posts… You have very deep wounds and keep picking them. Ask yourself this question… Do you still love her? If you do then you want her to be happy. It is not love if you don’t what her to have what she sees as happiness. You are being controlling It will make you feel better to admit where you messed up or did not meet her needs (don’t BLAME yourself, just notice and admit you could have done better.). She didn’t meet yours but remember, you can only change you. forget her side. if she was 95% at fault… focus on your 5%. Pray. Give up your pain… When you start to take it back remember you gave it to God… He has it now… quit taking it back…Trust him. Talk to God. Tell him exactly what you are thinking. You can’t save your marriage but He can. There is nothing you can do right now to get her back… give up for now. Work on you. She may notice in 6 months, she won’t believe it for another 6 months. She may never notice… remember, that is not your business anyway.

I have been married for 28 years. I love her even tonight. I also don’t react to her like I would have 4 years ago. She can’t make me feel anything. I choose to feel what I feel. Only I choose how I show up with her. I choose how to react. She can’t make me do or feel anything I do not choose to feel.

Be honest with yourself. would you really want her to show up tonight and share your bed? I guess you would want to work on things first. so do that… on yourself. I will be praying for you. Go to Alturtle.com and read. Think about you, traits you wish you didn’t have, things you that you really don’t like about yourself (I didn’t like me so I criticized people way too much to cover up my lacking self worth == I must have been an a&# to be around. I also would speak on any subject to anyone and act like I knew everything and my way was the right way - It was really fun when I told my kids for the first time… you do realize that I have no idea what I am talking about… right? or Hey, that is just one guys opinion… very freeing not to have to know everything… that was my part of the street…) I share this to help you. Look at how you grew up… not blaming… observing… noticing… wondering… realize how that shaped you and it makes sense… define what you want to change and start changing … NOW. for you and you alone. Others will notice. Your wife? who knows… That is not your business anyway. Admit where you failed the marriage… how horrible it must have been for her to have to get those needs met by the other guy and not you. Observe, don’t blame. splitting post for ca

 

[hydin]

I will stop now and wait to see your response. I do have one other piece of advice. File first if you can. You have grounds according to the church… If you don’t (I didn’t) she controls everything and you have to do 75% of the work in discovery _ defendent gets to provide all joint account info ect. If you file you also control the timing of when things happen and how fast. If she files you get 30 days in most stated to respond and she sets the court date for temporary orders. If you you can delay… you have the ball. Always remember this… you will not win her back by being generous in the settlement or process. You will seem weak to her and she will make fun of you. Her lawyers will ask for more than you offer anyway. Divorce is a business deal. Make it one. No emotion. Be a good man. Split things so you would take either side and be happy. Nothing you do in the divorce process will influence her to notice your changes faster than being strong and standing up gently and fairly for yourself. Be nice but be firm. “No, I can’t accept that” instead of “what are you? crazy… you are killing me”. be the man you look in the mirror at and smile. Your kids will see the truth in time. It is sad when they do… that is their mom… No one wins in divorce. Work on you, trust in Jesus, Before you have any conversation with her anytime about anything, call someone (not your kids)_ and run through it… choose how you react. Pause. Remember, your goal is to get your wife back. Never forget that. But you want a faithful wife… you deserve that. Sure you own part of the reason for her actions… but you are fixing that starting tonight. Remember…I, me I,not She, her if only… It doesn’t change anything. You can only change you. for me that took my full attention…May you feel the arms of Christ around you tonight. He is with you. He wants to share this journey with you. Let Him. Give up the pain. DO not take it back. God loves you. Sometimes it is not about you… it is about people watching you… or learning from you…be a good man… for you. God Bless you. You are a great Dad. You are a faithful Catholic. You are wanting to save your marriage when others would call you crazy (I am just as crazy…). God is good all the time. Trust him. Trust his will. Sorry for going on so long. I asked the Holy Spirit to give me what you needed to hear tonight… hope I got it right… Best today, better tomorrow my friend. God has a plan for both of us. I also hope we get credit for purgatory time for our adventures… I’ll be mad if we don’t…

 

[hurting]

I will stop now and wait to see your response. I do have one other piece of advice. File first if you can. You have grounds according to the church… If you don’t (I didn’t) she controls everything and you have to do 75% of the work in discovery _ defendent gets to provide all joint account info ect. If you file you also control the timing of when things happen and how fast. If she files you get 30 days in most stated to respond and she sets the court date for temporary orders. If you you can delay… you have the ball. Always remember this… you will not win her back by being generous in the settlement or process. You will seem weak to her and she will make fun of you. Her lawyers will ask for more than you offer anyway. Divorce is a business deal. Make it one. No emotion. Be a good man. Split things so you would take either side and be happy. Nothing you do in the divorce process will influence her to notice your changes faster than being strong and standing up gently and fairly for yourself. Be nice but be firm. “No, I can’t accept that” instead of “what are you? crazy… you are killing me”. be the man you look in the mirror at and smile. Your kids will see the truth in time. It is sad when they do… that is their mom… No one wins in divorce. Work on you, trust in Jesus, Before you have any conversation with her anytime about anything, call someone (not your kids)_ and run through it… choose how you react. Pause. Remember, your goal is to get your wife back. Never forget that. But you want a faithful wife… you deserve that. Sure you own part of the reason for her actions… but you are fixing that starting tonight. Remember…I, me I,not She, her if only… It doesn’t change anything. You can only change you. for me that took my full attention…May you feel the arms of Christ around you tonight. He is with you. He wants to share this journey with you. Let Him. Give up the pain. DO not take it back. God loves you. Sometimes it is not about you… it is about people watching you… or learning from you…be a good man… for you. God Bless you. You are a great Dad. You are a faithful Catholic. You are wanting to save your marriage when others would call you crazy (I am just as crazy…). God is good all the time. Trust him. Trust his will. Sorry for going on so long. I asked the Holy Spirit to give me what you needed to hear tonight… hope I got it right… Best today, better tomorrow my friend. God has a plan for both of us. I also hope we get credit for purgatory time for our adventures… I’ll be mad if we don’t…

Lots of good advice in Hydin’s split post, but I disagree with that HH must have done something to drive his wife into the literal or figurative arms of another. It is one thing to feel empathy for another human being, even one who has grievously wronged us, but nothing in HH’s posts suggests that he’s done anything to legitimize or in any way excuse his wife’s actions. Apologizing for and/or taking blame for things that are not one’s fault is unhealthy self-immolation.