I Need Help with Poem of the Man-God

[childofmary1143]

Father Mitch’s argument against Poem of the Man-God has some things that I am curious about.

He says The four Gospels do not give a biography of Jesus–or of anyone else in His life.

Now I went to the dictionary and they define the word biography as an account of someone’s life.

Now it can be said that biographies are historical right?

So is Father Mitch saying that Gospels of Matthew and John who were witnesses to the life of Jesus aren’t historical?

I think he is wrong on that.

 

[Liz101]

First Maria Valtorta shows us that screwdrivers existed 2,000 years ago, and its proved true 62 years later that they did. An Archeologist shows that she knew correct names of towns and villages that were not discovered till after her death. Now this! What an incredible verification of authenticity of the Poem! Maria Valtorta actually did hear the word Jehovah! Another Valtorta major contention spirals down in flames! Are there any real ones left now?

 

[adrift]

Why would the Holy Office go through the whole procedure of abolishing the index if it meant nothing to do so? It doesn’t make sense.

As pointed out in posting #289, the Index was abolished for a good reason, because no one in their right mind could possibly take it seriously any longer.

It must be noted that the Index was not done away with because it is no longer needed. It was forced to dissolve because of the invention of the computer, and the change from thousands of books to millions of books. There was and is no way Rome can keep up with the proliferation of Religious material today.

jloughnan.tripod.com/valtmedj.htm

 

[adrift]

Father Mitch’s argument against Poem of the Man-God has some things that I am curious about.

He says The four Gospels do not give a biography of Jesus–or of anyone else in His life.

Now I went to the dictionary and they define the word biography as an account of someone’s life.

Now it can be said that biographies are historical right?

So is Father Mitch saying that Gospels of Matthew and John who were witnesses to the life of Jesus aren’t historical?

I think he is wrong on that.

a biography develops a complex analysis of personality, highlighting different aspects of it and including intimate details of experiences. A biography is more than a list of impersonal facts like birth, education, work, relationships and death. It also delves into the emotions of experiencing such events.
That is why the Gospels are not a biography of Jesus although they contain biographical events they are not written to be a biography

I don’t know how you leaped to the conclusion that Father that he was claiming they weren’t historical?

 

[Liz101]

The list was abolished because of the invention of the computer? You really made my day!!! That is the most humorous thing I’ve heard in years!!! I can’t even believe you even put that up!!! You have to be kidding!!!

 

[adrift]

screwdrivers existed 2,000

In 1744, the flat-bladed bit for the carpenter’s brace was invented, the precursor to the first simple screwdriver. Handheld screwdrivers first appeared after 1800.

When you make a statement you should back it up.

inventors.about.com/od/sstartinventions/a/screwdriver.htm

A

fter the Exile, the Jews developed so great a respect for the sacred name, that the ordinary person never would pronounce it. Instead he would say Adonai, Lord. When the Masoretes centuries later invented the vowel points, they used the points for Adonai with the consonants for Yahweh, so no one by forgetting would pronounce the sacred name. To answer your question, the word does actually come out as Jehovah, even as far back as two thousand years ago."

Thank you for verifying that Mary being a pious Jew would not pronounce it.

It doesn’t matter though the one thing that you cannot dispute is that the Church calls this fiction and fiction it is.

 

[adrift]

The list was abolished because of the invention of the computer? You really made my day!!! That is the most humorous thing I’ve heard in years!!! I can’t even believe you even put that up!!! You have to be kidding!!!

I thought it was humorous that the first statement was made but I don’t see why you find it so?
Printers
In 1953, the first high-speed printer was developed by Remington-Rand for use on the Univac computer. I imagined this allowed the printing of books to become more prolific going from thousands of books to millions it was impractical to try to keep up the list.

 

[Love4Mary2]

I think I know why she found it funny. They abrogated the index because of the Univac? Wasn’t that thing the size of a soccer field? And only used for basic math?

Anyhow, she already backed up the screwdriver thing, you must have forgotten a previous posting by Liz101. There was some kind of Roman device that was very recently discovered that had tiny screws holding gears on it. It dated back well to before the times of Jesus. I think the idea is: where there are screws, there must have been screwdrivers.

What the Rabbi was trying to explain is that they used pseudonyms in ordinary speech in respect of the Third Commandment in the Decalogue, which prohibits the use of God’s name in vain. The pseudonym commonly used for God’s name was compiled from vowel points for Adonai with the consonants for Yahweh, which resulted in a hybrid safe word, that in Hebrew phonetically sounded just like the word Jehovah.

The sentence you were referring to is: “I do not understand the words as they are spoken in Hebrew. But as now and again She repeats “Jehovah” I realize that it is a sacred song, perhaps a psalm.”

 

[adrift]

You are mistaken the safe word was according to what you posted was

Adonai, Lord.

Jehovah (Yahweh) was the proper name of God in the Old Testament. newadvent.org/cathen/08329a.htm

Anyhow, she already backed up the screwdriver thing, you must have forgotten a previous posting by Liz101. There was some kind of Roman device that was very recently discovered that had tiny screws holding gears on it. It dated back well to before the times of Jesus. I think the idea is: where there are screws, there must have been screwdrivers.

I didn’t forget about it. As I said she makes statements without any collaborating evidence. As my link said the screwdriver wasn’t invented until 1744.

As for the computer, I think you are under the erroneous assumption that there were no computers. I was just pointing out that printers were starting to be used on computers. Computers were starting to be used in industry. IBM and Univac were competing against each other.
computerhistory.org/timeline/

Although this all very fascinating, the bottom line is that this book the Church says is fiction.

 

[Eliza10]

jloughnan.tripod.com/critique.htm.

Adrift, did you LOOK at this site? I guess you believe this stuff, if you actualy did look at it. Its laughable. Its the site of the Bart Brewer style Valtorta-detractors! So its *pretty ridiculous! *

I know that the moral force of the index exist because the present Pope says it does. The Church has said not to read it. .

Because it was on the now-abolished Index? Does that mean you also avoid Galileo, and Victor Hugo? (I guess you won’t be watching “Les Miserables”!)

Those who do knowing that the Church says not to are disobedient. They are substituting the Church’s judgment for their own. All the great Saints submitted to Church authority even when they were right. I don’t claim authority. I submit to it.

Its statements like this that keep this thread so long.

We are disobedient, we are not submitting to the Church’s Authority, but *you *are.

So you judge.

Recently I was reading a statement of Jesus (in The Poem) to Gamaliel. He said that Gamaliel had too much “science”, and not enough faith, and not enough humility.

I think that could be said of some of the strident Valtorta detractors on this thread.

Love4Mary2 had a point when she said there was love for the letter of the law, but not the spirit of the law.

There is something off-balance with certain writers here who will keep this thread going into perpetuity. They have nothing new to learn of Valtorta - they already know everything. No arguments in favor will persuade them in the least. Its simply black and white to them.

I have seen the black and white thinking also in others since I have come into the Church. They love the authority of the Church (and they are authorities on the authority!), but they don’t love the people of the Church. At least, in their rigidity, I keep seeing the lack of love. There is a harsh judgement towards others who do not practice exactly as they prioritize as being the correct way to be Catholic. Perhaps they are often right; the people they scourge with their righteousness might be wrong in many instances.

But maybe the wrong people, in their hearts, were following the spirit of the law.

Maybe, one day, when the only real and True Judge judges, those in such gross error according to the law will “white”, and their judgers, “black”. Because only God knows the heart.

I see a real divide in the Church because of the polarizing judgments of those who are “doing it right”, who are so angry with those who are not. And it is wounding the Church of Jesus Christ, His beloved Church, His bride, for whom He shed tears that they would not divide.

So what do you think, Love4Mary2 and other Valtorta supporters, like myself? Is there ever any end to this thread?

So many of the arguments against the writings remind me of the Fundamentalist fury against Catholicism. This thread is like Deja Vous for that, for me. There are some of those who will never be convinced, because more than anything, they do not want to be convinced. They already know! And they condemn you for your beliefs which oppose theirs.

This thread reminds me of that so much.

And I know with those, you just have to give up sometimes. And go instead to hearts that are open to truth.

Thats the best I can come up with after contemplating this thread for a few days. I am willing to have stanima in the arguement, but, I have the feeling its all for naught. That makes my willingness wan.

 

[adrift]

We are disobedient, we are not submitting to the Church’s Authority, but you are.

So you judge.

I think it is quite sad that you have made these remarks. You don’t substantiate anything. Are you saying that the Church has approved this book and said that it is not fiction? Instead of addressing that you attack and I am sorry for that. I have prayed for you and myself that I do not lead you astray. The fact remains that the Church says it is fiction. I can’t get away from that. I cannot understand others who ignore that basic fact. I am not sure you are correct that those works you mentioned were still on the index. I know that Galileo’s work had been removed from being banned. I do not know about the other work you mentioned but yes if the Church says that it is not good for me to read. I would not read it. The Church has list of movies and I pay attention when they say a movie is not good for my soul. Why wouldn’t I listen to the Church since I believe is Jesus who speaks through it?

 

[Michael_Francis]

Thanks to those who contributed.
This thread is now closed.