I need some answers.

[malou1]

Pray to Saints and Mama Mary? My personal opinion is this: We Catholics are honoring and venerating them only. We venerate for their intercession because they are Holy and I believed Holy people are very close to God and God will not answer them in vain. Just like asking something from our Daddy and if we think it is hard for him to say Yes then we will course it through our Mommy coz our Daddy can’t say no to Mommy if Mommy says it so right? God Bless!!!

 

[Lord_of_Friends]

It sounds like lutheranism is your thing. Those are some of the main reasons Martin Luther went away from the catholic church. He would most definitely agree with your questioning.

 

[Starrsmother]

I have been a Catholic all my life, but there have been some questions regarding the faith that have troubled me lately.

1. How can Catholics say that we believe in God’s grace when we believe that one goes to Heaven or Hell based on whether or not they died in a state of mortal sin? That seems to teach a works-based salvation, not a faith-based salvation. See John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-9.
2. Where in the Bible does it say that we are not to take Holy Communion if we are in a state of unrepented mortal sin? Remember, if it’s not in the Bible, then it’s not doctrine.
3. Why do Catholics confess to a priest, when we should be confessing to God? The Bible says that only Jesus Christ is our mediator with God.
4. Where in the Bible is Purgatory mentioned?
5. How is not idolatry to pray to the Virgin Mary and the saints? Again, the Bible says that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to our Heavenly Father. Also, how are the statute, crucifixes, rosaries, etc. not forbidden graven images?
6. Where in the Bible does it say that things like masturbation, cohabitation, etc. are sins? I can’t seem to find any references to these. In fact, I can’t seem to find any distinction between venial and mortal sin. James 2:10 actually seems to teach AGAINST the venial vs. moral sin doctrine.

P.S.
I took Holy Communion today even though I had been at a bar last night and got a little drunk. The reasons why I didn’t abstain was because I couldn’t find a definitive answer as to whether I had committed a mortal sin, or merely a venial sin, or if I had even sinned at all.

Second P.S.
Can a non-Catholic be saved? It seems to me that any Christian who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and doesn’t die in a state of mortal sin will be saved.

Third P.S.
Can you be considered “born-again” as a Catholic? I do feel that I had a spiritual reawakening that caused me to take the Church seriously. Does that count as being “born-again”?

In short, I agree with the post above that questions whether or not you are actually a Catholic or are infact a protestant. If you are a Catholic, you truly need to immediately find and take a catechism class as you obviously do not know much of anything about what the Catholic church teaches. What you expound is very typical protestant–not Catholic–theology. Your FIRST mistake is saying that if it isn’t in the Bible, it isn’t true. The bible is one–but not the only-- collection of historical teachings and traditions that we base the faith on–some of your issues are with interpretation of scripture–but others basically show a complete lack of understanding as to what the faith teaches period. Catholics don’t claim that if it isn’t in the bible it isn’t true–that’s a protestant “thing”. AND if you are actually a Catholic, you should know that–as well as why we ask for Mary to pray for us–but do not worship her.

 

[Neofight]

Yes! Much harder… In fact isn’t it ironic so many of them go on and on about God’s grace, but refuse to accept it and go so far as to deny that it’s freely available to anyone who truly believes in the teachings of our Lord.

Really? Much harder? I think when God offers salvation to anyone, it is never “hard” for him!

 

[petra22]

Where in the bible does it say that if it’s not in the bible then it’s not doctrine?

Made me smile. Never thought of that one!

 

[Misplaced_Book]

Locoz,

You will not find your answers on an internet forum. Please talk to your priest, and spend some time in prayer.

God be with you.

 

[stelline]

FreakyLocz14,
I suggest speaking with a parish priest and visiting Catholic.com for lots of great info on the Faith and apologetic materials. Books are a great resource and can be fun to read too! I just started re-reading “Surprised By Truth” by Patrick Madrid for some light, enjoyable reading and the stories are full of people in the same boat as you–questioning elements of the Catholic faith and finding understanding on the topics that were puzzling them.

I can see from your original post that you have been heavily influenced by the Protestant notion that the Bible is the ONLY source of knowledge of God’s teachings. I suggest you read “Scripture Alone?” by Joel Peters. It is a very small, short book that shows how Sola Scriptura is a self-refuting doctrine.

I will pray for you, and your grandfather.

 

[phil19034]

In short, I agree with the post above that questions whether or not you are actually a Catholic or are infact a protestant. If you are a Catholic, you truly need to immediately find and take a catechism class as you obviously do not know much of anything about what the Catholic church teaches. What you expound is very typical protestant–not Catholic–theology. Your FIRST mistake is saying that if it isn’t in the Bible, it isn’t true. The bible is one–but not the only-- collection of historical teachings and traditions that we base the faith on–some of your issues are with interpretation of scripture–but others basically show a complete lack of understanding as to what the faith teaches period. Catholics don’t claim that if it isn’t in the bible it isn’t true–that’s a protestant “thing”. AND if you are actually a Catholic, you should know that–as well as why we ask for Mary to pray for us–but do not worship her.

In defense of the OP, there are lots of young Catholics who do not receive a solid education in terms of Faith.

And the OP has a Protestant grandfather who I’m sure loves. When Grandpa’s talk, grandsons listen

God bless

 

[Cathoholic]

FreakyLocz14, you asked (bold mine):

1. How can Catholics say that we believe in God’s grace when we believe that one goes to Heaven or Hell based on whether or not they died in a state of mortal sin? That seems to teach a works-based salvation, not a faith-based salvation. See John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-9.

In a state of grace, it’s NOT our works but GOD at WORK in us. But we can reject this GRACE.

The Church has always understood this. That’s WHY St. Augustine matter of factly said over 1000 years before Protestantism was invented:

“You are glorified in the assembly of your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits you are crowning your own gifts.”

Grace is MORE than God’s favor.

This concept of God at work in us—this notion of “Grace Works”—is seen below.

PHILIPPIANS 2:12-13 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

FreakyLocz14, has any Protestant televangelist ever told you to “work out your salvation” not because you can do it on your OWN but because GOD is AT WORK IN YOU?

Look and see what these Bible verses teach.

PHILIPPIANS 4:13 13 **I can do all things **in him who strengthens me.

God doesn’t “strengthen me” to go lift a 900 lb weight, but God DOES “strengthen me” to “work out my salvation”. The BIBLE says so.

GALATIANS 2:20 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

FreakyLocz14. Do the televangelists EVER teach you concerning your good works, “it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me”?

Ask Protestant challengers WHY Jesus lives IN YOU!

Is Jesus merely “camping out” in you?

This “works righteousness” objection of theirs directed against the Catholic Church is a phony concept. Don’t be fooled by it.

EPHESIANS 3:20-21 20 Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.

FreakyLocz14. Do you see this “power” as coming from Jesus Christ (grace works)?

Or are you going to let televangelists teach you, "those Catholics think they get to be saved by their own mere works" (when you know fully well from reading other posts here and the quotes of Trent [which are also quoted elsewhere on this thread] that the Church condemns that view)?

HEBREWS 13:20a, 21 “Now may the God of peace . . . . equip you with everything good that you may do His will, working in you that which is pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

FreakyLocz14. Do ANY of these Protestant televangelists teach that these “works” that we say are necessary come “through Jesus Christ” or do they insist: “All works are works righteousness. That’s why we are saved through faith ALONE!”

Have you ever asked a Protestant to show you ONE VERSE where it says we are saved by faith ALONE? Not verses that say we are saved apart from “works of Torah” or “works of law” such as “circumcision” but ONE VERSE that says: “We are justified by faith ALONE.”

Challenge these guys on that point FreakyLocz14. You are a Catholic! You have probably been Confirmed. FreakyLocz14 you have been given “no cowardly spirit” (see 2nd Timothy 1:7) so challenge these guys! Don’t wilt when these guys try to push this stuff on you.

Other verses that at least hint at the same thing include, Romans 8:8-11, 1st Thessalonians 2:13, Philippians 1:6, 1st Corinthians 9:1, 2nd Corinthians 6:1, 2nd Corinthians 9:8, John 9:4, and many others.

FreakyLocz14. If you are Catholic (and you say you are), you have a spiritual patrimony that is given to you that is unimaginable.

We need to give thanks to God for these unfathomable supernatural graces (graces including faith to be sure but also hope and charity).

Not a self-focused pseudo thanks as the tax collector who thought HIMSELF righteous on his own account in the parable that Jesus taught us in Luke 18 but like the OTHER tax collector Zaccheus who allowed God’s grace to work in and through himself to try to make amends for his sin (in Luke 19). And how did Jesus respond to THIS tax collector? . . .

. . . Zaccheus, today, salvation has come to your house!

You won’t get any of this from Protestants, least of all, televangelists.

You WILL get a lot of teachings promoting “Protestant Indulgences” (“Send your money to us here NOW and you will ‘be blessed by God’”).

Ask them if you MUST “repent”? Must you “confess with your lips” . . .? etc. etc.?

Why? I thought I was justified by faith ALONE?

They will always say: “Well we do good works BECAUSE of our faith.”

But ask them do they HAVE TO?

We as Catholics do good works because of our grace.

But our claim is Biblical. Theirs is man-made.

Why would St. Paul talk about being “saved” by “hope”?

Is “hope” optional to be saved?

ROMANS 8:24 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?

Go back and “challenge 'em” on their traditions of men FreakyLocz14. But live your faith too. Even when you are alone. ALLOW Jesus to be at work IN YOU. Jesus won’t force you FreakyLocz14.

 

[Cathoholic]

A few “short answers”:

1. Where in the Bible does it say . . . Remember, if it’s not in the Bible, then it’s not doctrine.

No I don’t remember this being taught anywhere except by Protestant tradition.

Possibly tomorrow I will try to show you where you do not approach Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament in a state of unbelief or mortal sin.

1. Why do Catholics confess to a priest, when we should be confessing to God? The Bible says that only Jesus Christ is our mediator with God.

The real question is HOW does Jesus continually mediate?

Up in Heaven ONLY or up in Heaven AND here upon earth in and through the Priest (and even in and through you and I in a secondary sense–although admittedly certainly not in the same way through you and I, as through the ministerial priest)?

1. Where in the Bible is Purgatory mentioned?

Where in the Bible is “Bible” mentioned?

Oh yeah it isn’t. BUT . . . the DOCTRINE of “The Bible” is there.

OK. That’s fair enough.

The DOCTRINE of Purgatory is there too but if you don’t know what “purgatory” is you’ll never see it. To try and show you this doctrine in the Bible seems almost completely fruitless unless you know what Purgatory is and is not first.

So you tell me what “Purgatory is” first, then I will answer your question on WHERE in the Bible Purgatory is mentioned (and it IS mentioned).

Or if you don’t know what Purgatory is (and isn’t) that’s OK too but I will just suggest you begin a thread on what Purgatory is and what Purgatory is NOT and address this first.

 

[Thomas_Peter]

I have been a Catholic all my life, but there have been some questions regarding the faith that have troubled me lately.

1. How can Catholics say that we believe in God’s grace when we believe that one goes to Heaven or Hell based on whether or not they died in a state of mortal sin? That seems to teach a works-based salvation, not a faith-based salvation. See John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-9.
2. Where in the Bible does it say that we are not to take Holy Communion if we are in a state of unrepented mortal sin? Remember, if it’s not in the Bible, then it’s not doctrine.
3. Why do Catholics confess to a priest, when we should be confessing to God? The Bible says that only Jesus Christ is our mediator with God.
4. Where in the Bible is Purgatory mentioned?
5. How is not idolatry to pray to the Virgin Mary and the saints? Again, the Bible says that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to our Heavenly Father. Also, how are the statute, crucifixes, rosaries, etc. not forbidden graven images?
6. Where in the Bible does it say that things like masturbation, cohabitation, etc. are sins? I can’t seem to find any references to these. In fact, I can’t seem to find any distinction between venial and mortal sin. James 2:10 actually seems to teach AGAINST the venial vs. moral sin doctrine.

P.S.
I took Holy Communion today even though I had been at a bar last night and got a little drunk. The reasons why I didn’t abstain was because I couldn’t find a definitive answer as to whether I had committed a mortal sin, or merely a venial sin, or if I had even sinned at all.

Second P.S.
Can a non-Catholic be saved? It seems to me that any Christian who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and doesn’t die in a state of mortal sin will be saved.

Third P.S.
Can you be considered “born-again” as a Catholic? I do feel that I had a spiritual reawakening that caused me to take the Church seriously. Does that count as being “born-again”?

We have got to do a better job Catechizing people. I learned the answers to all of these about halfway through catechism.:banghead:

 

[FreakyLocz14]

We have got to do a better job Catechizing people. I learned the answers to all of these about halfway through catechism.:banghead:

I don’t recall ever being taught the answers to these questions. I remember being taught the 10 Commandments and what the Eucharist is, but I don’t even recall ever being taught to abstain from taking the Blessed Sacrament while in a state of unrepented mortal sin. I also don’t ever recall being taught why Tradition is equally important than the Scriptures, the distinction between venial and mortal sin, Confession, what is required for salvation, etc.

 

[phil19034]

I don’t recall ever being taught the answers to these questions. I remember being taught the 10 Commandments and what the Eucharist is, but I don’t even recall ever being taught to abstain from taking the Blessed Sacrament while in a state of unrepented mortal sin. I also don’t ever recall being taught why Tradition is equally important than the Scriptures, the distinction between venial and mortal sin, Confession, what is required for salvation, etc.

I think that was Thomas Peter’s point. I was never taught those things either. Some parish’s are terrible at teaching about faith. Historicly, children would learn from their parents. When I took CCD, they assumed that I was learning how to be a good Catholic at home. They spent all their time on some bible lessons, “what would Jesus do? questions,” learning prayers, Mass responses, & stuff about some of the Saints.

There was little true Catechizing, because it was assumed that you were getting that at home. CCD was the “gravy” for your “Thanksgiving turkey.”

Personally, I think CCD, CFF, PREP (whatever program), should be taught more like RCIA. I also think that during the year of Confirmation, all candidates should be trained/retrained with RCIA Catechizing program. This would make sure everyone that everyone getting Confirmed receives the same amount of Catechizing.

I feel that in general, RCIA Candidates receive more Catechizing than most cradle-Catholic Candidates. We need to fix this.

Too many parents simply are not well Catechized themselves. How can we expect them to do a good job Catechizing their children if no one Catechized them?

God Bless.

 

[Heart_Foam]

I also don’t ever recall being taught why Tradition is equally important than the Scriptures, the distinction between venial and mortal sin, Confession, what is required for salvation, etc.

Well, quite. There isn’t a distinction between mortal and venial sin in Scripture, and anyone who quotes the verse about the unforgivable sin needs to think before they send that reply. Because even in Catholicism, mortal sin is forgivable. There is no mortal/venial distinction in the Bible. There may be differences in punishment, but Bible does not state that some sins are worthy of eternal death whereas others are not. The wages of sin is death. All sin. The way to pay for your sins is to die. And to make your payment even vaguely satisfactory to a perfectly just and holy God, you would have to be perfect when you die. But you say, “that’s unreasonable - if that’s the price of sin we’re all doomed because no one can be perfect”. And that’s why God sent his Son. Because humans by our very nature cannot pay for our sins. The wages of sin is not penance. It undermines the gospel. And before any Catholic reads this and tells me “but Stephen, there was penance in the early church” - yes there was, but it was done for vastly different reasons, and could only be done once in a lifetime.

 

[Heart_Foam]

May I ask if, in your search for answers, you have had a tangible, accessible, infallible guide?

I’m always curious when the discussion turn to “oh he/she/you/they weren’t properly catechised”, “if only catechism was better”. If Roman Catholicism is true, shouldn’t that truth be self-evident? Would a Catholic be happy for “indoctrination” to be used as a synonym? If not, why not?

 

[thenobes]

Well, quite. There isn’t a distinction between mortal and venial sin in Scripture, and anyone who quotes the verse about the unforgivable sin needs to think before they send that reply.

No need to invoke the “unforgiveable sin” (impenitence) verses. Instead we see:

1 John 5 16-17

“16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death…”

So some sin leads to death, some not.

Because even in Catholicism, mortal sin is forgivable. There is no mortal/venial distinction in the Bible.

See above. Mortal sin is forgivable, but man must respond to the Holy Spirit’s movement of him to repentance (and subsequently to sacramental confession).

There may be differences in punishment, but Bible does not state that some sins are worthy of eternal death whereas others are not.

Jesus says that those who break the least of His commandments and teach others to do so will be least in the kingdom of Heaven.

Suppose they break a greater than the least. There is no lower place in Heaven to go, so the must get kicked out altogether.

The wages of sin is death. All sin. The way to pay for your sins is to die. And to make your payment even vaguely satisfactory to a perfectly just and holy God, you would have to be perfect when you die.

Of course, if one is IN CHRIST, he has been given Christ’s perfect obedience as gift to give to the Father, and so is acceptable to the Father. (“I desire obedience, not sacrifice”) Further, any (name removed by moderator)erfection left in the person’s soul is removed in Purgatory.

But you say, “that’s unreasonable - if that’s the price of sin we’re all doomed because no one can be perfect”. And that’s why God sent his Son. Because humans by our very nature cannot pay for our sins. The wages of sin is not penance.

You misunderstand penance. It is an attempt to purify oneself of imperfection produced in the soul by sinning. The sin is alreday forgiven in Confession, before the penance is ever undertaken.

It undermines the gospel. And before any Catholic reads this and tells me “but Stephen, there was penance in the early church” - yes there was, but it was done for vastly different reasons, and could only be done once in a lifetime.

The Church set the disciplines for Confession back then, and they can set it as they see fit in the present era as well.

peace
steve

 

[Randy_Carson]

May I ask if, in your search for answers, you have had a tangible, accessible, infallible guide?

I’m always curious when the discussion turn to “oh he/she/you/they weren’t properly catechised”, “if only catechism was better”. If Roman Catholicism is true, shouldn’t that truth be self-evident? Would a Catholic be happy for “indoctrination” to be used as a synonym? If not, why not?

The problem is that American seminaries were VERY liberal in the 60’s and a LOT of experimentation took place in the Church. The fruit has proven to be of poor quality.

 

[bmonk]

Others have answered in some length, so I can cherry-pick!

1. Mortal sin is a very serious sin–it involves serious matter, plus knowledge that you are acting in sin, and consent of the will. As such, we believe, it represents a break in the relationship with God. If you die in such a state, rejecting God, God will accept your apparent choice and not save you. But more to the point–why when you realized your sin did you not repent and show that you repented by confessing your sin? That’s all it takes.

Regarding mortal sin, 1 John 5:17 speaks of sin that is deadly (mortal) and sin that is not.

I cannot tell for sure, but getting a little drunk is probably not a mortal sin. Unless you drink to excess, or drink away money that should support your family.

1. Confession to a priest is confession to God–the priest “takes the place of Christ” and represents the Christian community as well. It is only, strictly speaking, required for mortal sins, but is advantageous for others as well. It is also a chance to get the advice on how to avoid sin in the future.

Confession is a part of human nature–how many people confess to strangers on an airplane, or to a bartender? One advantage of confession to a priest is the iron-clad legal protection–and the even stronger moral protection–against the priest using that knowledge against you. That is precisely so that you will be free to make a full and honest confession.

1. Jesus is the only way to the Father–but that does not mean that others cannot also help. St. Paul often speaks of being a co-worker in the work of salvation. Part of the Good News (Gospel) is that we have been given a share in continuing the work of salvation–and this includes the saints.

You may be able to climb a mountain without ropes, pitons, and all the other equipment. It is safer and far quicker to use them when they are available.

1. Yes, a non-Catholic can be saved–but to deny yourself some of the clarity, fullness and support of the Church is to make it harder for yourself. (See the paragraph just above.)
2. Can you be “born again” as a Catholic?
   In one sense, no–baptism, when you become Catholic, is when you are also born again, or born from above (See John 3:3-5). And you cannot be re-baptized. If you are not yet baptized, it is not a rebaptism. And if you are baptized, you already have the seal of the Spirit, and cannot receive it again.

In another sense, you can allow the grace of God to flow through you more fully. In that sense, your baptism can “come alive” in you. It may feel as though you have been born again, but that is just your own feeling, not a true state of affairs.

 

[bmonk]

I think that was Thomas Peter’s point. I was never taught those things either. Some parish’s are terrible at teaching about faith. Historically, children would learn from their parents. When I took CCD, they assumed that I was learning how to be a good Catholic at home. They spent all their time on some bible lessons, “what would Jesus do? questions,” learning prayers, Mass responses, & stuff about some of the Saints.

There was little true Catechizing, because it was assumed that you were getting that at home. CCD was the “gravy” for your “Thanksgiving turkey.”

Personally, I think CCD, CFF, PREP (whatever program), should be taught more like RCIA. I also think that during the year of Confirmation, all candidates should be trained/retrained with RCIA Catechizing program. This would make sure everyone that everyone getting Confirmed receives the same amount of Catechizing.

I feel that in general, RCIA Candidates receive more Catechizing than most cradle-Catholic Candidates. We need to fix this.

Too many parents simply are not well Catechized themselves. How can we expect them to do a good job Catechizing their children if no one Catechized them?

God Bless.

There is also the attitude of many–children and parents alike–that these things don’t really matter, that it’s just “good enough” to go through the motions, that because you don’t get a grade, not learning about the faith doesn’t count. And so they never make the effort to learn.

 

[bmonk]

Locoz, You raised fair questions. I’ve asked them too. If you send me a PM I will discuss them with you. But here I will only say this. We are saved by grace through Jesus sacrifice for us. None of us deserve this. And mankind gets worse all the time. None of us can be so good that we would deserve being saved and brought to Heaven. You can’t get saved by works, but your works do count. I’m not sure how. There are many opinions and none are without some fault. But James said it best. I noticed you quoted him, and that’s good. He said he’d show the people his faith through his works. You need both, faith in God, and good works which means obeying God’s laws.

1. Mankind is not necessarily getting worse all the time–some are getting better through faith and living the Gospel.
2. You cannot get saved through works, but works do count. The Catholic explanation is: works without grace cannot save you. We rely on God’s grace, and only on grace, for salvation. BUT: once saved, your works can be meritorious. They can gain you special distinctions in heaven–which is why we celebrate various categories of saints, such as martyrs. They can be works of “supererogation,” not required, but chosen and offered out of love.
3. As James said, it is not faith alone that saves us–faith is not faith if it never bears fruit in good works. It is only in faith, however, that works can be good.